I've noticed somthimg

Manu wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: As I watch the Star Wars sagas I notice the lure of the Jedi - the control and the peace in all forms of feelings and situations and the ability to gain in any place near anynone and connect with - is why I choose to be - what I am today.

I think this ties in nicely with Ob1's post. Being able to maintain peace and calm and gain in any situation means being able to have our thoughts tested by antagonists (the antithesis part).

Yes , but is that the focus - constant testing and constant objection and constant offense and trying ? Couldn't there be another attempt along side this learning path not just only striving and pain and torture and injection and hurt ? There's gotta be another path or two right ? I mean not every one looks and learns with conflict and testing some learn with sharing and hearing . Is there a balance or I guess the purpose for posting is can we make it known and can we leave room for both paths of hard knocks and the peaceful warrior ?

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote:

Manu wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: As I watch the Star Wars sagas I notice the lure of the Jedi - the control and the peace in all forms of feelings and situations and the ability to gain in any place near anynone and connect with - is why I choose to be - what I am today.

I think this ties in nicely with Ob1's post. Being able to maintain peace and calm and gain in any situation means being able to have our thoughts tested by antagonists (the antithesis part).

Yes , but is that the focus - constant testing and constant objection and constant offense and trying ? Couldn't there be another attempt along side this learning path not just only striving and pain and torture and injection and hurt ? There's gotta be another path or two right ? I mean not every one looks and learns with conflict and testing some learn with sharing and hearing . Is there a balance or I guess the purpose for posting is can we make it known and can we leave room for both paths of hard knocks and the peaceful warrior ?

When my views are challenged I do not view that as an offense. If anything, I am appreciative of others taking their time to acknowledge and test my views.

In an online forum, attention IS respect. If I did not respect someone, I would simply not engage them at all.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Would you rather have someone care enough to tell you are wrong and give you the chance to change your thinking rather than them just let you go through life believing an incorrect thing?

1. That would depend on how likely my input is to influence their thinking in a positive direction.
2. Sometimes people are just wrong, yes. And sometimes the people who think other people are just wrong are just wrong. Et cetera, et cetera.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Yes , but is that the focus - constant testing and constant objection and constant offense and trying ? Couldn't there be another attempt along side this learning path not just only striving and pain and torture and injection and hurt ? There's gotta be another path or two right ? I mean not every one looks and learns with conflict and testing some learn with sharing and hearing . Is there a balance or I guess the purpose for posting is can we make it known and can we leave room for both paths of hard knocks and the peaceful warrior ?

I think that there is definitely a balance. There will be times where direct confrontation is necessary, but most of the time it actually isn't -- thought it can certainly be hard for people to recognize the difference. I'd love it if everyone asked themselves before posting "do I really need to say this? Is it going to make everything better?"Of course, I also realize that won't happen -- but I can focus on my own manner of responding and my own method of viewing the world. i can choose to get excited about what I see someone saying rather than get annoyed with them (or, if that's not possible, I can just not entangle myself with that particular conversation).

In my work with people interested in the specific form of Socratic Dialogue I use for the Democracy Cafe, I've found that repeated practice in this (for most people, new) way of communicating does actually create a difference with time. It can take a long while, and we have the added benefit of communicating in person (where contextual clues can help you get a good sense of what people are really feeling and needing), but I think that it can be applied in certain ways to any type of communication. I weave in NVC and Bohmian dialogue methods to my workshops, too, in order to bring people into a space that's a little more receptive to working together rather than tearing other people down. Like your signature says, "to build, not tear down." And that's exciting for me.

I've never been a big fan of how confrontational people are, or how competitive our culture tends to be -- but I've seen, too, how wonderfully cooperative, selfless, and compassionate humans can be when they're given the chance. It's a balance, as was said, but it's one that's worth trying to find.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: Does it count as "hurting someone" to disagree with them, or to tell them that they are wrong?

I think and I've noticed - my focus is not to tell others they are wrong . Why would I? What gives me the right ? What gives anynome the right ? If we believe what we believe ( inherit worth of all) how is there lines or right or wrong In that?
?

Because sometimes people are just wrong. Would you rather have someone care enough to tell you are wrong and give you the chance to change your thinking rather than them just let you go through life believing an incorrect thing?

What gives any one person here the right to say something is wrong? Dictators come and go trust me if fought a fewnin the real world . It may be wrong to my practice and not for me - but right for some one else. Who has that right ? By what authority ? ! What's right ? Are we still one sided in our Jedi ism ? Is there a right and a wrong way tonpracrice somthimg that is up to the individual themselfs not me - it's not up to me/ whatband gow you blprsctoxe or even choose to practice. This is the question. Can we as Jedi see this - can we act on our beliefs- can we make a path that includes every one able to make their own choices. Your practice has nothing to do with mine and your choices have nothing to do with my path and yet we can share ... or the common theme is to tell others they are wrong - no you cant ...because I think you can't and that's that? That is a diffrent form of Jedi ism as well so if you choose that - I am pleased to say - do you and knowni accept you and how you practice. Carry on! I hope you grow in your ways and in that faith! Every one deserves to grow.
I do as well as you . It's not dismissing you at all but saying yes to you and I see that - if that's what you wanna practice then say it own it and grow in it. I will make a seat at my table for you . Gladly . My radio name was god of war - my nickname in the army and for right reasons- in my faith I am not. I would claim Athena rather than ares in the spiritual table. Either way - in in my practice - there is a seat for all. Can we practice that?

JinhamKlyean wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Would you rather have someone care enough to tell you are wrong and give you the chance to change your thinking rather than them just let you go through life believing an incorrect thing?

1. That would depend on how likely my input is to influence their thinking in a positive direction.
2. Sometimes people are just wrong, yes. And sometimes the people who think other people are just wrong are just wrong. Et cetera, et cetera.

