How to Better Look After Newcomers?

It hasn't been the case for me. Both times it happened it was because they have been busy, which on one hand is understandable, but on the other hand.. it kinda hurt. Then I read someone else having the same issue, and that broke my heart.

Edit: I'm not gonna name names, cause they are both awesome people and had their own stuff going on. It's just an example, and I know that at least one other person had unanswered pm's, so it's why I'm mentioning it.

In one of our PM's Twigga made the following suggestion that I think quite good.

Twigga wrote:

I read your forum post about how to improve newcomers' experiences in TOTJO... The IP is quite "brains heavy", and perhaps there should be a goal setting aspect - that a Participant chooses a goal, and tries it out. That should give folks something to DO with their lives and bodies, so they feel involved; not just something to think about. They may end up writing about it on the forums, be it the "Jedi cookbook" thread, "hurricane martial arts", or a second language speaking group... Or they might build a relationship with their sponsor through it, making them feel more a part of the community.

I'd not focus not on success in attaining the goal, just on setting out to do something, focussing on doing something, and then reflecting on the outcome. It could be a letter writing campaign, meditation, exercising, not swearing, eating better, being nice to strangers, volunteering, spending less, fundraising to donate more to various charities, flossing, cleaning the bathroom, reducing waste, juggling... I really don't think it matters; it should just be something that motivates the participant. The duration should be appropriate to the task, but the length of time the IP programme lasts as a minimum is 60 days? Or it could be two 30 day projects/three 20 day projects... The key is in some reflection on how it went though - for most it will not be a perfect experience - failure will be common - but recognising the success mixed in is good; and how to build on the experience for the future...

Not being facetious, but here's a good place to start: Make your bed every morning when you wake up. Admiral William H. McRaven

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At the same time, I like the goal-setting concept, particularly in that it could help the IP feel like more is being accomplished than not. It can certainly drag at times, and it is rather "brain-heavy", which makes progress difficult to notice.

Simple goals (like making your bed) can provide something to build upon, and make one feel more involved from the outset.

Great thoughts Twigga...now, how to incorporate them into an implementable sense that does not pervert the rest of the IP as a whole? For perhaps, the brain-heavy nature of it is its actual essence anyway, and the entire point itself?

SamThift wrote: Not being facetious, but here's a good place to start: Make your bed every morning when you wake up. Admiral William H. McRaven

I saw this earlier in the week! It's a great point.

I was thinking about what you said earlier Sam, about finding it helpful to discuss the IP with other Novices as they're completing it too?

It reminded me that as I was nearing the end of my IP, some of the knights introduced an 'IP Workshop' in chat. I think they covered a different lesson each week? (my memory fails me) but basically anyone could jump in chat as these sessions were on and have a guided discussion about that particular lesson.

It obviously requires a lot of commitment from the knights running it, but that might be something worth bringing back?

Brick wrote:

SamThift wrote: Not being facetious, but here's a good place to start: Make your bed every morning when you wake up. Admiral William H. McRaven

I saw this earlier in the week! It's a great point.

I was thinking about what you said earlier Sam, about finding it helpful to discuss the IP with other Novices as they're completing it too?

It reminded me that as I was nearing the end of my IP, some of the knights introduced an 'IP Workshop' in chat. I think they covered a different lesson each week? (my memory fails me) but basically anyone could jump in chat as these sessions were on and have a guided discussion about that particular lesson.

It obviously requires a lot of commitment from the knights running it, but that might be something worth bringing back?

Certainly. I would always be game for it. I am feeling like I am "over the hump" in the IP now, at least wherein I have tackled some of those larger "read this" or "watch that" pieces which require some basic levels of committment to myself. Yet, I have not had too much in the sense of kicking my reflections back and forth with others. When I have, I quickly pick up on other parts of the message which others noticed that maybe I didn't, but also on the similar trends of thought that we may collect on a subject. So even now, feeling somewhat content in what I have put forth into my IP journal, I would hardly dismiss a "workshop" or "study group" opportunity, permitting life events allow me to participate.

In a sense, I suppose the threads available in the forum themselves are a good way to achieve this, but threads quickly get lost as more and more are added daily. The chat is a good place, and I have used it from time to time to bounce some thoughts, etc., off of others who have gone before me. That too is rather dependent upon availability to stars aligning to get the right people in the right place without the discussion splintering into 8,000 different ways.

I think I mentioned something in the "What would make the Temple Better" thread awhile back, to the effect of perhaps developing a little "Welcome Center" a tad more. Something with concrete, clear, concise, information to help present what the temple is, what it is not, and how to go about diving deeper without feeling like you are drowning.

