Jedi/Sith... light, dark?

If I am understanding what is being said about certain aspects of the “dark Side”, it seems (to me) to be just a different interpretation of Void. This is an excerpt form Go Rin No Sho:

Void – Book of Five Rings
What I call the void is where nothing exists. It is about things outside man's knowledge. Of course the void does not exist. By knowing what exist, you can know that which does not exist. That is the void.

People in this world look at things mistakenly, and think that what they do not understand must be the void. This is not the true void. It is confusion.

In the Way of strategy, also, those who study as warriors may think that whatever they cannot understand in their craft is the void. Someone like that will continue to be distracted by irrelevant things. This is not the true void.

To attain the Way of strategy as a warrior you must study fully other martial arts and not deviate even a little from the Way of the warrior. With your spirit settled on your duty, you must practice day by day, and hour by hour. Polish the twofold spirit of Shin (heart) and I (will), and sharpen the twofold gaze of ken (perception) and kan (intuition). When your spirit is not in the least confused, when the clouds of bewilderment are cleared away, there is the true void.

Until you realize the true Way, whether in Buddhism or in worldly laws, you may think that your own way is the one correct and in order. However, if we look at things objectively, in the light of the Straight Way of the Heart or in accordance with the Great Square of the World, we see various doctrines departing from the true Way. What you believe in often proves to be contrary to the true way, distorted as it is by tendencies to favor your own thoughts and views. Know this well, and try to act with forthrightness as the foundation and keep the true Heart as the Way. Enact strategy broadly, correctly and openly.

Then you will come to see things in an all-encompassing sense and, taking the void as the Way, you will see the Way as void.

In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom exists, principle exists, the way exists. Spirit is Void.

Miyamoto Musashi…

Hmmmm, been studying the Kabbala, and in the Torah there is mention of "The Void", wonder if its the same "Void"...

From "Secrets of the Void"

Kabbalah explains that in truth there is nothing but G-d. Everything that exists, whether physical or spiritual, is simply a highly limited expression of its Creator, somewhat like each of your thoughts and actions is a little expression of you.

The infinite light of G-d, as its name implies, is overwhelming, filling every space. Left unmuted, this all-encompassing light would make it impossible for anything else to exist, just like a ray of light cannot exist as a separate entity within the body of the sun. So, in order to allow for Creation in all of its limitless details and forms, G-d had to conceal His own infinite light. This concealment, known as tzimtzum, is what enables us to be. And more, it allows us to experience ourselves as real, solid, and the center of our universe.

This "Big Lie"--this core illusion of aloneness and solidity--is what allows us to exist as separate and unique human beings. In its raw, unrectified state, it cuts us off from the truth. But ultimately we are destined to see through the walls, transcend the illusion, and fulfill our potential as uniquely magnificent expressions of the Divine.

The Sound of the Void

The illusion is powerful, but not total. If we were totally cut off from an awareness of what lies beyond, chances are we would be perfectly content. There would be no reason to question ourselves or our existence, no drive to continuously experience more.

But we are not cut off completely. A glimmer of the Infinite light from before Creation surrounds and permeates each person who walks this earth. This light is what gives us the profound sense that there is something else out there. Only the something doesn't always feel like an actual something. It often feels like something missing--a void.

This void, this missing, hovers at the edge of our consciousness, threatening our comfortable sense of solidity and bringing with it an essential longing for... well, for something. Something more.

This sensation of something missing is actually the glimmer of something too vast and amazing to be perceived by our ordinary senses. But being physical beings in a physical world, we are not naturally inclined to relate to it in this esoteric way. In fact, the non-physical all too often makes us feel vulnerable and uncomfortable. So, instead of slowly allowing our eyes to adjust to this more subtle light, we avoid the experience altogether, or seek to fill the void with physical things.

The void pulls us relentlessly toward the next high, the next success, the more exciting relationship, the bigger, flashier toy. The feelings it triggers--like sadness, depression, anxiety or dissatisfaction--drive us to eat too much, drink too much, work too much, need too much; in short, whatever it takes to avoid facing the threatening insubstantiality of it all.

But, as uncomfortable and threatening as it can feel, if you are willing to face the discomfort, to stop running and listen, you can begin to explore the secret of the void, to expand your ability to see and hear things that lie outside your normal range.

