Transgender - An Identity Issue

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23 Aug 2019 14:34 #342016 by Kobos
So, I am reposting this because I still want to have this discussion;

To any trans person, in your experience as a trans-person have you ever run into someone that might be in that situation though? I do not like the way Phoenix worded it but is that something that is happening in some cases? Does this hurt the trans community? How do we address this if it is happening? Is this not a problem that we should address?

I hate to bring this person up because, I believe this person does great harm to the true trans community by way of being a public figure. But, a person like Jessica Yaniv who from the perspective of a straight male seems a little off the deep end especially when I consider my trans friends. I see an absolute opposite in mind set between my friends who are trans (or my limited experience and personal understanding of trans people), one an individual with a complete transition and an individual who is in the process of deciding whether to transition or to live in the state they are now, for the record they both dislike the narrative and who Jessica Yaniv is.

So I cannot read peoples mind which is why I like to ask questions. I ask that no one take offense I am simply asking questions from the only perspective and exposure to people in real life and in media. If this was offensive please let me know how and why and I can try to reword the question so I can reach a better understanding with out asking things that tear people down.

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

Fighting what you cannot see, will only lead you to lash out with violence towards everyone. Know your enemy, and you may find yourself a friend.

You can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile- Men without hats

Training Masters: Carlos.Martinez3 and JLSpinner
TB:Nakis
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23 Aug 2019 15:35 #342019 by VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar
Kobos, Im afraid in the fray your question has lost its context. Could you restate it a little more clearly. Im not sure what you are asking and I dont really even know who the person is you are referencing. Can you add some context on who this person is and why they are controversial?

Solve' et coagula
Non serviam
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23 Aug 2019 15:50 #342022 by Kobos
So it is kind of hard to explain who she is so, here some links to this person (I just found out their wikipedia has been deleted).

pjmedia.com/trending/jessica-yaniv-page-...ears-from-wikipedia/

This is one of those cases where it seems the system is being taken advantage of and so is the good will of people by a malicious or very ill person.

Hopefully that gives some perspectives.

Much Love,
Kobos

Fighting what you cannot see, will only lead you to lash out with violence towards everyone. Know your enemy, and you may find yourself a friend.

You can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile- Men without hats

Training Masters: Carlos.Martinez3 and JLSpinner
TB:Nakis

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23 Aug 2019 16:46 #342025 by VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar
Ah, this seems to go hand in hand with my scenario about a white woman identifying as black male and then claiming they deserve slave reparations. Sounds nuts right? But eventually someone is going to try it. When the goal posts like this start shifting this kind of thing is always going to happen. The crazies will come out! I am sad to see the censorship in the form of getting the wiki removed. Its akin to campuses denying speakers they don't agree with like Ben Shapiro.

My opinion is that just because you can do something does not mean you should. This is not setting a boundary on progress per say but it just seems to me that people need to strive harder to stay a bit more grounded in reality. We all have flights of fancy, right? This place is a "Jedi Temple", Hell, I call myself a Sith! And people really get attached to these ideas so much so that the lines of fantasy and reality begin to blur. I think transgender is similar in this way. People have a hard time accepting the reality of a situation sometimes.

I understand that Gender Dysphoria is considered a mental illness. This is different than Gender nonconformity. Personally I think the focus is in the wrong place for these people. It seems that there is an incredible amount of attention given to gender reassignment surgery and hormone therapy etc. But I think this is not the answer because these things seem to give temporary relief but is still not a best case long term solution. The surgeries and the hormones are devastating to the body and I understand can even shorten life spans. As well the risk of suicide even after transition seems to drop only slightly. And of course there is all this controversy over bathroom use etc.

I think a better solution is to change this stigma society in general has towards these people. We need to shed these fake ideas of gender norms. Men dress in pants and women in dresses sort of thing. We need to teach the next generations to not be ashamed of their bodies or that sex is a sin. Our entire morality structure needs to evolve. We need to stop letting religions like the christian church dictate to us what is right or normal and what is wrong. We need to normalize mental illness and make it as accepted as physical illness. We accommodate people with physical disorders so why not mental? Just because we cant see it does not mean its not there.

My best friend has bipolar. When she first got diagnosed she was devastated and thought she was broken. Society did not recognize her special needs because they could not see them. Things like "she just needs to get over it" where thrown around. Well thats bullshit! I began telling her she did not have a disability but she had a superpower that I did not have and I was jealous! If she was a Viking she would have been celebrated as a great warrior due to her specific qualities. Society today does not accept that sort of thing though and so they get shunned as defective.

