Jedi/Sith... light, dark?

By the words "bother with", are you saying that most Sith say it doesnt exist?

Of course not.

However the goodness of Jedi and the evilness of Sith (or good and evil, and light and dark) of how they are or not isn't a big part of our conversations or study (as it seems to be here)

Were fine with saying were Dark. No, not pure Darkness, but then, common sense dictates as much. So it also isn't a big part of our conversations or study about how all is one, etc. Or how bad or not were being. This isn't the base identification for us with regards to the term Dark.

Darkness is the model, the path in which we work to realize our various goals. Such words, definitions, and descriptions are simply part of that model. We don't waste time trying to tear down or belabor how much of the illusion the model is. Or any model. Yes because its again,common sense, but moreso because its there's little value or purpose in wasting the time(especially online) to do so.

We cultivate it, as we cultivate ourselves to the highest benefit. As such it. (Darkness, Sith, and all the other buzzwords)has great meaning to us.

This has nothing to do with good and evil, and not even light. Darkness is a path not solely or even mostly represented by metaphysical, or moral connotations. Which seems to be the only way people are able to discuss such things here. Or are willing too. Mores the pity.

Be sure When discussing darkness I am in no way referencing good and evil. Lol, and those who bother with the Force are encouraged to do it on there own time. Its si.ply to vague amx relative a topic of discussion to give any focus as a group too.

If there's any dichotomy, its of dicussing the...ambiguous and the pragmatic.

I always hope in coming to Jedi communities there will be more offered then these tedious discussions about the Force or good and evil. That perhaps there are differences in methodologies in attaining perhaps to some more...."mundane " pursuits.

I mean if the Tao that can be named isnt the true Tao....then what's there to discuss about it?

Lol, what else you got? What else does the Jedi path offer past these things. There's got to be more to discussing about how nothing is pure good or evil and aspects to the Force doesn't exist.

To what benefit is this model that had been adopted? So far all ive seen is people tear it apart to one degree or another.

Khaos wrote: However the goodness of Jedi and the evilness of Sith (or good and evil, and light and dark) of how they are or not isn't a big part of our conversations or study (as it seems to be here)

I'm curious now...do you, in fact, "study" and if so, what?

Khaos wrote: We're fine with saying we're Dark. No, not pure Darkness, but then, common sense dictates as much. So it also isn't a big part of our conversations or study about how all is one, etc. Or how bad or not were being. This isn't the base identification for us with regards to the term Dark.

There's an alternative "definition" for the word dark, which simply states that "dark" represents the "unknown"...which is to say that that which is dark is unknown. I've always rather enjoyed that meaning for the word (when not discussing actual lighting conditions), because it's the only "metaphysical" usage of the term that's not relative to the moral and ideological set of the speaker and/or listener...but I suppose that has nothing to do with what you're saying...

Khaos wrote: Darkness is the model, the path in which we work to realize our various goals. Such words, definitions, and descriptions are simply part of that model. We don't waste time trying to tear down or belabor how much of the illusion the model is. Or any model. Yes because its again,common sense, but moreso because its there's little value or purpose in wasting the time(especially online) to do so.

What else are you going to waste your time doing online?

I tend to believe that all "models" are simply the illusion of those who perceive them...and if you're not going to waste time discussing that, what will you waste your time doing?

Khaos wrote: We cultivate it, as we cultivate ourselves to the highest benefit. As such it. (Darkness, Sith, and all the other buzzwords)has great meaning to us.

This has nothing to do with good and evil, and not even light. Darkness is a path not solely or even mostly represented by metaphysical, or moral connotations. Which seems to be the only way people are able to discuss such things here.

...Which leads one to believe that you think this darkness you speak of is literal...you're not leaving yourself very many other areas to explore this darkness or dark path or whatever you want to call it...or, perhaps I have simply misunderstood something you've said?

Khaos wrote: Be sure When discussing darkness I am in no way referencing good and evil. Lol, and those who bother with the Force are encouraged to do it on their own time. Its simply to vague and relative a topic of discussion to give any focus as a group too.

That's funny...I thought we were...

Khaos wrote: If there's any dichotomy, its of dicussing the...ambiguous and the pragmatic.

Come now, Khaos...there are plenty of dichotomies to go around...we don't all have to share just one.

Khaos wrote: I always hope in coming to Jedi communities there will be more offered then these tedious discussions about the Force or good and evil. That perhaps there are differences in methodologies in attaining perhaps to some more...."mundane " pursuits.

I mean if the Tao that can be named isnt the true Tao....then what's there to discuss about it?

Lol, what else you got? What else does the Jedi path offer past these things. There's got to be more to discussing about how nothing is pure good or evil and aspects to the Force doesn't exist.

To what benefit is this model that had been adopted? So far all ive seen is people tear it apart to one degree or another.

That's a valid point about the Tao...so...what do you want to talk about then? Why don't you direct a conversation? Can you start your own thread as a guest? If not, I'd be happy to start one for you...what shall I call it?

Khaos wrote: I always hope in coming to Jedi communities there will be more offered then these tedious discussions about the Force or good and evil.

You may find them tedious...that's not to say that everyone else does and that they aren't worthwhile

In all honesty I have seen enough of these sorts of discussions during my year in the community to mean that I no longer feel motivated to engage in them in the same way that I used to...

