Jedi/Sith... light, dark?

Perhaps It's more to do with individual perceptions then, Or perhaps I should have been more specifc. My experiences mostly dealt with the Qlippoth and....other subjects I won't bring up here for obvious reasons, To make this more understandable for those here I merely simplified it.

For sooth, Zenchi, please elaborate ; it feels pertinent to the topic ...

Fantastic word use there, Alexandre.

As I understand it, the mythology depicts the Sith as the Dark Side OF the Force. Now this could mean that it is the dark side within the Force or it could mean the opposite or antithesis of the Force, the anti-Force if you will. Some people might claim they are only exploring the dark aspects of the Jedi and that they are not Sith, and others might indeed be following a path of chaos and call themselves Sith. But I think it is likely that there is as much confusion and variety in identities as there are in any other label.

If Jedi and Sith, Light and Dark are just labels it undermines the meaning of the symbols and the system that they try to define and to educate others in. Jedi must stand for positivity and if there are those that claim to be Jedi (label) that do not meet those standards that were formally agreed upon, surely that person has gone astray, or is technically in the wrong.

If we say that anyone can be anything and can say that they are anything, then there is no point to a symbol because the symbol has no definition. If I consider a STOP sign as an opportunity for me not to stop because I know everyone else is going to stop, then my interpretation, my meaning of STOP is wrong. If without ulterior motives I by mistake identify STOP as GO, then it is up to those who know/or have agreed upon its meaning to rectify me. Without agreement and consensus over what a name, term or symbol means we run the risk of a serious traffic accident. Edmund Burke said that Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

In the Star Wars mythology, Sith are selfish, cruel, devious, untrustworthy and volatile. All aspects which are in opposition to the Jedi concept of balance and harmony. The motivations for the Sith are anger, regret, desire (for power), or in fact as victims of deceit.

In contrast, it occurs to me that those who call themselves Sith or merely Dark Aspect who do not conform to the original mythology's motivations, they are perhaps nothing more than curious, and in this context it may well be dangerous, leading to things beyond their control and catalysing negative powers that could and should be stopped before they can overpower, deceive, or for that matter-empower.

In the Star Wars mythology, Sith are selfish, cruel, devious, untrustworthy and volatile.

Actually, you can absolutely trust those who are going to act in there own self interest first.

In contrast, it occurs to me that those who call themselves Sith or merely Dark Aspect who do not conform to the original mythology's motivations, they are perhaps nothing more than curious

Agreed, however that's hardly original mythologies corner of the market. LHP the world over have put such things into practice.

harmony. The motivations for the Sith are anger, regret, desire (for power), or in fact as victims of deceit.

None of these are motivations. There emotions. And you've left out many. Anger can motivate, but is not the source in and of itself. I need a reason ti be angry. Similarly I don't desire for no reason. There is a definite what or who motivating it. Power is ambiguous and means nothing. Were much more specific in our goals,though arguably it could amount to the same thing. However we prefer tangible, specific, and quantifiable goals as the focal point of our passions.

Which is why its encouraged to not belabor the Force. At Oots we have a rule of thumb that if its not pertaining to what your doing this week, its a waste of your time. Especial something that's ambiguous, vague, and to most ineffable.

As for regret......I cant say I have any. Seems like a waste of time. I would say it makes for a poor Sith who entertains regret.

Khaos wrote: Actually, you can absolutely trust those who are going to act in there own self interest first.

I agree. When people are true to their nature it can be very easy to rely on them to act in that manner. One just has to understand what that manner is.

That does not mean that I condone or approve of whatever it is they are doing/going to do but at least they can be counted on to do it.

Personally, I no longer really care about the Jedi/Sith archetypes, It seems the majority of everyone here falls within the "grey" area, so it seems redundant. I was however, asked to describe myself better in regards to my exploration of both light and dark, so here goes. It is well believed that any and all acts of thought, action, magick or belief stem from the force, and that they are, in physical or mental form, a manifistation of it. (It is at least, my belief). So when I state that I have explored both sides of the spectrum, I am using this a metaphor to explain my search for personal subjective truth. I began this search briefly after my near death experience in 86. I began to question my beliefs centering around that of my faith, and of god in general. I won't go into the nitty gritty here as I have come to respect the beliefs of other members at the TOTJO, and much of it can be found in my journals here for anyone who is interested.