Well Im here to say that no one is defective, We are all just different and if we cant embrace that and find the positive in every person we meet well I just feel sorry for those people cuz they are missing an incredible opportunity.

Solve' et coagula
Non serviam
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23 Aug 2019 17:25 #342027 by Neaj Pa Bol

VixensVengeance wrote: Ah, this seems to go hand in hand with my scenario about a white woman identifying as black male and then claiming they deserve slave reparations. Sounds nuts right? But eventually someone is going to try it. When the goal posts like this start shifting this kind of thing is always going to happen. The crazies will come out! I am sad to see the censorship in the form of getting the wiki removed. Its akin to campuses denying speakers they don't agree with like Ben Shapiro.

My opinion is that just because you can do something does not mean you should. This is not setting a boundary on progress per say but it just seems to me that people need to strive harder to stay a bit more grounded in reality. We all have flights of fancy, right? This place is a "Jedi Temple", Hell, I call myself a Sith! And people really get attached to these ideas so much so that the lines of fantasy and reality begin to blur. I think transgender is similar in this way. People have a hard time accepting the reality of a situation sometimes.

I understand that Gender Dysphoria is considered a mental illness. This is different than Gender nonconformity. Personally I think the focus is in the wrong place for these people. It seems that there is an incredible amount of attention given to gender reassignment surgery and hormone therapy etc. But I think this is not the answer because these things seem to give temporary relief but is still not a best case long term solution. The surgeries and the hormones are devastating to the body and I understand can even shorten life spans. As well the risk of suicide even after transition seems to drop only slightly. And of course there is all this controversy over bathroom use etc.

I think a better solution is to change this stigma society in general has towards these people. We need to shed these fake ideas of gender norms. Men dress in pants and women in dresses sort of thing. We need to teach the next generations to not be ashamed of their bodies or that sex is a sin. Our entire morality structure needs to evolve. We need to stop letting religions like the christian church dictate to us what is right or normal and what is wrong. We need to normalize mental illness and make it as accepted as physical illness. We accommodate people with physical disorders so why not mental? Just because we cant see it does not mean its not there.

My best friend has bipolar. When she first got diagnosed she was devastated and thought she was broken. Society did not recognize her special needs because they could not see them. Things like "she just needs to get over it" where thrown around. Well thats bullshit! I began telling her she did not have a disability but she had a superpower that I did not have and I was jealous! If she was a Viking she would have been celebrated as a great warrior due to her specific qualities. Society today does not accept that sort of thing though and so they get shunned as defective.

Well Im here to say that no one is defective, We are all just different and if we cant embrace that and find the positive in every person we meet well I just feel sorry for those people cuz they are missing an incredible opportunity.


I’ve been called many things here, complainer, bitching, hardass, dumb, stupid and unrealistic at times. It’s just names and am too old to really give a crap to a certain level. Part of the reason I retired was due to the age old belief I tried to follow here as trying to stick by one of this places original concepts of openness and free to follow what ever Jedi path one wishes. Delved through the changes of Faith areas of Rites to the now SIG’s.

We are all different and that tends to be a good and sometimes bad thing. And I don’t mean as people in general but humanity. No one person believes exactly as another but tolerance and acceptance is the goal. But as humans it doesn’t always go that way. But I’ve always believed that it can be discussed and if it does get “too hot” of a discussion it should be attainable to bring it back to a decent level.

Sometimes things aren’t handled well, yet posts can get off in the wrong direction. We all are smart enough to bring it back to an acceptable manner, sometimes. It’s not just Admins that can stop it via means of locked threads or bans. IMHO we are all responsible to keep it in check or should. Little cues in the posts should act as warning signs that it is something bothering another member or offending one. Each of us wants to be a better community, but we should also look out for each other’s feelings, not get all trolling or phishing to troll or plagiarize a week spot. Yes we all can get baited or join in, but, is it right? IMHO, No it is not... RESPECT is a tool Carlos posted. It’s not just for one but for the community . You may not a agree and that’s fine. But keep in mind what if that were you in that situation... Yes the old fart is done. My best to all...


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23 Aug 2019 19:26 #342040 by Omhu Cuspor

VixensVengeance wrote: Kobos, Im afraid in the fray your question has lost its context. Could you restate it a little more clearly. Im not sure what you are asking and I dont really even know who the person is you are referencing. Can you add some context on who this person is and why they are controversial?

Kobos wrote: So it is kind of hard to explain who she is so, here some links to this person (I just found out their wikipedia has been deleted).

pjmedia.com/trending/jessica-yaniv-page-...ears-from-wikipedia/

This is one of those cases where it seems the system is being taken advantage of and so is the good will of people by a malicious or very ill person.

