Transgender - An Identity Issue

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22 Aug 2019 18:20 #341848 by Arinme

ZealotX wrote:

VixensVengeance wrote:

ZealotX wrote:

VixensVengeance wrote: So you do not agree that just because I identify as a black male I don't get the same privileges as other black males. So what gives a transgender woman the right to use the men's bathroom. She has not proven her lineage in the owning of a penis so why does she get to use a bathroom that is reserved for that lineage?


There was a time when black males couldn't use the same bathroom as whites. I don't know how you could honestly call it a privilege. Have you ever been in a ladies bathroom? They're almost always nicer. So why then would a transgender woman who identifies as a male want to use a 'worse' bathroom and enjoy the wafting aromas of the male rectum? Do you think she wants to look over the stall and see your pee pee? I don't think so. Using the bathroom isn't all about the other people that may or may not be in the bathroom. It's about remove liquid and solid waste from your body (and maybe some gases). It's not some holy place for the male phallus. If it makes you that uncomfortable go to the toilet stall. "He" is not there for you. He's not going to rape you. He just wants to pee and maybe take a dump.


Whoa, I think we got a bit sideways. I was not talking about discrimination here just gender assignment, the point (loosely speaking) of this thread? LMAO.. oh brother! :P :laugh:

Im simply talking about someone demanding to be treated as something they are not and the inherent rights that implies. I am not sure how that constitutes a rant (funny as it was) about male bodily functions.

I call the use of a bathroom "privilege" because it is a privilege based on gender (not color). A male generally does not have the privilege to enter a female bathroom and visa versa. So my question was if a white female cant self gender and race assign themselves as a black male to get slave reparations, why should a female that self gender assigns as a male get male bathroom privileges? That seems inconsistent to me.

(not withstanding the actual fact that I have no problem with coed bathrooms and feel if we went coed everywhere this would be no issue. However due to the overwhelming "Christian moral majority" all stuck on some antiquated idea of ethics that is not the case)


Well, let's all keep in mind that you were the one who brought up the race thing. But that being said, it is a very similar sort of discrimination. Black men were called "boy" and kept out of the same bathroom for the simple fact that they didn't want blacks using the same bathroom.

A male shouldn't be in a female bathroom unless its a coed bathroom? If you can simply call it coed then aren't you negating any real issue why transgender people wouldn't be allowed in? The bathroom itself isn't male or female. The bathroom itself wasn't born male or female. We're just calling it that. The same toilets that can be used by women can be used by people in transition. If you can just change the label there's no magical dimension opened up that only accepts certain genitalia. So what's the concern?

If women are looking for privacy please know that a man isn't going to have major physical changes done in order to "sneak a peak". If they identify as female then they would have the same issues being in a men's bathroom that a woman would have being in a men's bathroom. Saying they shouldn't simply because of what they were born with... to me is almost like saying "hey F your ramps. Too bad. You should have been born with working legs!" No... we accommodate people with special needs in our society. Some of those special needs and considerations happen to be gender related. But I think the point is that a lot of people don't care and are intolerant of what it means to be transgender and identify as a different gender than what your physical body suggests, and yes, that intolerance is much like not wanting black people in your bathroom either. But again... I wasn't the one who brought that up, just for the record.


Extremely well said.
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22 Aug 2019 18:27 #341853 by Phoenix Vidensia

ZealotX wrote:

VixensVengeance wrote:

ZealotX wrote:

VixensVengeance wrote: So you do not agree that just because I identify as a black male I don't get the same privileges as other black males. So what gives a transgender woman the right to use the men's bathroom. She has not proven her lineage in the owning of a penis so why does she get to use a bathroom that is reserved for that lineage?


There was a time when black males couldn't use the same bathroom as whites. I don't know how you could honestly call it a privilege. Have you ever been in a ladies bathroom? They're almost always nicer. So why then would a transgender woman who identifies as a male want to use a 'worse' bathroom and enjoy the wafting aromas of the male rectum? Do you think she wants to look over the stall and see your pee pee? I don't think so. Using the bathroom isn't all about the other people that may or may not be in the bathroom. It's about remove liquid and solid waste from your body (and maybe some gases). It's not some holy place for the male phallus. If it makes you that uncomfortable go to the toilet stall. "He" is not there for you. He's not going to rape you. He just wants to pee and maybe take a dump.


