Jedi Healers

B. Kliban

I remember reading an article about a scientific study of reiki. Although the study didn't involve enough tests to be held as scientific fact, it was discovered that fake reiki was more effective than the real one when the patients were being lied to All hail placebos, the most effective treatment there is!

I have to admit I love placebos! Have you ever thought of the oposite? that If you give someone a powererfull psychotropic drug and they belive that it does nothing then it just won't.

The wonderfull power of "belief"...or disbelief for that matter.

The sceptics dictionary has alot about what other people believe.

But do they have a defenition for the word belief itself.

I know what you mean ren. Alot of these so called reiki practitioners simply say things like "if you can't feel anything, then it's working on a more subtle level"...this is simply for them to get a laugh from the fact that no-one can "see" reiki so no-one can prove it doesn't exist.

But refering back to what the sceptics handbook said. I do belive in vitalism. Let me explain.

During my stay at the local nut-home (don't ask how I got put there) There were alot of people who really were using belief to further they're totalitarian reisheim. Especially the so called nurses. I was constantly underfire phisically, verbaly and mentaly.

But, strangly enough that was one of the most peacefull states of mind i've ever had. I felt this sense of vitality in my chest; and knew that I didn't want anyone to take that away from me. I hadn't even heard of vitalism at that time. And if I had heard it said I would probably called it some kind of new age mumbo-jumbo.

But this doesn't mean scientists and reiki practitioners have to be at war. Science doesn't necessarily prove Reiki wrong and reiki doesn't nessesarily have a problem with science.

anyways i'm off to bed.

goodnight!

B. Kliban

Jackofalltrades wrote: Science doesn't necessarily prove Reiki wrong

Well goodnight to you as well. I'm now off to my leprechaun-unicorn flying fortress of ghost-bone where there are dragons and fairies (that live in houses made of teeth) where everything is immortal and money grows on trees and gold is grown like a crop and food is generated by thought where giants work as chefs to cook dinner with spoons

Science doesn't disprove what I just said. It could be true. Now tell me you believe me

Look into something called the 'Burden of Proof' and you'll get my point

MJ Hannigan wrote: So i guess what i am asking here is who else focuses on Reiki, Empathic Development or other forms of energy work on their Jedi Path?

Sort of, I've got a few books on Traditional Chinese Medicine and I've been reading them for over 16 years on and off. My wife has done I think 2 levels of Reiki. Funny story is her sister did it at the same time but during the program the training was so intense for her it made her vomit terribly.... we always thought she was the twin evil sister
:lol:

Its just a reality that sources of electromagnetic energy interact and influence each other, whether they be another animal nearby providing a deliberate or inadvertent 'healing' effect through resonant field interaction, or a mobile phone next to your head causing brain cancer.

Skepticism is a cheap shot using the established limits of a system of measurement to criticize anything which falls outside that systems ability to measure it, so I'm not impressed generally with skeptics but its an important part of science when used within the scope of applicability or to define applicability.

Akkarin wrote:

Jackofalltrades wrote: Science doesn't necessarily prove Reiki wrong

Well goodnight to you as well. I'm now off to my leprechaun-unicorn flying fortress of ghost-bone where there are dragons and fairies (that live in houses made of teeth) where everything is immortal and money grows on trees and gold is grown like a crop and food is generated by thought where giants work as chefs to cook dinner with spoons

Science doesn't disprove what I just said. It could be true. Now tell me you believe me

Look into something called the 'Burden of Proof' and you'll get my point

A scientist wouldn't waste his time disproving what you just said. He would probalby just treat it as some kind story. Also, I think you'd have a hard time proving yourself right about that in a controled environment.

I think this "Burden of Proof" that you talk about is simply a way to say that I have to prove that it exists, but you can simply take the micky out of the whole thing and not have to prove that it doesn't exist.

I don't know if you practice reiki or not. But why on earth would someone who has not practiced Reiki know more about it than someone who had? So someone tells you they can heal yourself and others, And you simply disbalive it. On what grounds do you say that it doesn't exist?

