About THAT video and what it means to "Build Up"

OB1Shinobi wrote: stuff about women protesters around the world and then a video of a woman being decapitated in the streets of saudi arabia

Zenchi wrote: It is overkill, tasteless, and does not belong here, period.....

Tellahane wrote: I'm sorry I'm going to have ask that the video be removed from that post. There are minors that can open that up and still see it on this site right now. That is not knowledge they are ready for, you want to talk about it is one thing to graphically see it is another. Or move this thread to somewhere more private and safe.

i understand where youre coming from, but...

ren wrote: Someone filmed the real world, the same real world we live in. here it was.

exactly!
thats exactly the idea that i am hoping to get across

i dont presume to know what anyone else comes to totjo for or to know the full scope of what totjo should be, but i will say that if youre coming here to be protected from the tragedy and the brutality of life then i think youre in the wrong place

while it does offer community of support, i would tell you that at heart this place is not a sanctuary, it is a dojo; its a place where you learn how to defend yourself from the multitude of forces in the world that will absolutely devour you or grind you down to dust if you face them unprepared -even if youre "prepared" there are no guarantees- life is dangerous and tragic

the number of such forces and our exact proximity to any of them at any given time is probably incalculable (its certainly much larger than any single person could account for) and none of us have to face all of them, or face any of them all the time, but all of us have to face some of them at some time, and if your experiences here dont arm you and fortify you for those encounters then basically "the system" here is failing you

so i would say that when you come here you should be prepared to confront and to be confronted with things that make you uncomfortable

@Tellahane, i did read your second post and im not ignoring you or trying to disregard the points you raised. i want to address these ideas first because i think they are more directly relevant to the community in general.
you brought up some points worth discussing and i will try to get a response to you but it will probably take a little while.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Can we build rather than tare down ? Possible ?

im sorry that the first attempt at this conversation didnt go too well with you carlos.
i honestly dont understand what you meant here or who it was addressed to, but "building people up" is precisely what i am attempting to do

im not the only one who sees it that way, i think...follow me to the reply!

JamesSand wrote: some may see it like sculpting - cutting away the excess to leave what is needed :side:

Magnus Staar wrote: Muscles require being "torn down" before they can be built up stronger.

when i think of "building up" i think of building muscle too. it has to be done systematically and intelligently or else you get hurt, but building muscle is a process of HARD WORK. you have to constantly put yourself under pressure and maintain a level of tension that is very close to the limits of what you can handle.

building up skill at jiu jitsu is another good example; the first stage of jiujitsu for most people is very tough, because someone who is good at it can simply dominate you. someone half your size can hold you down and just smother the air right out of you. youjust cannot escape the positions that a good submissions person can place you in until youve done it a lot of times, and every move you make to free yourself actually works in their favor while they (perhaps) slowly and inexorably inch closer and closer to choking you unconscious or breaking your arm.

when you come face to face with your own vulnerability, your feelings about the issue are completely irrelevant.
its a very humbling experience and it is difficult to return to it after its happened a couple of times, but if you keep walking into the forge it will eventually turn you into steel

i also think of this:

Proteus wrote: I think the metaphor of sculpting is adequate. The thing is, we might not be very productive to use a wrecking ball to do it. It's a subtle process that is done carefully and considerately....

well based on the youtube video i saw on the topic (which makes me a de-facto expert) it looks like the first stages of sculpting are pretty rough a lot of the time. youve got this big slab of marble and maybe more than half of it is just useless bulk that has be summarily removed before the delicate work can begin. you dont want to be TOO rough or else you break the whole thing, but youre definitely not being gentle either. at least not in the beginning

i think its like that with people too, but i do acknowledge your point.

for my part, i push boundaries, and that means i inevitably cross lines sometimes.
all i can tell you is that i am contributing the best of the lessons that ive derived out of my own experiences, to the best of my abilities. however it may come across, i do care about this community and i am trying to interacting a way that benefits people even if it doesnt usually give them fuzzy giggles

@obie
Intention is obvious to me when you post . I choose to not be a hinderance to any one here. If it means me not responding then I take my leave
My pm box is always open
May you find the Force where you seek it

for my part, i push boundaries, and that means i inevitably cross lines sometimes.
all i can tell you is that i am contributing the best of the lessons that ive derived out of my own experiences, to the best of my abilities. however it may come across, i do care about this community and i am trying to interacting a way that benefits people even if it doesnt usually give them fuzzy giggles

I dont think anybody is implying that you should not push boundaries , we try to see what fits in with what we want to show to the people that visit our forums and what they can learn to expand their knowledge , we as moderator have to ensure the free flow of ideas so long as they are within the limits of TotJO policy.

