What's Wrong With A Pastor of Force Practice

It's not a matter of how well the office as presented is in line with some type of Jediism. It's about whether we want the Temple to adopt this type of Jediism as the official, orthodox, true™ Jediism. It's been said enough times already in my opinion, but I guess here we go again: Individual members and visitors, and even teachers have been and are free and welcome to preach and to practice their energy work woo-woo in private and in the open all they want. Noone was ever stopping them or trying to, so this wouldn't serve to protect anything that was ever under attack to begin with. The question is whether it is desirable that TOTJO officially endorse any one interpretation of its formerly deliberately vague doctrine over others, and ontop of that, whether it is desirable that TOTJO officially endorse pseudo-scientific garbage while it's at it, when in the past it was trying so hard to not look completely ridiculous.

"Jediism is a religion based on the observance of the Force, a ubiquitous and metaphysical power that a Jedi (a follower of Jediism) believes to be the underlying, fundamental nature of the universe. Jediism finds its roots in philosophies similar to those presented in an epic space opera called “Star Wars”. It is a religion in and of itself." This is from the doctrine page.

That said it still leaves us enough room for debate on what the Force is, after all the majority of what i have been learning or trying to learn is the definition of the Force, which I have my idea of but the reality is I have 0 understanding of the actual definition nor do I truly want to identify it. Also, observance should be open to interpretation as my observance is learning to try and see what it is. As far as the title goes, it's a title, official or not it has the meaning that we place in it. Validity of force healing or not it's meh. In my opinion it should be more of a study group than an official stance but what will be with this will be.

I am only chiming is because from my perspective focusing on trying to debate the definition of the force is a relatively pointless debate without one sharing their perspective of it.

That said I'll add my perspective of the Force, my perspective is that it is the energy that moves all things, matter in fact moves solid or not quantum physics has proven (as much as the field can) that no particle is still, even at absolute 0 degrees there is still movement in particles the energy to cause this movement is still unknown as it is so minute it cannot be measured (as far as I have read, I am not expert in quantum mechanics). That said all have to exist together, matter the solidification of movement into a tangible form, time the measurement of movement wither on a macro or micro scale, energy the conduit or source of movement needed for all three to exist in a stable state. Any of these not in check and nothing truly is.

Y'all type to fast

Much Love, Respect, and Peace,
Kobos

Gisteron wrote: It's not a matter of how well the office as presented is in line with some type of Jediism. It's about whether we want the Temple to adopt this type of Jediism as the official, orthodox, true™ Jediism. It's been said enough times already in my opinion, but I guess here we go again: Individual members and visitors, and even teachers have been and are free and welcome to preach and to practice their energy work woo-woo in private and in the open all they want. Noone was ever stopping them or trying to, so this wouldn't serve to protect anything that was ever under attack to begin with. The question is whether it is desirable that TOTJO officially endorse any one interpretation of its formerly deliberately vague doctrine over others, and ontop of that, whether it is desirable that TOTJO officially endorse pseudo-scientific garbage while it's at it, when in the past it was trying so hard to not look completely ridiculous.

The doctrine itself is not vague, how we use it in everyday life is what is not defined.

jpadkins wrote:

Gisteron wrote: It's not a matter of how well the office as presented is in line with some type of Jediism. It's about whether we want the Temple to adopt this type of Jediism as the official, orthodox, true™ Jediism. It's been said enough times already in my opinion, but I guess here we go again: Individual members and visitors, and even teachers have been and are free and welcome to preach and to practice their energy work woo-woo in private and in the open all they want. Noone was ever stopping them or trying to, so this wouldn't serve to protect anything that was ever under attack to begin with. The question is whether it is desirable that TOTJO officially endorse any one interpretation of its formerly deliberately vague doctrine over others, and ontop of that, whether it is desirable that TOTJO officially endorse pseudo-scientific garbage while it's at it, when in the past it was trying so hard to not look completely ridiculous.

The doctrine itself is not vague, how we use it in everyday life is what is not defined.

It is indeed vague and very much deliberately so. It’s been our focus of attention that individual development is of the outmost importance in our faith. That contains the idea that each and every one of us needs to carefully evaluate and think about what the “Force” means to him or her. This core idea is omnipresent in the IP and later in the apprenticeship requirements. As soon as we start pre-chewing stuff for our members, this is lost and would negate anything we’ve been teaching from the beginning of this Temple until now.

The inclusion of foreign beliefs that some people of power here share and have apparently decided to propagate throughout the Temple is just the icing on the cake.

Cyan Sarden wrote: It is indeed vague and very much deliberately so. It’s been our focus of attention that individual development is of the outmost importance in our faith. That contains the idea that each and every one of us needs to carefully evaluate and think about what the “Force” means to him or her. This core idea is omnipresent in the IP and later in the apprenticeship requirements. As soon as we start pre-chewing stuff for our members, this is lost and would negate anything we’ve been teaching from the beginning of this Temple until now.