Br. John wrote:

Attachment kliban_fish.gif not found

B. Kliban

so we are reiki (fish) and the scientist is trying to prove the existance of ourselves (fish)

Let's say I know one thing out of one-hundred. then the other 99 things I simply say they do not exist

We are not fish.

I love that we have a number of Jedi Healers here.

I will chime in here.

"I am no Healer. I am me.

I am no Jedi. I practice Reiki." That's my enlightening poem for my midnight post here at home. *cough*

But, for super serious, let me say: Reiki isn't the only way... (crap... I can't stop rhyming)

There's Qigong, and Medicine, and jibble-dee-dong;

but I bet you never thought that they might all be wrong. (*@#%)

So, wake up, stop dreaming, you narrow-minded peoples,

and worship the True God: a beer and some pringles.

...

Ok, the last line was stupid, and I shouldn't keep talking,

but I have one more comment... don't shy and stop mocking.

Reiki is no better than any other Way,

so why pick a fight for it today?

If it works, it's a miracle,

if it doesn't, try again.

In the end, what's the point,

if the patient is well and I'm not paid in yen...

(really, this sucks).

_____


All poems aside, do you get the point? (still reading in verse?)

Reiki is a METHOD. Qigong healing is a METHOD. Chinese medicine is a METHOD.

Science is Science.

Let them exist in their own worlds. Science can be Physical. It can be seen. But, just like Reiki and Qigong, it can be wrong. Think about how many things Science CANNOT do yet. It cannot heal Cancer, while it has been shown that positive thinking and holistic methods (placebo or not) can cure the impossible. Reiki can cure the common cold, whether or not it is actually Reiki.

When you make it more complicated than that, you will keep running in circles. One will disprove, another will be too stupid to notice. In my opinion, arguing over what makes a Jedi Heeler (cute dog) is foolish. It is arrogant, and it is self-serving. Hannigan, I am talking to you. (warn me, whatever, he can take it).

I am a level 2 Practitioner of Reiki, but I have yet to acknowledge that it works or it actually exists. To me, it doesn't matter. Belief has nothing to do with it from my side. I heal my friends, and they tell me "thanks". They, 90% of the time, heal faster than they would without my treatments. Maybe I am giving them energy, maybe I am not. It doesn't matter to me. (which is why I am not a Jedi Healer, I suppose.)

I recently shed the hindrance of the title Jedi because I felt like, during my training at least, it was holding me back instead of opening doors.

Maybe those of you who's only goal is to prove or protect their own disciplines should take a good, critical look at what you believe in from the outside in. If all the answers are within, then the only way to observe the within is from the outside. Separate yourself from your actions like an OBE, and really look at yourself.

Healing, like any other art, has multiple facets. It has Metaphysical (or Spiritual like Reiki or Qigong), Mental (like therapy), and Physical (like Surgery or Medicine). None can exist without the other, yes?

Spiritual takes human (physical) application and brain power (mental) to come up with it in the first place.

Same with medicine.

Surgery definitely takes the physical and mental as well.

None can exist without the other two, even if one is at a very low level.

My prescription is simple: look at Reiki and Medicine like they are the same. But, keep them in their own worlds. Reiki is for certain problems. Nobody has ever closed a gaping wound just with Chi or Reiki. Nobody has ever cured a man of fear with Medicine. But, those problems are equally deadly. They cannot be treated the same way.

Nothing would exist and have survived hundreds of years without a good reason.

I don't know if you practice reiki or not. But why on earth would someone who has not practiced Reiki know more about it than someone who had? So someone tells you they can heal yourself and others, And you simply disbalive it. On what grounds do you say that it doesn't exist?

That was his point. certain things make sense, others seem preposterous. People who believe radioactivity causes cancer can have a hard time believing this same radiation, in high doses, can cure that cancer. Yet, they get to be proven otherwise. If you can't experience being cured from cancer by being irradiated, you can always rely on peer review.

But this doesn't mean scientists and reiki practitioners have to be at war. Science doesn't necessarily prove Reiki wrong and reiki doesn't nessesarily have a problem with science.