Whoa, I think we got a bit sideways. I was not talking about discrimination here just gender assignment, the point (loosely speaking) of this thread? LMAO.. oh brother! :P :laugh:

Im simply talking about someone demanding to be treated as something they are not and the inherent rights that implies. I am not sure how that constitutes a rant (funny as it was) about male bodily functions.

I call the use of a bathroom "privilege" because it is a privilege based on gender (not color). A male generally does not have the privilege to enter a female bathroom and visa versa. So my question was if a white female cant self gender and race assign themselves as a black male to get slave reparations, why should a female that self gender assigns as a male get male bathroom privileges? That seems inconsistent to me.

(not withstanding the actual fact that I have no problem with coed bathrooms and feel if we went coed everywhere this would be no issue. However due to the overwhelming "Christian moral majority" all stuck on some antiquated idea of ethics that is not the case)


Well, let's all keep in mind that you were the one who brought up the race thing. But that being said, it is a very similar sort of discrimination. Black men were called "boy" and kept out of the same bathroom for the simple fact that they didn't want blacks using the same bathroom.

A male shouldn't be in a female bathroom unless its a coed bathroom? If you can simply call it coed then aren't you negating any real issue why transgender people wouldn't be allowed in? The bathroom itself isn't male or female. The bathroom itself wasn't born male or female. We're just calling it that. The same toilets that can be used by women can be used by people in transition. If you can just change the label there's no magical dimension opened up that only accepts certain genitalia. So what's the concern?

If women are looking for privacy please know that a man isn't going to have major physical changes done in order to "sneak a peak". If they identify as female then they would have the same issues being in a men's bathroom that a woman would have being in a men's bathroom. Saying they shouldn't simply because of what they were born with... to me is almost like saying "hey F your ramps. Too bad. You should have been born with working legs!" No... we accommodate people with special needs in our society. Some of those special needs and considerations happen to be gender related. But I think the point is that a lot of people don't care and are intolerant of what it means to be transgender and identify as a different gender than what your physical body suggests, and yes, that intolerance is much like not wanting black people in your bathroom either. But again... I wasn't the one who brought that up, just for the record.


The system can be abused is what a lot of people opposing such a change are saying. Mainly, the concern is regarding pedophiles, since little girls and boys use the women's bathroom. If there is a pedo in there, pretending to be a woman.... you see the issue? What are we going to do? Have security guards check everyone's genitals before they enter the bathroom? "Yup, you're clear. Penis exists, please exit left to the men's washroom."

... Meh ...

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22 Aug 2019 18:43 #341867 by VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar
ZealotX I actually brought up the race idea to illustrate a point that I thought you might understand. However I feel like you have twisted it to your own agenda. That's fine, but you still have not explained to me why the man born white but identifies as black is not entitled to slave reparations but the man born male but identifies as female does have a right to a female only bathroom?

As for major surgery, that is not necessary. All it takes is a man putting on a dress and demanding to be called female and your missing my point on the coed thing. Yes if we relabeled bathrooms as coed all this would go away except for one thing. Those damn urinals would have to go away!! However you speak like a typical male in making the assumption that we all have a pretty penis we can point wherever! :P

Solve' et coagula
Non serviam
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22 Aug 2019 19:14 #341880 by ZealotX

Phoenix Vidensia wrote:

VixensVengeance wrote:
Whoa, I think we got a bit sideways. I was not talking about discrimination here just gender assignment, the point (loosely speaking) of this thread? LMAO.. oh brother! :P :laugh:

Im simply talking about someone demanding to be treated as something they are not and the inherent rights that implies. I am not sure how that constitutes a rant (funny as it was) about male bodily functions.

I call the use of a bathroom "privilege" because it is a privilege based on gender (not color). A male generally does not have the privilege to enter a female bathroom and visa versa. So my question was if a white female cant self gender and race assign themselves as a black male to get slave reparations, why should a female that self gender assigns as a male get male bathroom privileges? That seems inconsistent to me.

