(Insert Title Here) Pride

We know from science that race doesn't exist . We know that titles, such as "marine" or "union worker" or "Jedi", are social constructions. Why is it, then, that people take pride in their titles and what groups they belong to?
I don't think it's a good thing to have "black pride" or "gay pride". These are artificial titles which serve only to divide us. They exist to say "This person is different from me". And this kind of pride is really different from things that we tend to be proud of in different situations. I can be proud, for example, of a beautiful piece of art that I have created. Or after having success in my endeavors, I can be proud. One can take pride in saving lives (as a doctor), yet it appears to me that people choose to instead take pride in being part of a group that saves lives (such as, a group of people defined by their profession of medical doctor).
The difference, to me, is massive. It pushes the subject of pride from one's own actions to the group that one belongs to, or the title that one has. Really, who cares if someone has "black pride"? Woo-hoo, good for you! You're part of a group loosely defined by nothing other than skin color, good job. But protesting for the civil rights of African-Americans is a completely legitimate thing to be proud of. Helping to change the nation to end segregation is something to be proud of. It really seems to me that those who take pride in their group or title (black, white, Jedi, Muslim, doctor, lawyer, etc) are unfairly taking pride in the actions of others. Why should anyone be proud of what someone else who has nothing to do with them has done? If the only similarity between the two people is skin color, how can there be any justification for that at all?

Overall I'm very much against the idea of "(x) pride". I see it as something which widens the space between us as human beings and makes people cling too tightly to their artificial and pointless groups. But I wanted to get some input from the Jedi community. Do you support having group pride? Do you have "black pride" or "white pride" or any other kind of group pride? And why?

TheDude wrote: Why is it, then, that people take pride in their titles and what groups they belong to?
Do you support having group pride? Do you have "black pride" or "white pride" or any other kind of group pride? And why?

To quote from The Wedding Crashers, "people helping people"! We are quite social creatures, even the introverts in their own way, and so... any excuse for a party!!! It is probably good for positive mental health within marginalized groups to have overt positive associations and activities which relate to those attributes which are otherwise associated to their experience of marginalization. So yea I support it to an extent but I don't personally have any 'group' requirement besides the normal human needs for positive living in a chaotic world.

I think that the tendancy towards (x) pride in some cases is a direct response to oppression.
If someone or some group says of another someone or group that they ought to feel shame because of their membership within a group and they find others in their group and they get together to decise what they ought to be proud of.

Then there is also a matter of shared experience

I think that pride will lead us to think that we are perfect and better than others. If we humble ourselves then the Force can enter us without a blockade; we can become, in a way, as pure as we ever can be.

Rosalyn J wrote: I think that the tendancy towards (x) pride in some cases is a direct response to oppression.

I agree. "Black pride" arises as a response to White pride, for example. The problem is when the original counter-culture movement gets twisted into something divisive, as you said in your original post TheDude. It's the same thing that happened to feminism: what started as a counter-culture to "machismo" (chauvinism), and sought out equality, got somewhere along the way twisted into female supremacy (not in the entire group, of course, but in quite a few members). The divisiveness does nothing to solve the problem, because in itself elicits a similar response from the "original" oppressive group.

You can't get rid of these groups however, as for some people, this fight is very real. Despite how far we've come as a society, there are still LGBT members being oppressed, there are still black people being oppressed by white. So the group serves as a reminder to the individual, saying "you are not alone, we are in this together".

How exactly to separate the power of unity from the danger of exclusiveness, however, is a very good question.

I disagree on points. The thought of "Black Pride" should not and can not foster a "White Pride" movement. It is obvious that we are all proud of what we are, but to understand black pride, we have to trace the history of Africans and their descendants in the world, especially in America. Blacks were treated as something of value and importance less than an animal, as an object or even less. When blacks are freed, freedom is illusion, since no one considered blacks as people, so from that time until today, blacks have to fight to be heard and for their culture to be placed in the place of importance to so many others, as history Human. Whites such as myself did not have their culture suppressed, they were not treated as objects and properties; Some will cite the Jews in World War II, but the blacks were also and more than the Jews, because the Jews are a people of a country, the blacks are a whole ethnicity, with multiple countries. So whites should not hit their breasts and say they are white proud, that's stupid, black people have that space and that voice right, just like other groups.

As TheDude wrote, the human need to have a sense of community is a major deciding factor in the choices and affiliations we make.

Unless someone were to restructure the way society functions in an effort to discourage group affiliation rather than necessitate it, I don't see how the modern world has any real hope of getting away from this way of thinking.

In its place would have to be formed a societal structure that genuinely operated upon a foundation of interconnectedness and total equality for such a change to be effective at replacing these attitudes.

In shorter terms, all you need to do is completely reprogram the human condition.

Kohadre wrote: In shorter terms, all you need to do is completely reprogram the human condition.

So beautiful but so romantic brother. How do you propose to do this? How do you propose to talk about equality when social demands are different?

Whilst I tend to agree (in very rough terms) that (x) Pride is a crock....

I also see it's value, it is (generally) taken up by groups that have strong detractors, so they form a #Hashtag to get together and carry on.

Now it'd be great if every individual in the world had the

A. Self esteem.
B. Resources,

to not give a toss about their detractors, but that's not the case, so I don't begrudge them their marketing campaigns. (Hard to tell sometimes whether they are trying to convince others, or themselves that they are "valid" )

Of course, it's still up to public image to decide which "prides" are acceptable....

Blackpride, Fatpride, Gaypride all seem to fly.

I don't see too many BigamyPride bumper stickers...




As for Profession-Pride type things.

I have no idea? Is this even a thing?
I've heard of people bragging about being Veterans, and I've seen "I Fish and I Vote" slogans.


I guess people take pride in being a Doctor, Mechanic, Space Wizard, because it's something they've worked towards.

It's part of our culture "Put in X Time and Dollars, and you can have Y title"
When it's cost you so much, it's hard not to brag about it.

And I think that has value as well.
Let's keep using Doctors, since you started with it - by having Pride associated with the profession, you're not just relying on your actual qualifications, or your desire to help someone on any given day (for a paycheck or otherwise), but on the reputation of the profession.

being a Doctor is bigger than any individual doctor (except The Doctor?), when you are proud of being a part of the whole, you hold yourself the standards of the whole - ie

WWADD? (What Would A Doctor Do?) + Pride in being a Doctor = Results.

Kyber wrote: I disagree on points. The thought of "Black Pride" should not and can not foster a "White Pride" movement.

And yet it does.

Anyone who has a minimum of education can reach the same conclusion as you do, but when people who have been oppressed band together, sometimes than anger, instead of dissipating through compassion, intensifies.

When a white person is harassed by black activists who claim to want equality, but really want revenge (which again, is not the norm, but happens), and coupled with genuinely innocent circumstances that might hinder this person (for example, getting passed up for a promotion because there is a minority quota to fill), it can generate some anger as well.

Add to that the fact that this white person did not experience first hand slavery, nor did he have any hand in it, and you have a white guy who is being discriminated against. Or at least it feels that way to him.

It's aggressiveness and divisiveness that pushes him to "white pride", not ideology necessarily.