Arguing for Argument's Sake, or, The Ego Running Wild

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20 Feb 2019 05:46 #334565 by Adder

Manu wrote: Funky usernames and cool avatars already allow for a great deal of anonymity, and ego’s running wild.

I say... let them run. And let them clash with others, and trip and fall. Isn’t that how we all learned to walk? Tripping and testing limits?


In the playground yeah, but not in the church.... my old man had to pay a few hundred bucks when I kicked a hole clean through the religious classrooms door at age 9. A fair bit out of character mind you, I blame possession :D

I guess it depends why people come to the forum. I've always felt that 'testing' and 'pushing' people was best done within an established training structure so that it could be better managed and abuse avoided - as I'm not interested in a pretend'y survival of the strongest environment. But as said elsewhere, I enjoy structure and working the system to benefit, so perhaps its just how people enjoy themselves and why the rules try to serve as a backstop in case people start enjoying themselves at others expense.

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20 Feb 2019 08:20 #334580 by Loudzoo
Sometimes synthesis is worth pursuing, sometimes it isn’t. Depends on how valuable the product is.

When it comes to someone’s long-term spiritual welfare I believe synthesis is worth pursuing - no matter how it looks to somebody else. It can be messy sometimes but that’s ok!

N.B. Synthesis is not the same as ‘conversion’! It’s finding, establishing and growing a new shared paradigm.

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Before the truth will set you free, it'll piss you off (MANTRA ~ Bring Me the Horizon)
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20 Feb 2019 10:52 #334585 by Arisaig

Manu wrote: Funky usernames and cool avatars already allow for a great deal of anonymity, and ego’s running wild.

I say... let them run. And let them clash with others, and trip and fall. Isn’t that how we all learned to walk? Tripping and testing limits?


I agree. Already, as it is, this forum allows a great deal of anonymity. Not all are anonymous, but a few are, and we simply know them by a username and avatar, rather than who they actually are, their voice, et cetera.

You look at a place like... i dunno, Reddit, that allows for people to post under the name anonymous... yeah.... that's a place where trolls can not only survive, but thrive.

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The Fulcrum Knight of the Order of Onyx
Jedi Battlemaster

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Training Master: Zenchi
Apprentice: Open for Application
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20 Feb 2019 11:31 #334587 by Gisteron
There used to be a time where we would insert our legal names and dates of birth in the Simple Oath. It isn't required to begin studies anymore, but there is no getting to knighthood still without either sacrificing anonymity or lying in the Solemn Vow, if the FAQ is to be believed.
There exist entirely anonymous platforms, 4chan most notably, where no two messages can be reliably connected to the same user. Whilst some of the nastiest sounding messages on the internet can be found there, so can be some of the most genuine and honest and indeed productive discussions. The safety granted by anonymity releases users of the need to warp their behaviour to fit the persona they had established and allows them to speak in jest or honesty instead, as they freely choose. Something like Anonymous with its moves against the abusive practices of the Church of Scientology, it's active cyberwar against the Islamic State, and the general opposition to corruption through blowing whistles and protecting those who do exists on such a scale pretty much because of the name of the game.
That being said, I don't think that this place necessarily requires some kind of anonymous subsection. Sure, some good may come of it, and what ever ill would I don't believe could actually harm anyone, but frankly there are other places to go for that and because of that anonymity there is nothing one couldn't say out there that one would say here.

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20 Feb 2019 13:43 #334595 by Manu

Adder wrote:

Manu wrote: Funky usernames and cool avatars already allow for a great deal of anonymity, and ego’s running wild.

I say... let them run. And let them clash with others, and trip and fall. Isn’t that how we all learned to walk? Tripping and testing limits?


In the playground yeah, but not in the church.... my old man had to pay a few hundred bucks when I kicked a hole clean through the religious classrooms door at age 9. A fair bit out of character mind you, I blame possession :D

I guess it depends why people come to the forum. I've always felt that 'testing' and 'pushing' people was best done within an established training structure so that it could be better managed and abuse avoided - as I'm not interested in a pretend'y survival of the strongest environment. But as said elsewhere, I enjoy structure and working the system to benefit, so perhaps its just how people enjoy themselves and why the rules try to serve as a backstop in case people start enjoying themselves at others expense.


I do agree we shouldn’t be tripping up toddlers (and laughing about it) and then justify it as teaching them to better walk. Haha.

“Remember, rewards come in action, not in discussion.” Tony Robbins
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20 Feb 2019 14:59 #334602 by Carlos.Martinez3
In my path I often define and set words for myself to know my limits and help remind me of my choices.
Quibble
Quibbler
This word helps me keep my points or my focus often. If I find myself quibbling , I know it’s time to re evaluate and re focus.

Quibbling - when ya see it - you can identify it and make your own decisions for yourself !

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Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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20 Feb 2019 20:23 #334616 by Arisaig
A thought that came to mind just now... a major plague of the discussions here is the inability to actualise an argument.

Of course, this doesn't apply to all people. There are some great minds here, or at least many understanding ones that are willing to take the time to understand both sides of an idea before immediately disagreeing or playing devils advocate for the fun of it.

I feel we should perhaps look into having a lesson in the IP on exactly that, being able to look at two sides of an argument, even a side they perhaps don't agree with, and being able to listen to and understand the validity of both sides? I enjoy doing this for politics, listening to both sides so I can understand the worries both sides have and why they may be willing to accept or at least justify the injustices their chosen leader inflicts for their goals.

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~ IP I AP I DQS I Knight I Personal ~
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20 Feb 2019 23:33 #334642 by Gisteron
Eh.. That may work in matters of taste, but unfortunately those are the matters people feel most strongly about and avoid seeing the other side at all costs. Where on the other hand I hear people constantly call for a balanced approach, seeing both sides, is in matters of fact where there really aren't two sides to consider. Usually it goes like people who disagree with us politically are clearly both wrong and evil, but of course people opposed to vaccination may have a point we'd do well listening to. Not every argument has two sides, and not every argument doesn't. The difficult thing is to actually recognize that and to actually figure out which issue fits which of those categories.

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