(not withstanding the actual fact that I have no problem with coed bathrooms and feel if we went coed everywhere this would be no issue. However due to the overwhelming "Christian moral majority" all stuck on some antiquated idea of ethics that is not the case)


I think the issue for many is children in those coed bathrooms. Though, it's just as weird and somehow socially acceptable for children to be in the woman's bathroom, even little boys. Not that I've ever seen a little girl walk into a man's bathroom, mind you.

I stand by my solution. Two bathrooms (penis and no penis) and maybe a third for familes with infants.


This is becoming a "2 state solution"... reminding me of the Israelis.

You do realize that a pre-op transgendered person doesn't necessarily want everyone to know or go through the embarrassment of having to go into the men's bathroom, right?

but again, we don't care about them or how they feel, right? This is about those who simply don't want to pee next to them. Right?

Or would you also welcome women who look like and identify as men in the women's bathroom? How is that any less confusing? That would mean any man could walk into a woman's bathroom and what? You're ask to see his johnson to prove that he's not trans? Is there going to be a bouncer in every bathroom checking johnsons? Did you really think that through?

Wouldn't it be much simpler to have people in the women's bathroom look like women and people who look like men in the men's bathroom? Because if the whole issue is privacy someone checking your private parts does NOT accomplish that.
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22 Aug 2019 19:16 #341881 by Phoenix Vidensia

ZealotX wrote:

Phoenix Vidensia wrote:

VixensVengeance wrote:
Whoa, I think we got a bit sideways. I was not talking about discrimination here just gender assignment, the point (loosely speaking) of this thread? LMAO.. oh brother! :P :laugh:

Im simply talking about someone demanding to be treated as something they are not and the inherent rights that implies. I am not sure how that constitutes a rant (funny as it was) about male bodily functions.

I call the use of a bathroom "privilege" because it is a privilege based on gender (not color). A male generally does not have the privilege to enter a female bathroom and visa versa. So my question was if a white female cant self gender and race assign themselves as a black male to get slave reparations, why should a female that self gender assigns as a male get male bathroom privileges? That seems inconsistent to me.

(not withstanding the actual fact that I have no problem with coed bathrooms and feel if we went coed everywhere this would be no issue. However due to the overwhelming "Christian moral majority" all stuck on some antiquated idea of ethics that is not the case)


I think the issue for many is children in those coed bathrooms. Though, it's just as weird and somehow socially acceptable for children to be in the woman's bathroom, even little boys. Not that I've ever seen a little girl walk into a man's bathroom, mind you.

I stand by my solution. Two bathrooms (penis and no penis) and maybe a third for familes with infants.


This is becoming a "2 state solution"... reminding me of the Israelis.

You do realize that a pre-op transgendered person doesn't necessarily want everyone to know or go through the embarrassment of having to go into the men's bathroom, right?

but again, we don't care about them or how they feel, right? This is about those who simply don't want to pee next to them. Right?

Or would you also welcome women who look like and identify as men in the women's bathroom? How is that any less confusing? That would mean any man could walk into a woman's bathroom and what? You're ask to see his johnson to prove that he's not trans? Is there going to be a bouncer in every bathroom checking johnsons? Did you really think that through?

Wouldn't it be much simpler to have people in the women's bathroom look like women and people who look like men in the men's bathroom? Because if the whole issue is privacy someone checking your private parts does NOT accomplish that.


The simple solution is... Got penis? Mens bathroom. No penis? Women's bathroom.

... Meh ...
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22 Aug 2019 19:29 - 22 Aug 2019 19:31 #341882 by SilverGear

The simple solution is... Got penis? Mens bathroom. No penis? Women's bathroom.


How would you ever know if the person in the stall next to you has specific genitalia?
What about inter-sexed people? Some have ambiguous genitalia.
What about people who are inter-sexed and have genitalia that doesn't match their genetics?