However...when I was newer it was important to me to gain and develop my own understanding of, and stance on, this light/dark/good/evil/Jedi/Sith stuff, and I believe that one of the reasons that these discussions frequently come up and create flurries of activity is because people are doing just that.

With us not having any aspects here, there is a lot of confusion about such things, and sometimes people wonder whether they should be categorising themselves, how they should do that, and loosely what category they would fit into...they might also strive to understand what others mean when they come here from other communities and say "I am a light/grey/shadow/dark Jedi", because such things are slightly more alien and unknown to us...

Besides - yes, we may regularly see similar threads on this topic cropping up...but the TOTJO boards are rather active and busy, and probably about 98& of threads here have nothing to do with this subject...

Alluvius wrote: Can you start your own thread as a guest? If not, I'd be happy to start one for you...what shall I call it?

Guests can start threads

I tend to believe that all "models" are simply the illusion of those who perceive them...and if you're not going to waste time discussing that, what will you waste your time doing?

Lol, use the model ive chosen. Hopefully to my benefit. Financially, materially, physically, etc. Help others who percieve its usefullness and find meaning in it on there own journey. Cultivate the model further.

Once you know there illusions,that in no way changes there usefullness in application. So what good does further discussion do? It is not unlike discussing the nature of the Tao. There's nothing much to discuss.


Should I tear apart others interest in it? For what? Instead id rather show the personal meaning, achievement, and fufillment that can be found in undertaking it.

...Which leads one to believe that you think this darkness you speak of is literal...you're not leaving yourself very many other areas to explore this darkness or dark path or whatever you want to call it...or, perhaps I have simply misunderstood something you've said?

Lol, yes. What exactly are you exploring? Regardless of what path you choose? This is not a trick question nor particularly hard. However, once you have the answer you have plenty of areas to explore.

Of course, this is assuming that the idea is solely exploration as well. Were big on achievement as well as a myriad of other concepts within the Dark path.

Exploration is only as important as it allows you to achieve your passions. Not just because...

I'm curious now...do you, in fact, "study" and if so, what?

Currently? Continuing education in nursing. This will benefit me in many ways. It takes up quite a bit of time as I also work and support a family, as well as own and operate a dojo.

V-Tog wrote: In all honesty I have seen enough of these sorts of discussions during my year in the community to mean that I no longer feel motivated to engage in them in the same way that I used to...

I would hope that you would not engage in any discussion, even one you've never seen the like of, the same way now that you would have a year ago...otherwise it would seem that you've wasted a year.

@ Khaos

It seems that you've missed my main idea...that all paths are illusion, thus I choose not to choose. That's the only thing that would be a "waste of time" in my opinion...to waste my time deciding or "fretting over" which illusion I should back...Who cares!? It's all smoke and mirrors anyway. LOL

That said, what does it hurt to discuss the merits of one thought over another, or even to explore multiple fantasies in the interest of finding, perhaps, one that you "like" more than the others. How is it a waste of time to explore one's self and learn all you can while you're there? How is it in any way a "bad" thing to choose what terminology you want to use to represent yourself, but know that all terminologies (including the one you choose) are equally meaningless? Really, it's like telling a child that they're not allowed to play with toys because those games don't yield measurable success. That's probably true, but denying a child the right to play hinders that child's development. So let the Jedi "play"...how can it hurt you? And I still say, if you're that disgusted with what "we want to talk about" then you are perfectly free to choose a topic, post a thread, and let us talk for a while about what is "worthwhile" to Khaos...

Since this topic comes up time and time again, not only in Jedi/Sith websites, but also in classrooms (and most certainly philosophy classes), cafés, public assemblies and other churches, and has for thousands of years, one could consider it natural that this topic come up time and time again, in about any milieu and over and over again ... It is fascinating how these nearly systematically become multiple page threads of quoting and requoting one another until we haven't a bloody clue what we're really on about. And 'not knowing' is how we both start and finish ideally.

Our concern then, is only how do we approach it from one time to another ?

23
Express yourself completely,
then keep quiet.
Be like the forces of nature:
when it blows, there is only wind;
when it rains, there is only rain;
when the clouds pass, the sun shines through. If you open yourself to the Tao,
you are at one with the Tao
and you can embody it completely.
If you open yourself to insight,
you are at one with insight
and you can use it completely.
If you open yourself to loss,
you are at one with loss
and you can accept it completely. Open yourself to the Tao,
then trust your natural responses;
and everything will fall into place.

It seems that you've missed my main idea...that all paths are illusion, thus I choose not to choose. That's the only thing that would be a "waste of time" in my opinion...to waste my time deciding or "fretting over" which illusion I should back...Who cares!? It's all smoke and mirrors anyway. LOL

Nope....didn't miss the point. Lol, and there's nothing that gives evidence that not choosing a path relieves decision making and choosing an illusion.In fact, that's probably the biggest one your entertaining...just not enjoying. Lol, and why not enjoy the funhouse? Noone likes a stick in the mud.Besides you only get to enjoy it for such a short time.

And I still say, if you're that disgusted with what "we want to talk about" then you are perfectly free to choose a topic, post a thread, and let us talk for a while about what is "worthwhile" to Khaos...

Haven't I?