Temple Crisis Hotline

Or offer advice....

I mean responsible advice...

My favorite maxim is "knowing when not to act"...

Or in this case, "don't over reach"....

steamboat28 wrote: I don't say this to suggest that anyone here is qualified (at all). In fact, I think it's a very helpful, honest, and important step to admit that we are almost certainly completely unqualified. Without admitting that, we presume that we can handle what's thrown at us. Rather, I say this to suggest that there are many problems that we, collectively, are qualified to help with--at least in the initial, emergent stages. Solace from trusted friends and fellow pathwalkers can be just what is needed to help until more professional aid can be summoned.

Very well put, Steamboat. I agree. I think we can listen and help out with things that do not require legal counsel or serious professional aid. And this is basically what I was trying to say. We can fix or help with everything, but we can help with quite a bit.

Jestor wrote:

Or offer advice....

I mean responsible advice...

My favorite maxim is "knowing when not to act"...

Or in this case, "don't over reach"....

This is where I believe people need to know their limits. If you've never experienced an issue or had experience with something that someone is asking you about, how can you offer advice? That is like asking someone how to cook a Turkey when they've only ever cooked raman noodles. They would have no clue. You should only seek advice from someone that has experience with what you are wanting to know.

Rickie The Grey wrote: I think it's a bit much to think this place can handle a crises hot line. Look at how some discussion go. No insult or offence intended. People lives could be at stake. Ignorance is not bliss. On the other hand I also think clergy would feel the desire to help those in need.

Helping people is good. People need to know their limits.

This probably doesn't help much but if in doubt error on the cautious. Ask yourself if you had a good friend of family member in crises where would you send them. Here?

Honestly, I think it is dangerous and irresponsible to have a crisis hotline. People coming to us in a crisis would need immediate attention and who among us has the time to drop everything for every crisis that comes in? I'm not saying it's impossible, but there's so much we haven't accounted for.

What I would like to say is that I think having a place where anyone, at any time can send a message anonymously and give voice to secret shames, private fears, and problems they can't talk to usual suspects about is a great idea. We would probably have to have a disclaimer that says, "By submitting a message, you acknowledge that you understand this is not a medical, psychological/psychiatric, or other professional therapy service. The readers of submissions are clergy who work on a volunteer basis."

We can offer spiritual counseling and peer group therapy. For situations where someone is in an immediate crisis they need to contact a properly staffed and trained hotline. Members interested in helping with urgent can't wait situations should train and volunteer at these organizations. A link to an emergency directory on the front page is a good idea.

Of course....

Although we are calling it a "hotline", we are talking about using email, how "hot" can it be?

Perhaps a name change is in order.... lol...

Yes, Jestor -- a name change is definitely in order. To me, "hotline" doesn't mean a medical (mental health or otherwise) or technical problem. To me, I see two red phones - one in Moscow and the other in Washington D.C. - and a whole lot of nuclear weapons pointed at each ...

I remember the hotline when it came about and didn't really think much of it at all ... but then I don't lump everything people can feel into some "being sick" category either. A few months ago, this came up again over the Confession, Clerical Counselling ; all of the arguments are the same : who's qualified ? We have only to present found "help" to be a neutral enough term that we don't get accused of promoting suicide through 'un-qualified bogus psychic surgeries' or hocus-pocus.

People aren't comfortable talking to Clergy. Are they really that comfortable talking to a psychologist/psychiatrist/life coach ? It seems to me that if someone has something on their mind that they need to talk about "right now", it is because that person is already uncomfortable. It isn't a matter of who they talk to, they just need someone's attention. They don't need someone to give them the solution to their problems, they need someone to say "I understand" (whether one does or not).

Has anyone ever had a grand-mother ? Or a best friend ? These people we feel pretty comfortable talking to ; we can tell them about anything. And we (might) listen when they respond to whatever they respond. Often grand-mothers respond with warm biscuits and a warmer smile and best friends respond in best friend ways, but the point here is that neither my grand-mother nor my best friend are "qualified" to listen to my problems. They are just people that I can bitch at when I need to do. Nor is their feedback going to fix the problems. They are just "there", they are sounding boards, they are avenues of expression where I'm not afraid of being judged or under the pressure of having to make sense.

Our "talks" are quite a bit like that. In the TotJO Clergy, we study how to listen to people in an understanding way, of perhaps not responding at all except by "I understand".

So, no -- we are not going to all go get trained as clinical psychologists and we are not going to go offering magical solutions to all of the woes of the human condition. But we can listen to people who are emotional and do not make sense without requiring them to and without judging (or telling them that they make no sense).