I think instead of proving things don't work, or don't exist or whatever, time should be spent proving things do work or do exist. For example it was proven that people who believe in reiki benefit from the placebo effect. It's kind of sad people have to believe in something to make their body feel better, but at the same time, they're better off happy fools than sad ones. When it comes to belief in idiotic medical practices, there is far worse than reiki out there. Did you know that having sex with virgins could cure your aids?

Alot of this has got do do with the fact that we're made to feel embaresed that there is a phisical aspect to reiki. OFCOURSE, we lay our hands on, and this will make the person relaxed; as would anyone laying their hands on, like a GP. The only problem IMO is that everyone has "heard" bout the more esoteric claims that some reiki masters make and are all educated as to what it's supposed to do

Imagine if George Lucas had never released the Star Wars films, I could quite easily talk about "The Force" and not be called crazy.

Please leave the mystical side of all this to the gods!

Lucas didn't invent the force. Not even the name...

I have a book written LONG before any of the Star wars movies were even dreamed up. In this book it calls a universal energy that encompasses all and causes change the “Force.” If I remember correctly this book was written back in 1958.

I just want to make my position clear on this topic (and 'energy' healing etc). Reiki is used to heal people. When people go to reiki masters they are often cured or helped with what ails them. I obviously have no problem with that. People that use reiki are, after all, just healing people

But they heal people on the basis of ignorance (no offence). When I say ignorance I do not mean that they are not sincere, they truly believe they are doing good and they do indeed do good

But we have methods and ways of proving whether or not things are what they are to ensure that human ignorance and blind assumption/faith is excluded

Many people believe in things that have no basis in real world fact. Reiki healers are among these people

Fortunately for reiki healers they are helping people and not doing any harm of any sort

But blood letters, witch burnings, (having sex with virgins to remove your AIDS as ren said) are all examples of people not using rational thought and mixing up reality with fantasy by allowing themselves to become subjectively involved and including their own prejudices and ignorance

That is what I am against

Reiki healers are fortunate in that all they are doing is healing, but the same thoughts that give rise to their beliefs in healing also give rise to human ignorance of the greatest of magnitudes and causing extreme harm

So no I don't have a problem with what reiki healers do for those that were wondering

I do have a problem with you referring to the beliefs of another as "ignorant", apologies or no...

Many physical illnesses are mental issues that have manifested themselves physically... It is why hypnosis is a valid form of treatment for some issues...

Can you explain why you feel someone staring at you?

I actually saw the reason on a television show... But, is it the intensity of the gaze, or the energy that they are focusing on you? Because of their pinpoint concentration?

If your a disbelief, this is fine...

But to lump it in with unicorns and that other rot is ridiculous...

Akkarin wrote: But we have methods and ways of proving whether or not things are what they are to ensure that human ignorance and blind assumption/faith is excluded

People used to say that man couldnt fly, that the world was flat...

Until science can prove it is a hoax, prove, not speculate...

If I had the power, do i think a million dollars and fame and fortune would be worth my time and energy?

Or healing as many as I could?

Maybe science is still a bit behind?

Has science proved the Force?

ren wrote: Lucas didn't invent the force. Not even the name...

That's exactly my point!

I'm well aware of the "Force, mind, Being" Type of philosophy.

But now that George Lucas has "popularized" it. It cannot be put across without athiests having all the "facts" about what they think it means, and saying that it's just a movie, when it quite clearly isn't which someone previously in this post has put accross.

I'd rather someone who didn't know about the Star Wars films in the first place, so that I could atleast have a proper discusion with them without them thinking that the phantom menace is about politics and pod racing.

Strangely enough, what you'll find: Is that most of the time when someone says something is simply "not real" they are obliviously aware of the good and bad sides of the subject they are driving out of reality. which is very distresing for the people who know otherwise (knowing something being the oposite of ignorance ) Infact alot of the time they are conviniently saying "I don't belive in the force, but if I did, I would choose the dark side!" You must see how amusing this is from my side? THAT's ignorance.

All this so called worldly inteligence is blinding you from the truth

The force is real