My point is that unless you are going to check in everyone's pants why make a big fuss about what someone else has between their legs?
What's the point? why the fuss? it's no different that a male sexually assaulting a male kid in the men's room or a woman sexually assaulting a female kid in the women's room.
Last edit: 22 Aug 2019 19:31 by SilverGear.
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22 Aug 2019 19:33 #341884 by ZealotX

VixensVengeance wrote: ZealotX I actually brought up the race idea to illustrate a point that I thought you might understand. However I feel like you have twisted it to your own agenda. That's fine, but you still have not explained to me why the man born white but identifies as black is not entitled to slave reparations but the man born male but identifies as female does have a right to a female only bathroom?

As for major surgery, that is not necessary. All it takes is a man putting on a dress and demanding to be called female and your missing my point on the coed thing. Yes if we relabeled bathrooms as coed all this would go away except for one thing. Those damn urinals would have to go away!! However you speak like a typical male in making the assumption that we all have a pretty penis we can point wherever! :P


FALSE! No one's penis is "pretty". I reject that whole cloth.

reparations is about history, not color. There are extremely light skinned black people who have been greatly impacted by slavery and part of the reason they are so light in color is because that slave master had a sexual relationship with his slave. How much duress or force was involved changes from person to person.

This is apples and oranges. Are you telling me that you need to know what sex organ everyone in the bathroom has? Do you question other females in there? Or do you just assume they're all female? If you just assume then why not keep assuming? If you don't know someone is trans then what harm was actually done? But no... we should have a gender purity test just to make sure that only people with vaginas are going into the female bathroom? Again, who's going to check?

And men don't really require urinals so you can make them all toilets. I've never lived in a house with a urinal. Nor do men enjoy peeing next to each other so closely. But if a transgender male walks in to a bathroom with the wrong group of guys it may invite a hate crime. When has any trans-gendered person ever attacked anyone in a bathroom? Why should we be concerned? Or is this just phobia talking?
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22 Aug 2019 19:35 #341885 by Phoenix Vidensia

SilverGear wrote:

The simple solution is... Got penis? Mens bathroom. No penis? Women's bathroom.


How would you ever know if the person in the stall next to you has specific genitalia?
What about inter-sexed people? Some have ambiguous genitalia.
What about people who are inter-sexed and have genitalia that doesn't match their genetics?

My point is that unless you are going to check in everyone's pants why make a big fuss about what someone else has between their legs?
What's the point? why the fuss? it's no different that a male sexually assaulting a male kid in the men's room or a woman sexually assaulting a female kid in the women's room.


It will get found out at some point if someone is abusing the currently existing washroom honor system. Either that or we chip people according to sex and have scanners at each washroom door. If they are the wrong sex for the washroom, the door doesn't unlock.

I'd rather not go to that extreme myself. However, short of genocide... It would work. *Dark humor*

... Meh ...
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22 Aug 2019 19:38 - 22 Aug 2019 19:38 #341886 by Kobos


Just a funny image that jumped into my head, sorry serious discussion continue.

Fighting what you cannot see, will only lead you to lash out with violence towards everyone. Know your enemy, and you may find yourself a friend.

You can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile- Men without hats

TM:JLSpinner
TB:Nakis
Last edit: 22 Aug 2019 19:38 by Kobos.
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22 Aug 2019 19:38 #341887 by ZealotX

SilverGear wrote:

The simple solution is... Got penis? Mens bathroom. No penis? Women's bathroom.


How would you ever know if the person in the stall next to you has specific genitalia?
What about inter-sexed people? Some have ambiguous genitalia.
What about people who are inter-sexed and have genitalia that doesn't match their genetics?

My point is that unless you are going to check in everyone's pants why make a big fuss about what someone else has between their legs?
What's the point? why the fuss? it's no different that a male sexually assaulting a male kid in the men's room or a woman sexually assaulting a female kid in the women's room.


Exactly. I think this fear is similar to "whatever" fears that wanted blacks to use different restrooms when no one had any proof of any kind of predatory behavior. Even if you could find ONE trans-gendered person who is a predator, this affects 1 in 4,000 babies. How many straight predators can you find? Much more, right? So who are we scared of? And who are we scared for? But trans women are forced to use men's bathrooms and vice versa then that means straight men could use women's bathrooms too. Why not? Straight male predators could use women's bathrooms and simply say they're trans. Who's going to check?
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