You are exactly correct and it is from these stances that conflict ensues. But as manu says this engagement is a form of respect and caring. I don't happen to believe that conflict can produce destruction without also producing growth. In fact I think it is the most effective form of growth. It is the difference between experiencing something for yourself vs just reading about it.

For example if I were to read about flying a plane I could learn everything I need to know about it. But if I actually go out and learn to fly, then I have first hand experience along with that knowledge. I wont learn to fly on the first attempt either but over time and trial and much error and failure, but in the end, if I keep at it I will gain not only knowledge but also experience and the combination of the two produces wisdom.

So in this sense I consider engaging with someone and telling them they are wrong about a subject or a view is a higher act of compassion than just suggesting it to them or worse yet ignoring them. Putting them through that pain may seem cruel on the surface but it has a higher purpose underneath - forcing them to defend a position with the goal of gaining wisdom through tangible experience. what I have found most times is that not only does the potential exist for them to change a worldview but most times you find your own modified for the better as well!

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: What gives any one person here the right to say something is wrong?

The Doctrine already lays down the foundations, which implies anyone in this forum should take for granted that no one here, not even Councillors, have any sort of authority or monopoly on Truth.

So, starting out with the basic premise that we simply cannot know everything for a fact, that should frame all future interactions to mean that whenever someone is saying "I am right, you are wrong", that really should translate to "Your observations do not make sense based on my experience, here is why. If you have further information, please offer a rebuttal to clarify".

I understand that the art of questioning beliefs can be tricky, because we tend to be so attached to them. But if we aren't willing to explore our deepest beliefs, then how can we expect to grow?

"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself." - Augustine of Hippo

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

JinhamKlyean wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Would you rather have someone care enough to tell you are wrong and give you the chance to change your thinking rather than them just let you go through life believing an incorrect thing?

1. That would depend on how likely my input is to influence their thinking in a positive direction.
2. Sometimes people are just wrong, yes. And sometimes the people who think other people are just wrong are just wrong. Et cetera, et cetera.

You are exactly correct and it is from these stances that conflict ensues. But as manu says this engagement is a form of respect and caring. I don't happen to believe that conflict can produce destruction without also producing growth. In fact I think it is the most effective form of growth. It is the difference between experiencing something for yourself vs just reading about it.

For example if I were to read about flying a plane I could learn everything I need to know about it. But if I actually go out and learn to fly, then I have first hand experience along with that knowledge. I wont learn to fly on the first attempt either but over time and trial and much error and failure, but in the end, if I keep at it I will gain not only knowledge but also experience and the combination of the two produces wisdom.

So in this sense I consider engaging with someone and telling them they are wrong about a subject or a view is a higher act of compassion than just suggesting it to them or worse yet ignoring them. Putting them through that pain may seem cruel on the surface but it has a higher purpose underneath - forcing them to defend a position with the goal of gaining wisdom through tangible experience. what I have found most times is that not only does the potential exist for them to change a worldview but most times you find your own modified for the better as well!

So if you want to practice that then own it! Say it . Grow in that path. Seek out those who have forged their own path if you loose your way. Many have at one time or another walked this very path. My encouragement to you is to have a "home" a idea to return to when ever you get too far from your faith. Have a place or make a place to come back to. Re focus is key and can be some times the very thing that makes or breaks and defines the fakes. There is - as I practice - a place for you at my table. Feel free to contact me if you ever need encouragment or if I can help you in any way possible. Own it - grow in it ! May the force be with you as you seek it !

This is the purpose of this thread to find who we are and to stand an own it and to rid of the needless conflict . Kyrin I hope you see my attempt to reach you . By you stating your view I can add a seat for you in my practice and accept - not tolerate you. Heck even count on you at times. Either way I hope you see there the intention is to rid the conflict and begin the connection. I do apologize for it taking me so long in my own path to see this and to be able to get to the point of actual application. ( that was to you Kyrin.) Be well and maybrhe force be with you . Feel free to add anything else as I see your side difrently now not as objection but as a clear practice of you very own way Of Jedi ism. Never contrary to mine - no longer - on side. Along with . Thank you ! I hope to build on this idea with every one and as many as possible .

I would like to make the point (& so I will):
The fact that you recurrently apologize within this post incites me to feel that you have been put to the defensive often through the course of your writings & public posts. I find that irritating, not in a suggestion of requisite incitation to make suggestion that incites redundant comment like this one, not actually, though in a context that I realize that you have been met within various groups of people with mere an intention to antagonize you & put you on the defensive.

I am Tribal Mayan in the State of Oklahoma.
I want Segregation Policies for the States of the United States of America, with inclusion Red States, Black States, a Yellow State, & White States, which have strict residency policies for each State.
I consider it terribly redundant to cite the fact that the historical crimes that the Tribal Mayans (typically referenced "Native Americans") suffered were desplicative of the continued lack of good sociological plan of invaders that made a sociological rule of "invasion, Theft, & Murder". To continue to tolerate that injustice with further lack of consideration & further imposition to the Tribal Mayans amidst the American population that already suggests themselves with a "Freedom" to commit those crimes & not be penalized, not actually, is what makes America real "terrorism".
It's 2018, there are Colleges within all 50 States of the United States of America, & my neighbors actually are people that murdered friends of my ancestors: the same friends whom were supposed to sire other Tribal Mayans, with inclusion female Tribals, & the total while I am surrounded of an obstinant American population, the descendants of those murderers, whom imply intention to continue to impose & oppress & that "believes to merely act dumb".

I will not rant about this within the Temple of the Jedi Order, not actually, though I will get away with this post, with a counter against hypothetical antagonisms that all else American is "ignorant nonsensical rambling".