Transgender - An Identity Issue

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21 Aug 2019 14:52 - 21 Aug 2019 14:55 #341537 by Phoenix Vidensia
I've come to conclude that gender dysphoria is in many cases, connected to an overarching identity issue. Curiously, it's actually the same issue I have found in people who are fully inked, having many peircings, scarification, dermal implants, "unique" hair colors and cuts.

While I'm not professing that every girl with hot pink hair and tattoos is mentally ill, I am leaning strongly to believe they have an identity issue, just like the bearded guy wearing a dress and fake knockers, claiming to be a woman, does. I strongly believe he's disassociating into a female alter of types, escaping the unresolved internal crisis of his core male self.

Honestly, I sincerely wish modern psychology would treat this by means of exploring the trauma done to the core identity, rather than lop something off, glue something on, or give puberty blockers to youth. This is insane on a level I can't even afford words for! The solution to an identity crisis isn't surgery, it's talking it out, introspection, therapy (means to recover), and coming to understand what you just went though and why.

I think society really needs to stop normalizing this type of stuff. It's NOT normal or natural, just as body dysmorphia isn't normal or natural, and just as transageism, transspeciesism, transracialism... isn't normal or natural.

... Meh ...
Last edit: 21 Aug 2019 14:55 by Phoenix Vidensia.

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21 Aug 2019 15:32 - 21 Aug 2019 15:36 #341539 by Brick
I have my own thoughts and opinions on this (which I'll share in due course), but first I have a couple of queries that I think it useful to clarify before others see this and the thread quickly dissolves into chaos:

1. When you say that you have 'come to the conclusion...' is this conclusion based on empirical/anecdotal/observational evidence?

2. When you say that certain things aren't 'normal', can you define 'normal' for the purposes of, and within the context of, this discussion?

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Last edit: 21 Aug 2019 15:36 by Brick.
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21 Aug 2019 15:39 #341541 by Phoenix Vidensia

Brick wrote: I have my own thoughts and opinions on this (which I'll share in due course), but first I have a couple of queries that I think it useful to clarify before others see this and the thread quickly dissolves into chaos:

1. When you say that you have 'come to the conclusion...' is this conclusion based on empirical/anecdotal/observational evidence?

2. When you say that certain things aren't 'normal', can you define 'normal' for the purposes of, and within the context of, this discussion?


1. Personal experience, observation, compiling data.

2. Not normal, a minority position. (Less than 1% of the human population is "x"). However, being genius also isn't normal. So... context is as clear as I think I can get it.

... Meh ...
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21 Aug 2019 15:50 #341542 by Carlos.Martinez3
I’ve never understood why people have beef with what other people choose. If you identify - then identify. Doesn’t add gas to my car. If ya need to use the restroom in my house - use it- ain’t gunna ask if ya squat or not... just go. People shame chickens for being chickens ... seen the meme threads - kinna giggled but humans will point fun and make fun of everything. Identification is a key thing to a modern day Jeddist - maybe even human beings. Identify - choose your labels - make your choices. I look forward to the day we as humans allow other humans to be human and stop getting thrown off by every little thing we don’t find ... agreeable. Some days we don’t have to walk hand and hand at all but we do have to walk... Jedi themselves have identity issues ... good luck choosing. Happy seeking and May the Force be with us all.

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21 Aug 2019 15:53 #341543 by Phoenix Vidensia

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: I’ve never understood why people have beef with what other people choose. If you identify - then identify. Doesn’t add gas to my car. If ya need to use the restroom in my house - use it- ain’t gunna ask if ya squat or not... just go. People shame chickens for being chickens ... seen the meme threads - kinna giggled but humans will point fun and make fun of everything. Identification is a key thing to a modern day Jeddist - maybe even human beings. Identify - choose your labels - make your choices. I look forward to the day we as humans allow other humans to be human and stop getting thrown off by every little thing we don’t find ... agreeable. Some days we don’t have to walk hand and hand at all but we do have to walk... Jedi themselves have identity issues ... good luck choosing. Happy seeking and May the Force be with us all.


Clearly some. Do you speak for ALL?

... Meh ...
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21 Aug 2019 16:05 #341544 by Carlos.Martinez3
Never -only as me relaying what I myself know. Personally first hand.

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21 Aug 2019 16:18 - 21 Aug 2019 16:19 #341545 by Brick

Phoenix Vidensia wrote: I've come to conclude that gender dysphoria is in many cases, connected to an overarching identity issue.


This makes sense to a degree, I think it understandable for a person who believes themselves to be 'other' inside to who they are outside, would have identity issues. However, how do you know that Gender Dysphoria is a result of a deeper identity issue rather than a deeper identity issue occurring as a result of Gender Dysphoria?

