Do You Need Goals?

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6 years 2 months ago #311527 by Ben
Do You Need Goals? was created by Ben
What role does goal-setting play in our lives? To what extent to do you set and pursue short/middle/long-term goals, and could you function without them?

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6 years 2 months ago #311529 by thomaswfaulkner
Replied by thomaswfaulkner on topic Do You Need Goals?
Yes!!! A forum where I can be weird and say, "Eh, goals are good if you want." I'll keep it short and sweet. I see goals the same way I see the past. They are just a place/thing to look at/towards. There is nothing wrong with having goals or remembering the past, as long as you are able to look back at the place where your body touches the ground and remember "You are here."

Goals: Good.
Attachment to Goals: That's a no go!

Goals are good in the sense that they give that point of reference that can be obtained by following a specific path. When we cling to it though, we can get stuck in all the stickiness of being a failure or we lose sight of the end state and become fixated in the chase!

By not having goals, we can learn to live with the ebbs and flow of the Force, but we lose an opportunity of exploration through various avenues that are not immediately available to us. Do we have to have them to be happy? Well, no, but if they have the chance to allow us to experience joy, then why not go for it in moderation! Just don't lose yourself. :)

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May all beings be happy and free and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life contribute
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6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #311541 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Do You Need Goals?
Much of this is inspired by Petersons "Future Authoring" concept. And now that i think of it, some iteration of that really should be added to the IP imo.

What is a goal?

"the object of a person's ambition or effort; an aim or desired result"

A goal is nothing more or less than "something you want". We could be more wordy and say "something you want to have, achieve, experience, or do"

We are so embedded within most of our goals that we dont even notice them as goals. Climbing mt Everest is a goal, sure, but so is getting up when the alarm clock goes off or making it to work on time. Doing good work when youre there is a goal, getting a degree or a passing grade is a goal. Cooking an edible dinner is a goal. Virtually everything in an adults life is the consequence of the goals he or she has pursued. We drift from goal to goal every moment of every day, and its actually not even possible to stay alive without achieving basic goals of eating.

Every single choice we make is a movement towards some goal or other. Thats so important: there is a goal embedded within every single choice, every decision that we make! The question isnt "do we need goals?" but rather "are we aware of the goals we are pursuing every day and are those really the goals we would choose if we thought seriously about it?"

Thomas, when you mentioned "learn to live with the eb and flow of the universe" you stated a goal! You think its a good thing if you can "go with the flow" and youd like to do it more ofen. "Going with the flow" is not just a goal itself; once you start doing it you find yourself taking up all the little goals that "the flow" presents to you. In my opinion its much better to pick your own goals than to let "the flow" pick them for you, but to each their own. "Taking it easy" is also a goal. You decide you dont want to work to hard or stress too, much so you take it easy... well the goal was to not have to work hard or stress too much.

We cant NOT have goals. What we can do is not acknowledge that we have goals, that are already immersed neck high in our goals... we can deny that we actually want things from our lives and neglect the responsibility of choosing our goals deliberately.

Who do you want to be? Sorry if i sound preachy but look, there is a potential YOU that you hope to become. If that werent true then you wouldnt be here. But you think this place can help you become better in some way. If you think accepting yourself for who you are is better then fine, thats still a goal. Thats stil a better you that you sre aiming at. If you think not having goals is better, lol, thats a goal too (one youll never achieve!)

Or maybe you just come here for community... thats a goal.

I think some (beautiful person/people who i like very much) will deny that they strive to be a better version of themselves (or that there IS such a thing) but the fact that we have a doctrine is all the proof you need... not only is there is a potential YOU (more compassionate or less demanding you for instance) that youre aiming for (and there SHOULD BE, thats what growing IS) but theres also a potential YOU that youd like to avoid...an unhealthy you, nastier, meaner, weaker, less compassionate, a YOU that you could become if you let yourself go, or if you follow all the worst inklings that cross your mind.