The inclusion of foreign beliefs that some people of power here share and have apparently decided to propagate throughout the Temple is just the icing on the cake.

I agree with you for the record, however, does the creation of this position give credence to the leadership recognizing energy healing as a legitimate science or that it is something worth looking at. Again, I personally think it is a topic that is best looked into as a study group for individuals to expand their understanding of the force as they choose. But, are we giving the title more attention than one needs apply?

jpadkins wrote: Jediism is a religion based on the observance of the Force, a ubiquitous and metaphysical power that a Jedi (a follower of Jediism) believes to be the underlying, fundamental nature of the universe.

That underlying fundamental nature are the 4 forces of the universe for me. However no where does the doctrine make claims in physics about how gravity works or electromagnetism. For others that force is some magical aspect of reality there is no evidence for. However once again the doctrine makes no claims about how to use that force to heal people or manipulate cause and effect. There is a reason its not defined at this level. Because if an office of reike is created others will want an office of Quantum Mechanics as well. Do you see the dilemma in this?

Study what ever aspects you want, just dont create official precedent that limits that ability for anyone else.

"created others will want an office of Quantum Mechanics as well."

You know this would be a pretty sweet position if we have any in house experts !!!!!

Much Love,
Kobos

Cyan Sarden wrote:

jpadkins wrote:

Gisteron wrote: It's not a matter of how well the office as presented is in line with some type of Jediism. It's about whether we want the Temple to adopt this type of Jediism as the official, orthodox, true™ Jediism. It's been said enough times already in my opinion, but I guess here we go again: Individual members and visitors, and even teachers have been and are free and welcome to preach and to practice their energy work woo-woo in private and in the open all they want. Noone was ever stopping them or trying to, so this wouldn't serve to protect anything that was ever under attack to begin with. The question is whether it is desirable that TOTJO officially endorse any one interpretation of its formerly deliberately vague doctrine over others, and ontop of that, whether it is desirable that TOTJO officially endorse pseudo-scientific garbage while it's at it, when in the past it was trying so hard to not look completely ridiculous.

The doctrine itself is not vague, how we use it in everyday life is what is not defined.

It is indeed vague and very much deliberately so. It’s been our focus of attention that individual development is of the outmost importance in our faith. That contains the idea that each and every one of us needs to carefully evaluate and think about what the “Force” means to him or her. This core idea is omnipresent in the IP and later in the apprenticeship requirements. As soon as we start pre-chewing stuff for our members, this is lost and would negate anything we’ve been teaching from the beginning of this Temple until now.

The inclusion of foreign beliefs that some people of power here share and have apparently decided to propagate throughout the Temple is just the icing on the cake.

This is not vague: Jediism is a religion based on the observance of the Force, a ubiquitous and metaphysical power that a Jedi (a follower of Jediism) believes to be the underlying, fundamental nature of the universe.

The practices that one creates to observe the Force in daily life or how that impacts their life, in general, is what is. The question is never what is the Force, it is what the Force means to them.

You would not go into a Christian church and say that I am a Christain but I don't believe that Christ died for your sins. Or into a Jewish Synagog and tell them you are Jewish and don't believe that there is an anthropomorphic God who created humans in his image. This is part of the definition of what it means to be of those faiths. Saying that there is not a metaphysical power that is underlying and fundamental to the nature of the universe would be the same thing. As such, having an office that would look at how that power could be directed towards a greater good be in alignment?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

jpadkins wrote: Jediism is a religion based on the observance of the Force, a ubiquitous and metaphysical power that a Jedi (a follower of Jediism) believes to be the underlying, fundamental nature of the universe.

That underlying fundamental nature are the 4 forces of the universe for me. However no where does the doctrine make claims in physics about how gravity works or electromagnetism. For others that force is some magical aspect of reality there is no evidence for. However once again the doctrine makes no claims about how to use that force to heal people or manipulate cause and effect. There is a reason its not defined at this level. Because if an office of reike is created others will want an office of Quantum Mechanics as well. Do you see the dilemma in this?

Study what ever aspects you want, just dont create official precedent that limits that ability for anyone else.

No I don't see an issue with an office of quantum mechanics if it is directed to find proof in an underlying power of the universe using the scientific method. I believe that science is coming close to finding what we call The Force in their study of Dark Matter.

I don't think Kyrin is arguing that it would be a bad thing to have offices of all sorts of Jediism interpretations including dedicated science offices. I think the point is that this is what schisms are made of. If we start doing this endorsing individual interpretations, there is no idea fringe and crazy enough we can stop before without further argument. Sure, quantum physics is by no means one of them, but if the congregation will be as sensitive about being debated with as it has been lately, having a science office will not exactly do well with their precious feelings. Those with a passion for and literacy in science are already intimidating enough to some. All this office of magic brings is risks and troubles, and at no gain, because, again, everyone is already free to preach and follow their own interpretation anyway.