I am not going to publicise my credentials to listen to someone any more for someone coming to me to get things off their chest in the Temple any more than I already do for people I know (this happens frequently) or strangers at busstops and in cafés. My biggest "credential" is just that I'm there and have ears.

Alexandre Orion wrote:
People aren't comfortable talking to Clergy. Are they really that comfortable talking to a psychologist/psychiatrist/life coach ?

Just to be pedantic, that would better read as "psychologist/psychiatrist/counseling therapist. While most life coaches are trained in one or more of the other fields, life coaching is NOT crisis or trauma resolution.

But since you ask, people certainly seem comfortable.

I don't like this idea as I understand it, while people here can help others just by listening a lot of the time in my experience because they are helping based on their own experiences they are starting of with preconceived ideas of what the other person feels or needs to hear. They already have an idea of what works.
People don't actively listen and it causes more problems. Your not counsellors or trained and in a hotline situation more damage than good could be done.
Good intentions are all very well but I think having maybe a list of useful helpline numbers such as in the UK the Samaritans , rape crisis, and others maybe displayed somewhere on site would be better.
A counsellor is trained to see what is happening not from there own experiences (though they are helpful) but from a nuetural standpoint. And trained to offer advice, even in passing the person on to other professionals. They have a team to back them up and resources at their disposal. None of which we have here.

On the issue of people being uncomfortable talking to the clergy, I'm sorry but I think you do that to yourselves. There is training on how to be available and how to talk to people in a manner that helps create a safe comfortable environment. Which again we don't have.
Help as a friend is always a good thing, but as is not butting in when people don't ask for your help.
It's a fine line and sometimes how you initially ask if someone needs help could be improved.

Well, perhaps ...

We're not saying don't ring up or talk to anyone else. If we are really all that wretched, then just don't come talk to us. Talk to whoever you want to. Or don't ...

But please stop telling me that I'm not qualified to listen to other people. That is what I've been doing for much of my life already. And it really doesn't matter what you think of my qualifications ; I already have a good reputation for listening well and responding with at least enough to know that I've actually listened to what thy were saying (as opposed, say, to thinking about my shopping list during it all ...)

It all boils down to who wants to talk to whom about what. If you (no one in particular here -- you generally) do not feel us qualified to listen to you, then don't come to us with things. But please don't tell us that we can't listen to others. That would be pretty pretentious ...

The solution to that is pretty simple ...

I would think a few of us here have had training of some kind .. I had training by the samaritans when I was 18 so I could help the younger kids. Not saying I want to be the person on the end of the 'hotline' but not everyone who's good at it will have a piece of paper to say so.

I'm not saying your not qualified to listen, as a friend or because of life experiences, what I am saying is that as this thread is about a hotline and in my experience a hotline is for emergencys then Real qualifications may be needed. Experts outside of someone that is just a good listener.

My personal opinion about someone's skills are just my personal experience.

I'm also not telling you that you can't listen to others, who they choose to speak to is there business. What I am saying is that they need to be aware that other options are available.

And I agree it is simple, choose wisely who you speak with. And if unsolicited advice is offered be aware that you don't have to take it.

I counsel as part of my work, with the understanding that I am not a mental health professional. I handle embarrassing questions and interpersonal disputes. But I and the rest of my department are very scrupulous about refer the patient to our Psych team if their issues cross a certain threshold. We are trained to identify that threshold. Also, the a member of the Psych staff is right upstairs.

Aside from not being trained to handle "the big stuff," we sometimes run into another issue. The patient will address their issues with a well-meaning person who cannot provide a actual treatment. This could include structured therapy, team-wide follow up, meds, hospitalization, etc. Sometimes this is deliberate, sometimes not. In either case, the patient will then stop seeking qualified help because they are already talking to 'someone.'
Without meaning to, staff may actually block therapeutic interventions.

That said, what if the hotline was given a disclaimer regarding what types of issues it can handle. I do it at work. "This is between us, sure, but if the problems get too big, I'm going to ask for help in helping you, okay?"

So, a name change and a very clear statement of intent.

But here is a big question. If someone writes you and says that they are a clear, capable threat to themselves or others (and you somehow have their contact info or can get it from them) are people willing to contact the local hospital?

:whistle:

So the word crisis is a little strong. OK pick a new word and give it a try.

If a disclaimer at the beginning of the thread says what we can/able and can not do I think would be nice. Any clergy can start with the disclaimer when contacted as well.