Avoiding the lesser YOU or becoming the better YOU are goals....each made up of a thousand smaller goals. But guaranteed you also want other things, like physical safety and some financial security, basic health, romance, friends, maybe you have a genuine passion youre following or some hobbies or interests that youd like to be better at, or maybe you want to "make a difference in the world"... maybe you want to have a family. If that happens you will want them to get along and love each other and youll want to teach your kids to be decent people..whatever it is, you do want something. Many things, if youre honest.

The most likely path to getting what you want is to acknowledge that you want it, and figure out what to do (aka what goals you need to achieve) in order to make it happen.

Do you think "wisdom" is to let go of all the things you want? NO! Wisdom (if i may be so bold...yes, i may!) is to understand what you want, understand why you want it and what it really means (which is freaking hard sometimes) and using that understanding to decide and pursue (only) whats truly important.

People are complicated.
Last edit: 6 years 2 months ago by OB1Shinobi.
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6 years 2 months ago #311546 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Do You Need Goals?

thomaswfaulkner wrote: Goals are good in the sense that they give that point of reference that can be obtained by following a specific path. When we cling to it though, we can get stuck in all the stickiness of being a failure or we lose sight of the end state and become fixated in the chase!


I'm waiting for someone to quote Qui-Gon's "not at the expense of the moment" speech from episode I. Anytime now... :silly:

While I do appreciate the potential for developing unbearable anxiety over unfulfilled goals, I don't think the problem in particular is related to goal-setting eclipsing living in the moment, but in a failure to observe the sometimes hidden motivations behind our goals, and in learning to manage our emotional responses to the added stress of being ambitious.

It's quite comfortable and convenient to just "let go" and fumble around wherever life will take you, in the name of living in the "ebb and flow" of the Force. I would say this notion of romanticizing non-attachment can be as detrimental if not more that the anxiety that comes from unfulfilled ambition, unless it is completely sincere.

In other words, if you are becoming a detached hermit only as a way to justify not getting what you want, you are essentially engaging in an addiction. Drink up on the freedom, yell "f#ck the system" and exhale as you see all your dreams go away.

The same can happen with goal setting. If you latch on to a goal because it is something you are "supposed to want", you are trapping yourself in a rat race for a cheese that isn't even that good.

But, when you find out what you truly want (and yes, that may include becoming a hermit), you give it your all. Living in the moment happens by itself, because your goal is your soul. You need not look elsewhere.

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
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6 years 2 months ago #311547 by
Replied by on topic Do You Need Goals?
Good philosophical question.

I would say "Yes" we need goals. Can one live without them? Most certainly. Most people seem to coast or stumble through life with no meaningful purpose or definable goals. People can therefore function without goals.The question might be, "are they truly living"?

Over the last few years my experience has been to plan and work towards goals but not project outcomes. Any one who professes to be Jedi should have goals to work towards. The trick is not to be attached to the outcome. Our resolve may be in our control but most things including the final outcome, are not.

Serenity Prayer springs to mind around the topic of doing what we can and letting go of what we can't. Having courage and acceptance.

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6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #311549 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Do You Need Goals?
I agree 100% with the spirit of your post Jonho! I do feel obliged after basically writing a novella on how people cant NOT have goals to mention the following...

Johno wrote: Most people seem to coast or stumble through life with no meaningful purpose or definable goals. People can therefore function without goals.



Technically speaking, those people do have goals, theyre just shallow goals, dedicated to momentary distraction without any sense of future investment. Generically speaking we could say their goals are all in-the-moment goals built upon the desire to be entertained and comfortable and to not have to work very hard, very often. Such people (often without even thinking of it consciously) actually make a goal out of avoiding intelligent goal setting lol

Any one who professes to be Jedi should have goals to work towards



Jedi are like the spec-ops of the galaxy. Highly specialized training and a tightly disciplined lifestyle, aka VERY goal-oriented individuals.