I know the FAQ and Doctrine tabs do quite a bit of this...but even a quick "Welcome Video" or a nice pretty PowerPoint presentation, with some cute graphics and a simple list of the basic links a brand new member/guest might find MOST useful in starting along their way. Perhaps even a good solid tab at the top, easily recognizable and identifiable, where once inside one is not bombarded with "brain-heavy" information, but a clear understanding of how to create an account, how to apply for membership, where to go if they are a youth, where and what to contain in their intro post, and the basic steps of the process required to begin the IP ahead of developing an apprenticeship and attaining knighthood. The fewer the words the better. The simpler the message the better. All with the intent of not "losing" new members simply because they couldn't quite figure out where to go or what to do, and when they asked loosely, only mostly got "Check out the FAQs and IP and PM me if you have any questions" responses. Something in the realm of a lobby to the temple, where someone new comes in, and has clear signs pointing them to the chapel and the restrooms.

If it isn't moderately evident yet, I am mostly willing to participate in these efforts, more and more daily...but of course, need to balance my own studies and reflection, without diving into a virtual world which is quite literally bottomless, and ignoring the responsibilities of life, family, work, etc., we all have.

Honestly, I love the IP the way that it is. I love that it's brain-heavy. It's one of the main things that attracted me to TOTJO.

I didn't know, though, that there was an IP team and that it was possible to have someone (a sponsor?) check your journal entries before you've completed the IP.

Personally, I wish that the Campbell and the Watts was further along in the IP. I don't mind brain heavy, but it starts REALLY heavy.

Nami wrote: Personally, I wish that the Campbell and the Watts was further along in the IP. I don't mind brain heavy, but it starts REALLY heavy.

Campbell and Watts are some mind blowing and complex guys to get. So, I found it best to go through and several times and always remember the order you do them in is irrelevant. I did lesson zero as my last lesson lol

Nami, you have been awesome here I just want you to know I have been humbled by you and am proud to have listened to what you have told us and guided us to do! I hope we won't disappoint.

Nami wrote: Personally, I wish that the Campbell and the Watts was further along in the IP. I don't mind brain heavy, but it starts REALLY heavy.

It does say that you can do the lessons in any order that you choose. Remember that you have the freedom to decide which lesson would be the best jumping-off point for you. It doesn't have to be Campbell or Watts.

@Kobos Thanks so much. I was really worried that I was stepping on toes or speaking out of place.

@Astera I wanted to do it in order so people reading it could easily see the lessons, so they don't have to come through it to find what they're looking for.

Nami wrote: @Astera I wanted to do it in order so people reading it could easily see the lessons, so they don't have to come through it to find what they're looking for.

Yeah, I get that. Before I decided that I liked the set order best, I had considered doing it out of order and creating an "index" post that I would edit whenever I posted a new lesson, so that people could see what order I had posted things in. Maybe something like that could work if you wanted to choose your own order yet still preserve ease of reading?

You only have an hour after it's posted to edit it.

Happy 100 posts!!!!!!!!! Nami you're not stepping on toes, and most of us looking at Ip's on the base level are kinda used to them changing up and what not, to be honest I learn a ton from reading newer IP's because we all have different views.

Nami, don't forget that you can also ask for people to proofread or give you feedback on your journal posts if you'd like.

I did some with samthrift a few weeks ago and what I read closely matches what I wrote in mine. It is also ok to look at other journals and read what they said so you can compare. Be mindful, though, that you don't steal their words. For watts' I looked at a few other journals to compare and was not surprised that a lot of people struggled.

It's some heavy stuff!!

Nami wrote: @Astera I wanted to do it in order so people reading it could easily see the lessons, so they don't have to come through it to find what they're looking for.

Thats why I did my IP in order too

Astera wrote:

Nami wrote: @Astera I wanted to do it in order so people reading it could easily see the lessons, so they don't have to come through it to find what they're looking for.

Yeah, I get that. Before I decided that I liked the set order best, I had considered doing it out of order and creating an "index" post that I would edit whenever I posted a new lesson, so that people could see what order I had posted things in. Maybe something like that could work if you wanted to choose your own order yet still preserve ease of reading?

I have followed the order as presented if nothing more than I couldn't come up with any rational arguments to convince myself that I knew any better than what order it was already in, and though I poked and prodded a tad to see if there were a better way, just decided to settle into it and do what I could when I could do it.

Watts and Campbell are heavy...but also setup well for Lessons 3 & 4 too...and I imagine that having those background chunks done now helps me get that down-hill-slope feeling as the more "Jedi" specific stuff trends towards the back of the IP.

I wrote out my "understanding" of the Code in some personal notes before really getting started. As I reviewed those today to jumpstart that portion in Lesson 5, I could already see how incredibly different my current view and understanding of the Code is, having suffered through the brain-heavy side-effects of trying to make sense of Campbell and Watts. I can hardly see anything which remains in that early understanding now, and imagine I'll look back in a few months even and still see growth and development beyond what I could anticipate right now.

We all function differently in the end. I am a creature of habit and rule-following. For the life of me, I can hardly be expected to step out of line when order is already present in front of me. Maybe this is a weakness.

I digress.

I'd love to offer more direct Q&A and WTH(heck) kinda stuff if anyone else working through the IP suffers any moto-lags.

Brick wrote:

SamThrift wrote:
What if some of that burden were shifted more towards the Novice ranks?

