Suicide

MrBruno wrote: So I would like to know from you, what you think about it and have had the experience of a suicide attempt by you or someone they know.

Not I, but have known. I take a hard biological view.... as in the bodies function is survival and therefore suicide is a aberrant mode of operation and thus the result of some external influence/s - in which case I say, just say no. Don't give the bast@rds what they want, instead survive to regroup and fight another day.

My deepest depression was when I was quite young so it never entered my mind as I was too curious about my own reaction and in a safe enough environment to retreat to go deep and dark. But I have been with a person who was at that point more then once - but that is easier because your right there. Its hard to tell someone they are not alone.... when they might physically be alone!!! But it depends, some people might be at wits end for the exact opposite reason.

So whatever the reason, I tend to think of it as a type of psychotic state; a peak low of depressive disorder... and these things are within the capacity of all minds given the wrong set of circumstances. The brain seems capable of seeing the world in diverse ways and one of those is as a place to check out of, unfortunately. But if anyone has ever taken drugs, you'd know the brain can be misleading and ya gotta just realize its a err momentary lapse of reason, dressed 'as' reason. And then of course reasons can infinitely various, and so there is not one right (or indeed any wrong answer) in broad terms - each person is experiencing unique circumstances, with I imagine its own unique set of antidotes.

But some people seem to be more susceptible, many of them seem to be able to develop long term coping mechanisms, but most everyone is capable of experiencing it IMO.

Here in Australia its often said the local indigenous peoples are more susceptible, especially if they are locked up in a room, and I've seen this to potentially be true. I think then it seems indigenous populations and victims of systematic abuse are more vulnerable - as it looks like anyone who experienced long periods of fear might develop a higher baseline of anxiety and a reflexive fear reaction to negative stimulus - which might make things be experienced worse and worse faster then other people. Such that indigenous populations who lived in the bush for example, might have a genetic predisposition to higher levels of alertness as a basis for their survival in the wild... and when carried over into 'western' society it might not translate so well to coping with the different type of stress, maybe. You can imagine how abuse then might impact, and now we know epigenetics can pass on various traits of the parents (mostly mothers) life experiences as well onto the unborn child - and considering how women have been treated throughout history, zero worth possessions and sex objects etc.... you'd think it should be a good reason to treat women extra well!!! But I'm getting off topic


I'm also against non-depressive suicide, such as for medical conditions, but that is just a personal decision as someone who does suffer a pain related condition. Ya never know what breakthrough might be around the corner, and it would be sad to choose to leave just before something might be discovered which could have changed your circumstance for the better. I tend to believe in the power of hope, but it seems to require a lot of ongoing positive reinforcement which is both genuinely not unrealistic but also not at the cost of others. Sort of a view of empathy and compassion. It need not translate too much into action to be effective, but does need to be ongoing in mind IMO and indeed seems to be the best way for me to view the Buddhist Noble 8fold path, rather then how its often translated. We might not notice how much we talk ourselves down because we think its justified, and so talking ourselves up feels fake - at first. But that is what change is, and eventually the tables can turn IMO.

I'm bound by certain laws that prevent me from discussing suicide openly :huh:


However, on a not-necessarily-suicide note

All I know is that in my opinion, with some exception, there are ways that life can get better. In my opinion it is better to take steps to better your life than end it in most cases. Also, know that you don't have to do it alone.

You get into an elevator, the big steel doors close.

You're not worried, you know they open in a minute. You've been in elevators before.

First time children get into an elevator and experience the big steel box? They are significantly less calm. They don't know what happens next. If you don't *know* the big steel doors are going to open, then until they do - You are trapped in a box forever.

(okay, plenty of children are chill as, but I'm trying to paint a picture here)

Trisskar wrote: The thing I learned about though through her is....(In some cases).... When a person reaches that state, it is damnably impossible to convince them otherwise. And the more you try....the worst it gets.

This is so far from universally true that it might actually be harmful.

MartaLina wrote: Bruno :

This post is a tribute to the brothers and sisters who joined the Force, they have found the peace they sought

How do you know that ? Who says they are at peace? Nobody ever came back and told me that he was at peace after his suicide so i am wondering why you assume this ?

Great point - I was having an argument with a Christian friend of mine and she ended the conversation with 'Jesus loves you Dan !!' Just saying, we don't know what happens when we die. Nobody does.

steamboat28 wrote:

Trisskar wrote: The thing I learned about though through her is....(In some cases).... When a person reaches that state, it is damnably impossible to convince them otherwise. And the more you try....the worst it gets.

This is so far from universally true that it might actually be harmful.

And yet it was true in her case.

Great point - I was having an argument with a Christian friend of mine and she ended the conversation with 'Jesus loves you Dan !!' Just saying, we don't know what happens when we die. Nobody does.

I suspect we've got a fairly good idea.

People love a bit of mystery, but I've seen bupkis to suggest anything happens after we die.

Two of my friends "died", and then were brought back (Stabbing and Car crash, if you're into that kind of gory detail)

Obviously once the appropriate politeness and rehab, I've asked them both - What was it like? - Both said "Nothing"

Not the "Nothing" you get when you're alone and it's quiet, not the "Nothing" of sleep. Actual "nothing"

Now maybe they weren't "properly" dead, or dead for long enough. Is dying like dropping food? Is there a 3 second rule?


You're right, there's no one around to make claim either way (If there was, I guess that would be an argument in favour of there being something after death :lol: ), but when I'm making life and death decisions, I usually have the Pros under "Death" as
"Savings on groceries" rather than
"Possible eternal bliss" or
"Opportunity to knock things off tables"


BUT (and nothing you say before BUT matters )

How do you know that ? Who says they are at peace? Nobody ever came back and told me that he was at peace after his suicide so i am wondering why you assume this ?

Jedi Temple? :huh:

Temple Doctrine wrote: 15. Jedi believe in eternal life through the Force. We do not become obsessed in mourning those who pass. We may grieve at their passing but we are content, knowing that they will forever be a part of the Force and so always a part of us.

I have had personal experience with deep depression and attempted suicide. The trials of life sure make ending it an attractive solution. I think it all comes down to your Will. Do you have the Will to fight on? or the Will to let go of your troubles? or the Will to say 'I'm not done yet'?
We all must face our battles. Win or lose, we must learn from these battles. Accept what has happened, then LET IT GO.
I believe that our spirit can't rest if we die uneasy. We need to find peace of mind and acceptance of ourselves in order to move on after death. Our spirit can't rest if we 'had to end it.' Some believe that we reincarnate if we die with acceptance and peace: We get to do it again, hopefully, better the next time.
My experience is: I only wanted to kill myself because I didn't seek peace of mind, understanding, and acceptance. Now that I am on the Jedi path, suicide isn't needed anymore. I can now accept, learn, and LET IT GO.
With the Force, there is no suicide.
May the force be with you