Like a beautiful dream whose impression lingers, like a song that stirs memories and feelings from long ago, like a perfume that lingers faintly in the air, the music of the void can stir forgotten memories and open your heart. It can speak to you of who you truly are and of where you are destined to go.

concur with V from a prior post in this thread.

there is almost exactly ZERO percent chance that any of you will change the minds of another here, but a much higher chance that you will only succeed in pissing off yourself and others in the attempt.

so have at it. i bow out before i am in.

Really, Des, the closest to "anger" I've seen on this thread are the "dark siders"...apparently they don't like that there seems to be a concensus that the dark side doesn't actually exist. It could be some other reason, but they're not talking...the bulk of my impression is based on listening to Khaos.

This topic can only server to anger ourselves if we're trying to persuade others...
If we are content to express our view, maybe with some explanatory accompaniment, and listen to others voice their views, and just discuss for the sake of discussion, how can we get angry. Anger comes from attachment, usually that attachment is to a preferred outcome (such as persuasion).

But you don't have to speak here if you don't want to, I'm not trying to goad you into anything.

Wes -- funny, was just reading that yesterday

Zenchi -- sort of ... nor yes nor no

... is there a destination ? :huh:

And Desolous -- this happens.

One would do well to not try to change the mind of another -- 'just express oneself and then keep quiet.'

As such, I've done too much already here. :dry:

I didn't think anyone was angry....I mean...nothing has been said to make someone angry....unless someone insulted me and I missed it...

I thought we were having a discussion in a discussion forum.

Actually though, it seems to be the consensus that nothing exists. Which is what ive been talking about. Not just the Darkside. I'm just comfortable using my path as a reference as opposed to another.

As for changing someones mind...I see no benefit in trying to do so here even if it was possible.

I'm sorry then, Khaos...you seem to be just kind of generally "agitated", so I naturally, but apparently mistakenly, thought you to be irritated or angry...my mistake.

...And why would you not try to change our minds if it were possible to do so? Do you not believe you are right, or do you not think we're worth the effort?

I saw/have seen many say that the dark/light aspects do not exist...there are very few of us saying "nothing" exists...

You know… I have never read the Kabbala.

Perhaps I should?!?! :huh:

I would think that through the endearment of a constant exchange of ideas we run the risk of possibly gaining some (or better) understanding of each other. And a level of wisdom might even be ascertained by said exchanges? Who would want that!??!?!?

Hahahahhahahha :woohoo:

I have learned recently that our conception of the self really does not exist. These light and dark things are ideas that we attach to our misconceived self. We say that this amalgamation of emotions, experiences, memories, and bodily fluids makes up a greater sum than its parts, though I am inclined to believe differently. I think we are much less than our parts. In fact, I think we are so much less that we do not even exist. Just that the faculty of our processes engenders this kind of perception and the ability to distinguish between ourselves and the outside world.

We are taught, as individuals, to be individual. We take stock in our variety of experiences and almost worship the divinity of our experience. But, as a lay student of Zen, I have but few issues held against the properties of this individuality. First, and most important, that we are some kind of spirit outside of the parts that make us, and that this spirit is a member of a larger spirit body. This is the idea of the eternal soul. In Christianity, it is a membrane that forms between Heaven and Earth that separates these souls and incarcerates them in some kind of skin-tight form, only to be let out when the last breath is had. In Buddhism, there is no such illusion. The point is to realize that there is no eternal soul, there is only the eternal soul body that Christianity speaks of as well. This Heaven is something we are apart of, but as long as we allow our human forms to dictate our existence, we will have an illusion of individuality.

I used to not have a problem with this, until recently, when I made the observation that all of my issues come from this first and most important destructive quality of my mindset. Then, when I let it go, I was able to see quickly that my happiness extends from me and to me from the Tao. From the Buddhadharma. From the Bible. From the Holy Spirits. From the dead who have passed. From those who are dark and those who are light.

This duality is stuck within us because of the implantations of morals forged from the subjugation of western society to its own standard. We are prisoners of our own society. And, society was created due to the need to control. This is darkness, this is human nature, this is not reality.

Reach out to your feelings and witness your illusion, I beg you, friends. You have no light in you; you have no dark in you. But, when this realization is made, and you see that there is no YOU to have light or dark, you will have Light, because there is nothing else to be but Light.

Nothing Exists

Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.

Desiring to show his attainment, he said: "The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no realization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received."

Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.

"If nothing exists," inquired Dokuon, "where did this anger come from?"