As to the reactions to the videos you posted , when you post something , expect reactions , when you post a bunny i assume you expect comments relating to that maybe to be postiive ? When you post a video of a woman being beheaded you get other responses , its all in the eye of the beholder

Just because we dont like your video does not mean we dont love you

OB1Shinobi wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: stuff about women protesters around the world and then a video of a woman being decapitated in the streets of saudi arabia

Zenchi wrote: It is overkill, tasteless, and does not belong here, period.....

Tellahane wrote: I'm sorry I'm going to have ask that the video be removed from that post. There are minors that can open that up and still see it on this site right now. That is not knowledge they are ready for, you want to talk about it is one thing to graphically see it is another. Or move this thread to somewhere more private and safe.

i understand where youre coming from, but...

ren wrote: Someone filmed the real world, the same real world we live in. here it was.

exactly!
thats exactly the idea that i am hoping to get across

i dont presume to know what anyone else comes to totjo for or to know the full scope of what totjo should be, but i will say that if youre coming here to be protected from the tragedy and the brutality of life then i think youre in the wrong place

That's bullshit.

Myself, and many other members of TOTJO have firsthand experience and knowledge of the brutalities of life. We don't go around flaunting those experiences in others faces however.

What you did was a masochistic display in promoting the suffering of others to further your own agenda. I've seen people die in front of me before, and it's not something anyone needs to witness first hand in order to fully comprehend the oppression and prejudice that certain groups face around the world.

Intention is obvious to me when you post . I choose to not be a hindrance to any one here. If it means me not responding then I take my leave

That doesn't fit with the philosophy as described - Response and discussion is encouraged (not so much with censure) - Your response has elicited this, and we're all the better for it, so to all - bravo.

What you did was a masochistic display in promoting the suffering of others to further your own agenda. I've seen people die in front of me before, and it's not something anyone needs to witness first hand in order to fully comprehend the oppression and prejudice that certain groups face around the world.

it was...grisly, and possibly excessive for the message intended, I'll grant you, and that's a matter of nuance and tact for Ob1 to master - any feedback to that end is well founded.

The message itself (I believe) - Don't miss the point of humanity for the sake of a few well off white girls patting themselves on the back for getting cheap drinks and blowing up on instagram - I can't say for the rest of the world, but it strikes me as a good message in my circumstances - I live in a very insular and self involved community, where "women's issues" seem to be whether or not there are enough 14+ size stores in shopping malls, or whether or not they should open a female only crossfit box down the road.
A bit of context, nasty though it is, is not out of order.

when you post a bunny i assume you expect comments relating to that maybe to be positive ?

Bunnies are pests. They get 'sploded even more than Foxes around here

OB1Shinobi wrote: i dont presume to know what anyone else comes to totjo for or to know the full scope of what totjo should be, but i will say that if youre coming here to be protected from the tragedy and the brutality of life then i think youre in the wrong place

Is this really about protection though? Or is it about productive learning? Is it really a good idea to go about traumatizing people such as minors into PTSD in order to do so? Would that really "teach" them anything?

Aside from that principle there is also the one regarding respect for the rules of the site and how content that is that explicit should be handled and why. It shouldn't be difficult to really know why. When that video was posted, that was disrespect toward those rules (the spirit of the rules in particular), and posting this thread in order to further justify it is only digging the hole deeper.

These things happen. It would be dishonest to act as if they don't. Personally, I don't pay much credence to the "think of the children!" argument. When I was a child, I saw some terrible things. I've seen videos similar to the one in question before, and as a child. But any kid with a TV can watch The Walking Dead and see brutality and bloodshed. There are horrific and violent scenes beamed into family room television sets every minute. One video is real and the other is not, but the images are essentially the same. If cable TV doesn't want to censor horrific scenes, the children will see them anyway.

But there is a time and a place for everything, and perhaps that wasn't the right time or place to post that.

You just made an excellent argument as to why censorship should be kept in place, and increase in restriction as opposed to continue to decrease as it has done.

Death, violence, and bloodshed should never be normalized or made into a form of casual entertainment.

OB1Shinobi wrote: while it does offer community of support, i would tell you that at heart this place is not a sanctuary...

I dunno, man... I feel like I need to argue semantics here.

temple
noun
4. an edifice erected as a place of public worship; a church, especially a large or imposing one.

sanctuary
noun
1. a sacred or holy place.

I mean... :dry:

While I agree with you on principle (it seems to me that the point of being a Jedi is to acknowledge the reality of the world, and make an effort to preserve the good and change the bad)... I hope you at least had a warning. Some people can't take that kind of thing, and it's also kind of a good Jedi trait to have tact and maybe not impose unwanted stress upon others.

And sure, we should learn to find inner strength to take that in stride and fight back, and calm the emotional turmoil, and whatnot... but... you don't have to teach someone to swim by throwing them into the deep end.