Providing a list of resources and additional contacts would be good too.

As a Church I feel there is a responsibility to help those in need both members and nonmembers. We just need to know our limits so we don't do more harm that good.

This is a work in progress so lets progress cautiously.

It's a very good thing to do.

Alexandre Orion wrote: So, no -- we are not going to all go get trained as clinical psychologists and we are not going to go offering magical solutions to all of the woes of the human condition. But we can listen to people who are emotional and do not make sense without requiring them to and without judging (or telling them that they make no sense).

It all boils down to who wants to talk to whom about what. If you (no one in particular here -- you generally) do not feel us qualified to listen to you, then don't come to us with things. But please don't tell us that we can't listen to others. That would be pretty pretentious ...

I think this is pretty key. We're not soliciting this sort of thing to become everyone's first stop for life crises, we just want to (re)open an avenue for them to have someone they trust. Many of the people at the Temple wound up here because other faiths have burned them, badly, and may feel more comfortable discussing things with another Jedi than hitting up another source for spiritual guidance. Many people here have, or have had, mental health issues they may not be able or willing to talk about with local friends and family, but know that many people here suffer those same conditions. In cases where the need is not immediately life-threatening, they may feel more comfortable talking to one of us--I know I feel better discussing depression with others who know what it's like--than someone else.

Nobody's saying we should be primary-care headshrinks. Literally nobody is saying that's a good idea. But sometimes you get in a pinch, whether it's spiritual or ethical or just a s**t day, and you want someone who will listen without throwing it back in your face later. That's a big deal in the right-now, and properly handled, it can be the first healthy step in real progress in whatever that trouble is.

[hr]

elizabeth wrote: I'm not saying your not qualified to listen, as a friend or because of life experiences, what I am saying is that as this thread is about a hotline and in my experience a hotline is for emergencys then Real qualifications may be needed.

Sometimes all people need right now is for someone to care. That's all we're trying to offer. We may be the only place some people can get it.

But, as Alex said, if this starts up and you don't like it--don't use it. Nobody's forcing anything here. That would be harsh and unethical.

[hr]

Cabur Senaar wrote: But here is a big question. If someone writes you and says that they are a clear, capable threat to themselves or others (and you somehow have their contact info or can get it from them) are people willing to contact the local hospital?

They would have to be, because failure to do so would not only endanger lives but also bring down legal wrath. This isn't a question. It should never be a question.

It's helpful if you can get them to call themselves, of course. There is a particular manner of listening where one, simply by asking questions of clarification and giving no actual advice, can help others realize what they need to do to seek professional help on their own. That would be ideal. If that doesn't work, however, it's kind of a necessity to handle it other ways.

[hr]

Ultimately, what's being discussed here is a spiritual/emotional first-response team for people who are willing to trust it voluntarily. By the very nature of that mission statement, we would have to be able to provide professional resources to those we help--we wouldn't have to be qualified psychologists, for example, but would have to be willing to help them locate such a professional. We don't have to know exactly how to professionally help so long as we can help them find someone that can.

The situation as it stands right now is that the Hotline is not currently checked by anyone in Clergy which is an obvious and serious oversight. This is perhaps due to the fact that the person who asked for its creation never actually checked (and consequently reminded us) of its existence.

If one may propose an alternative...

This (not currently up-to-date) article: http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/component/content/article/31-clergy/1978-who-to-go-to-for-help can be updated to include, as has been here suggested, links to various charitable organisations that deal specifically (such as immediate-response hotlines) with certain troubling situations. This article can also be made more prominent with a specific mention of it on the FaQ.

What do people think of that?

Providing resources = the best course of action right now.

As we learn to internalize those resources with proper training and such, we can redirect people here instead of outsourcing. Works for me!

I think that's a good idea Akkarin

Akkarin wrote: The situation as it stands right now is that the Hotline is not currently checked by anyone in Clergy which is an obvious and serious oversight. This is perhaps due to the fact that the person who asked for its creation never actually checked (and consequently reminded us) of its existence.

If one may propose an alternative...

This (not currently up-to-date) article: http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/component/content/article/31-clergy/1978-who-to-go-to-for-help can be updated to include, as has been here suggested, links to various charitable organisations that deal specifically (such as immediate-response hotlines) with certain troubling situations. This article can also be made more prominent with a specific mention of it on the FaQ.

What do people think of that?

Brilliant. Lets do that. We can at least be a source of comfort for our own and anyone that wanders in.

It's good.