Phoenix Vidensia wrote: Curiously, it's actually the same issue I have found in people who are fully inked, having many peircings, scarification, dermal implants, "unique" hair colors and cuts. While I'm not professing that every girl with hot pink hair and tattoos is mentally ill, I am leaning strongly to believe they have an identity issue...


Again I can see the logic behind this, as again this is a case of people trying to express an 'inside' that is different to their natural 'outside', but how is expressing yourself through tattoos/piercings/hair colours and different to expressing yourself through art or expressive dance etc? Also, the likes of tattoos/piercings/scarification exist and have existed since tribal times so maybe this sort of thing is actually pretty normal? Maybe we're the ones with the identity issues as we reject something which has been part of the human experience since its early inception?

Phoenix Vidensia wrote: ...just like the bearded guy wearing a dress and fake knockers, claiming to be a woman, does. I strongly believe he's disassociating into a female alter of types, escaping the unresolved internal crisis of his core male self.


Not the most diplomatically worded way of phrasing that, but ok. If the person in question is 'claiming to be a woman', then you clearly don't think they fit your definition of 'woman'. So what do you define as a 'woman'? Is there a physical/psychological/genetic requirement?

Why does the desire to be 'woman' suggest an 'unresolved internal crisis of his core male self'? Is a brunette dyeing their hair blonde a result of an unresolved internal crisis of their core brunette self?

Phoenix Vidensia wrote: Honestly, I sincerely wish modern psychology would treat this by means of exploring the trauma done to the core identity, rather than lop something off, glue something on, or give puberty blockers to youth.


What evidence is there that modern psychology doesn't first explore trauma before doing this? And what evidence is there that everyone who wants lop something off, glue something on, or give puberty blockers to youth actually has any trauma to explore in the first place?

Generally speaking, I agree with you about giving puberty blockers to youths. I've never met a pre-pubescent who I think knows if that is something they would genuinely want or not.

Phoenix Vidensia wrote: This is insane on a level I can't even afford words for! The solution to an identity crisis isn't surgery, it's talking it out, introspection, therapy (means to recover), and coming to understand what you just went though and why.


Assuming that this is all caused by an identity crisis.

Phoenix Vidensia wrote: I think society really needs to stop normalizing this type of stuff. It's NOT normal or natural, just as body dysmorphia isn't normal or natural, and just as transageism, transspeciesism, transracialism... isn't normal or natural.


If Body Dysmorphia isn't 'normal' (a quick Google search suggests it effects roughly 2-3% of people), then maybe the treatment for it shouldn't be 'normal' either?

I disagree with you statement that it isn't 'natural' though. There is nothing to suggest that just because something isn't 'normal', that it also isn't 'natural'. The two aren't mutually inclusive/exclusive. I don't know enough about transageism, but there are plenty of examples in nature where one species is raised by another species and so behaves like that species, so maybe transspeciesism is a thing? Likewise, what race would clarify an albino born to black parents? Should they class themselves as one raise and have no desire to identify as another?

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Last edit: 21 Aug 2019 16:19 by Brick.
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21 Aug 2019 17:36 #341547 by SilverGear
I think in order to get down to the bottom line we have to ask ourselves "what is gender? and how does it relate to a persons sex?"
I was born with De la Chapelle syndrome. It's an intersex condition where someone has female chromosomes (XX) and a male development. I was raised as male and had all the male parts and such. It wasn't until around 14 that my mother got ancestry DNA test done on her and I (My father refused to participate so I was his stand in) that got the ball rolling for a diagnoses. I had always thought I identified as male until I found out that I genetically wasn't male. After the diagnoses it was like a switch got flipped in my brain and I started noticing I really identified as female and I just never let myself see it until that point.

So is gender a social construct? Is it psychological, physical, or chemical in nature?

In my case I feel it was physical or chemical (brain chemistry or structure of the brain kind of thing). I know it is kind of a rhetorical question as medical literature is all over the place on it. But I feel like these questions need to be addressed before someone can judge what gender dysphoria means. How can the meaning of a thing be determined if we don't know exactly what the thing is?
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21 Aug 2019 17:43 #341548 by rugadd
I think a persons identity is 100% unique to that persons....everything. Perspective, genes, raising, life experience, chromosomes...this isn't something a person can dismiss as column A or B. We each are unique beings part of a unique whole. For some, they won't accept anything but a binary. it's part of who they are. For others an infinite number of acceptable answers. The thing to remember is that very impermanence: no definition we give our selves for what someone else is has anything to do with any perspective but our own. The real question is, are we content with the view we hold to?

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21 Aug 2019 17:46 - 21 Aug 2019 17:58 #341549 by Arinme
Most of this is projection, and I'm extremely offended.

Do not listen to anything she says.
Last edit: 21 Aug 2019 17:58 by Arinme.
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