Hopefully that gives some perspectives.

Much Love,
Kobos



Seeing this thread swing around to a considerate discussion is most welcome. Thanks to all participating.

If I understand the question correctly - whether or not Jessica Yaniv's actions are damaging to the trans community - I would say that the answer is yes.

I've had transgendered acquaintances, and one close transgendered friend. It's an orientation I had to contemplate myself, long ago. I have a lot of compassion for the physical and social challenges people like them face. But even bearing that in mind, compassion also mandates that even those of us with any out-of-the-mainstream way of being in the world recognize that our more conventional peers have values and needs just as we do. Those can include moral codes that may in some cases conflict with our personal desires.

When those desires are fundamental to our sustenance or to inherent rights, we may find that they take precedence over the long-established moral codes of others. However, when one's personal desires are relatively superficial (like the wish to undergo a cosmetic procedure) and the other person's moral concern is more substantive (as in, perhaps, faithfulness to a relationship), the greatest benefit is probably attained by subordinating personal wishes to fundamental values. We have to do our best to be fair in these evaluations, and it does not seem to me that Ms. Yaniv is interested in that. Many non-trans people are likely to share that sentiment, and with limited exposure to other trans people conclude that the entire trans community is unrealistic, inconsiderate, and/or unstable.

Hard-and-fast principles for deciding when to take each action so far elude me. At this point in my growth, I'm only able to consider such issues on a case-by-case basis.

In Ms. Yaniv's case, I am not confident she is authentically concerned about equal rights or justice. Given it seems her every complaint leads to a lawsuit, I have some suspicion that she is making this quest her career. That kind of approach is also not helpful to the trans community.

That's my take. Sorry it seems I am always so danged wordy.
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23 Aug 2019 22:34 #342057 by JamesSand

Ah, this seems to go hand in hand with my scenario about a white woman identifying as black male and then claiming they deserve slave reparations. Sounds nuts right? But eventually someone is going to try it. When the goal posts like this start shifting this kind of thing is always going to happen. The crazies will come out



Eh, they're not crazy, they're going after the preferential deal handed out to a particular group.

And, call me a hateful cishet beta incel if it helps, a part of the great equality everyone wants hinges on not offering special deals.

I search for a job in a town - the top five are "Female opportunities" or "indigenous positions"

For better or worse, I am neither of those things, but if I am seeking work, I have an immediate incentive to identify that way..

If the world (as some sort of great democracy) wants there to be no difference....then there can be no difference.

I believe the sentiment is "have your cake and eat it too"
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24 Aug 2019 05:00 #342080 by Deimos
Ms. Yaniv is a problem not just for the way she presents herself. It's also a bigger problem than just her, but she is a perfect example of the real villain in my honest opinion: Media. The media seems to prop up these, for lack of better term, radical trans people. The ones like Yaniv, or even Stefonknee. Yes that is her name. She is a 55 year old man who identifies as a 6 year old girl, left his SEVEN KIDS behind with their mother, got adopted by a family and "kid plays" with their kids. She even said that people are concerned because of the playing, but she said it doesn't matter. Albeit the quote was kinda cut there, so I don't know what came after it, but this person was propped as a spokesperson for the trans community by some media sources. THAT is the biggest issue. THAT is what the average person sees the baseline trans person, hence the weird looks and the questioning of their authenticity. All we really see in the media is the extreme end, and that needs to change.

-Dei'mos
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24 Aug 2019 05:57 #342081 by Phoenix Vidensia

Deimos wrote: Ms. Yaniv is a problem not just for the way she presents herself. It's also a bigger problem than just her, but she is a perfect example of the real villain in my honest opinion: Media. The media seems to prop up these, for lack of better term, radical trans people. The ones like Yaniv, or even Stefonknee. Yes that is her name. She is a 55 year old man who identifies as a 6 year old girl, left his SEVEN KIDS behind with their mother, got adopted by a family and "kid plays" with their kids. She even said that people are concerned because of the playing, but she said it doesn't matter. Albeit the quote was kinda cut there, so I don't know what came after it, but this person was propped as a spokesperson for the trans community by some media sources. THAT is the biggest issue. THAT is what the average person sees the baseline trans person, hence the weird looks and the questioning of their authenticity. All we really see in the media is the extreme end, and that needs to change.




Is this video legit?

... Meh ...

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24 Aug 2019 06:00 #342082 by Deimos
Legit in what sense? As in is that actually Yaniv or...?

-Dei'mos

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