When I didnt find god, I went looking "elsewhere". I began dabbling in magick and things I probably shouldn't have in some search for personal truth. Without any respect or accountability, I did things I probably shouldn't have. Without the control and balance to temper the subconscious, the ego had free reign. Things escalated twelve years ago with the death of a very close friend, (he was murdered) and I somehow felt personally involved if not partially responcible. I fell into alcoholism, I hit rock bottom. It was then that I realised that in the search for personal truth, Id lost it all.

I was forced to acknowledge that I had "problems", and instead of taking pharmaceuticals to treat them, I began meditating and doing asana yoga. These practices, along with having to be a father figure for both my neices, literally saved my life. Through them I began to reclaim some form of inner balance. It was after this balance was achieved that I began to educate myself, my studies began with energy and how it relates to the human body. I also found a personal affection in paganism.

Never did I go directly looking for this thing we call "the Force". It was through the exploration of life that I found it. I learned that through a study of psychology and nlp while employing yoga techniques, one could study the "Darkside" without the subconscious atavisms taking hold thus preventing mental problems down the road. However, without someone to guide the student, exploration into the deeper, more dangerous areas concerning the sorcery of the self often results in the student literally going over the cliff and commiting suicide (or worse) or becoming majorly, if not partially mentally "scarred ".

The Force as "I" see it, isnt this separate entity, it is simply a term to define that which encompasses all forms of life. It is the breath, its our "heartbeat", our thoughts, our actions. To me the force is a term used to describe something much bigger than ourselves. When I state that I have explored both sides, it wasn't done through a study of the "force", it was done through alot of soul searching, digging, drinking, crying, kicking, scratching, screaming, dying, healing, laughing, loving, (and raising to little girls who couldnt rely on their parents) the whole nine yards. Through the mundane, the "occult", nature, every facet of life I could get my hands on. It has been a life's journey, and although there are things I could have done differently.......im not sure I would have if given the chance.

So, I suppose it IS up to personal interpretation. I dont require my experiences to be validated, I have evolved and grown throughout all of it. Thank you Alexandre, you push me to explain myself further than just a generalization, (perhaps I use them to forgoe the retelling of painful memories, but then again, isnt that all the more reason to divulge, so that someone else learns from it) you remind me why it is I came back to the TOTJO, yourself being one of those reasons....

the grey area is very large...especially since we all have both light and dark within us...some of us(like me) started out in the depths of the dark and worked upward towards balance...others started out at the apex of light and worked downward towards balance...we each stop at different points along the way when we reach that spot we feel most comfortable at...very few stay in the pits or at the apex their whole lives...

No, most of us aren't extremists and even they cant stay extreme 24-7. This is common sense and doesn't require the years of study (and in my eyes time wasted) people like to make it out to be.

However this does nor mean the paths aren't different and distinct. Only when only a true honest representation of each path is being an extremist(apparently tyat must be the assumption)do they begin to lose meaning. Because of course, that is impossible, such is the definition of an ideal. However not being able to be Dark Darkenson the Dark of Darkness doesn't mean I don't follow a Dark path.

So, why hold people to ideals? Especially in the Dark path where we view ideals at all with disdain. Why hold a path to an absolute extreme? Or anyone?

Further, why does this give less value to one following any path?

Such is when one sees things in absolutes and extremes that they need tediously,reduntantly repeat the same thing over and over again of it not being suchad infinitum. Trust me, we get it .

But then...what would most of you talk about? Hmm.....

As if it really matters to if one is living a fulfilling life, or a viable path. If one drinks pepsi his whole life and never drinks coke its not the end of the world. Nor would the necessarily believe they are missing something. Nor would I need to constantly point out that coke is an equally valid soda and there all cola.

Also I would hope people find value in it and create value in it other than its descriptions and definitions within the Force. Metaphysics shouldn't be the sole endevour or focus (or even at all) of any path.

It certainly isn't within the Dark path ive been teaching for years now.

Something that vague and ambiguous, as well as ineffable wouldn't fit completely into any description by anyone or any path.

Again, not training, common sense....hence ineffable ...words and definitions do help in understanding many times.