People are complicated.
Last edit: 6 years 2 months ago by OB1Shinobi.
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6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #311552 by
Replied by on topic Do You Need Goals?

OB1Shinobi wrote:
Technically speaking, those people do have goals, theyre just shallow goals, dedicated to momentary distraction without any sense of future investment. Generically speaking we could say their goals are all in-the-moment goals built upon the desire to be entertained and comfortable and to not have to work very hard, very often. Such people (often without even thinking of it consciously) actually make a goal out of avoiding intelligent goal setting lol


Very true. Each person has basic goals aligned to their basic needs (food, water, shelter, safety and security, reproductive potential, gene preservation etc). Those basic needs met our motivational hierarchy increases.

I would put forward that for most people that motivation would be primarily to increase their net benefit. They are stuck in a sort of hedonistic merry go round they cannot get off. Life becomes essentially a pursuit of distractions and pleasures. At the bottom end is the mindless form of hedonism and instant gratification.

At the top end of the motivational hierarchy is self actualization. The very top pinnacle which some aspire to but none ever achieve is enlightenment. In Force terms, this would be living transmutation to the Force.

The goal of a Bodhisattva is to reach enlightenment. That is the highest and most noble goal there is. Enlightenment is sought not for selfish or personal reasons but for the benefit of all living things. Therefore the goal of the Bodhisattva is to serve and be of service to others while cultivating loving kindness for others.

Goals need not be complex. They can be inherent in how we choose to live our life. If a person's goal is to do nothing and they achieve that goal then all is well. If a person has no goal at all and rushes aimlessly through life, in the view of many philosophies they have not truly lived but simply expended time to no purpose at all. The difference is self awareness.

I have seen people who have spent their lives living simply and have nothing material to show for it but have led meaningful lives in doing very little. They are happy. I also have seen people caught in the corporate rat race or meat grinder who have plenty of toys and money but are unhappy and have no tangible goal other than to replace whatever item they pursued because it failed to provide lasting happiness and fulfillment.

We live in times where a sort of existential crisis exists among people. I sometimes ask, "what's the point and purpose of all of this". Society seems to be stuck in a paradigm where nothing matters least of all meaningful goals. The only thing that keeps me going are principles and goals. They are like the compass and rudder in my life.
Last edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Adder.

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6 years 2 months ago #311579 by
Replied by on topic Do You Need Goals?
As Obi says we need goals to live but we also need attachment to those goals. Fear of failure produces this attitude towards non-attachment but its a false attitude. If we are not attached to our goals that just produces excuses and mediocrity. Neither of which are desired or productive. Do you want to be the best Jedi you can be or do you want to be a mediocre Jedi? You see the goal doesn't matter, but your attitude toward it does.

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6 years 2 months ago #311594 by
Replied by on topic Do You Need Goals?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: As Obi says we need goals to live but we also need attachment to those goals. Fear of failure produces this attitude towards non-attachment but its a false attitude. If we are not attached to our goals that just produces excuses and mediocrity. Neither of which are desired or productive. Do you want to be the best Jedi you can be or do you want to be a mediocre Jedi? You see the goal doesn't matter, but your attitude toward it does.


Yes, the attitude is the most important part. But it works both ways. Obsess too much over that goal and you will miss everything. We cannot lose our awareness of the moment.

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6 years 2 months ago - 6 years 2 months ago #311606 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Do You Need Goals?

JLSpinner wrote:
Yes, the attitude is the most important part. But it works both ways. Obsess too much over that goal and you will miss everything. We cannot lose our awareness of the moment.


Would you say that keeping your awareness focused on the present moment is something that youve identified as being potentially able to improve something about yourself or your life in some way, and have accepted as an ongoing priority to which you consciously adhere or aspire to adhere?

In other words, would you say that "practicing mindfulness" is one of your current life-goals?

People are complicated.
Last edit: 6 years 2 months ago by OB1Shinobi.
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