Like, sure, interacting with Apprentices and Knights is certainly still important. But if I am struggling in the IP, it is often more useful to talk to others currently working through it together, at the same time. I for one generally understand new material better if I have to immediately turn around and explain it to someone else. When you grasp a concept well enough to teach that concept, it sticks with you better?
...

Put the onus on us Novice types to work together more directly, help new members get started on the IP, and work through it more as a team...I could benefit a lot from that sort of approach to it myself, and suppose as such, should simply start moving in that direction whether or not my lil idea here gains traction anyway...

Regarding this: what if we created a "Novice" group or an "IP" group just for people who are working their way through the IP? (And for people who'd like to help others with the IP.) This would be a great way to build a sense of camaraderie among Novices/new members. People could discuss difficulties/successes, vent when needed, and just generally support each other. I know that I was disappointed when I first joined and looked through the site's different groups, only to find that there weren't any that applied to me. I'd create a Novice/IP group myself if I knew how to create one!

Astera wrote:

Brick wrote:

SamThrift wrote:
What if some of that burden were shifted more towards the Novice ranks?

Like, sure, interacting with Apprentices and Knights is certainly still important. But if I am struggling in the IP, it is often more useful to talk to others currently working through it together, at the same time. I for one generally understand new material better if I have to immediately turn around and explain it to someone else. When you grasp a concept well enough to teach that concept, it sticks with you better?
...

Put the onus on us Novice types to work together more directly, help new members get started on the IP, and work through it more as a team...I could benefit a lot from that sort of approach to it myself, and suppose as such, should simply start moving in that direction whether or not my lil idea here gains traction anyway...

Regarding this: what if we created a "Novice" group or an "IP" group just for people who are working their way through the IP? (And for people who'd like to help others with the IP.) This would be a great way to build a sense of camaraderie among Novices/new members. People could discuss difficulties/successes, vent when needed, and just generally support each other. I know that I was disappointed when I first joined and looked through the site's different groups, only to find that there weren't any that applied to me. I'd create a Novice/IP group myself if I knew how to create one!

I'm still game! I know there is some way to actually make "groups" of some sorts...but as you point out, don't particularly know how to get about doing that?

Open call for instructions on how to make actual "groups" (i.e. the Military Jedi, group, which I just recently accidentally found)...with the idea of an "IP Study Group" mentality?

EDIT: For the record, if any of you knew my general approach to study, you would know that I have NEVER studied for anything, EVER! Entering my final semester on my Masters...and still have yet to study for a single thing the whole time...so trying to kick along the idea of a "Study Group" almost seems somewhat counter to the very center of my being. But it excites me here. :woohoo:

Sorry for the extended delay. I wanted to be as "unplugged" as possible while my mom was visiting, and was enjoying the break from anything-not-necessary so I stayed mostly offline for another few days.

I did write up quite a wall of text off and on during that time, however, and I'll endeavor to whittle it down somewhat after I take a good look at what else has been posted in this thread in the interim.

Short version: I have 26 years of online forum moderation/video game leadership (most recently in World of Warcraft, where I've served as a raiding guild leader for 12 years) as well as offline management experience. Therefore, my "how to better help newcomers" answers will be targeted more at the administrative level, rather than the emotional level. You can't make people feel a certain way, but you can ease the leadership burden and delegate to a large enough group that there are more people involved in working with newcomers, which will then help alleviate any feelings of being neglected.

I have a pretty direct style of communication, so my suggestions may come across as firm, "You need to do this," kind of statements if you read them that way. That is not my intent. Please know that I mean to offer these in the spirit of just throwing ideas out there that I've personally utilized these past decades, because I feel like I would be remiss if I just sat on all that experience. The ideas will either be of interest or not, and can be modified or ignored as you please.

Actually, I can shorten my post a lot because I just looked at the app and um...I can start and maybe stop there.

For real, serious, why are you asking new people if they have a criminal record, just so they can gain access to post on your Jediism forum? Holy cats. That's amazingly invasive. I'm stunned. Like jaw on the floor stunned. I just wanna be able to thank someone for a post but y'all wanna know if I've been to jail before I can do that?

I mean I get it if someone is going to actually have some fiduciary duties then cool, do a background check at that point and stuff, but, um...wow. I have a squeaky clean record and I'm still completely put off by that. The only people who've ever asked me that are my employers, because I did handle money at several jobs, so I can understand why they'd want to check. Otherwise? No. Like my best friends and I haven't even had that conversation. I'm seriously baffled, you guys. And what if I had been convicted of a crime at some point? Um...so what?

I mean, I'm not even keen on giving out my address and phone number to strangers on the internet, either (which, you know, you are at this point and I have no idea how secure your site is), and having battled internet stalkers that doxxed me and threatened me at home, I'm not in a hurry to repeat that process. But if your version of an icebreaker is, "Hey, been to jail?"...um...wow. If I was out with someone and they asked that, it would be a really short date. LOL