A new terrorist attack in France :( Pray for France

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7 years 8 months ago #248435 by
It is not ISIS fault. It is not ISIS. It is a psychopath who is using ISIS as a scapegoat or a reason for their crimes.

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7 years 8 months ago #248464 by Adder

Silas Mercury wrote: It is not ISIS fault. It is not ISIS. It is a psychopath who is using ISIS as a scapegoat or a reason for their crimes.


Yea I know what you mean. The international community makes the association so they can better understand and stop it, and the terrorist group makes the association so they can pretend they have greater capacity then they really do. It plays to the terrorist group narrative to call him a member of the IS.

If the IS claim to be a 'state', then to be a member of the IS they should need to be citizens of that state.

From the international communities point of view, it is one of the mechanisms terrorist groups use actively as part of their 'machine', so it gets included. All they need to do is target the same target, claim allegiance and they become a defacto member of the organisation. He apparently was not working alone, and it involved premeditation. The IS even tells foreign supporters just to do it and claim allegiance to be considered part of them, so maybe that is enough for him to actually become a citizen of the IS!!? In which case he indeed would be part of IS. Get's confusing after a while....

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu

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7 years 8 months ago #248494 by
A lot of good is coming from the perpetual circle jerk that is the "Thoughts and prayers" response that the main stream media is so quick to pick up. We can sit around all day and hope till the cows come home that the situation will get better, the we can all pray that it will magically all stop, but that wont do anything will it? The time for crying on tv and having a moment of silence then forgetting about it till the next attack happens has past. Now, now is the time for action. Aye the site may refer to me as a guest, but that does not change the fact that i, like all of you, practice the ways of the jedi. The fact that i have not filled out a application on the internet does not stop me from attempting to live as a jedi to the best of my abilities. Do we not call ourselves keepers of the peace? Do we not wish to protect life and help our brothers and sisters? Sitting around throwing thoughts and prayers at those who need our help does nothing. It will get nothing done as our government and main stream media shows time and time again. Now is the time for action.

Mars Callahan said it quite well.
"You got this lion. He’s the king of the jungle, huge mane out to here. He’s laying under a tree, in the middle of Africa. He’s so big, it’s so hot. He doesn’t want to move. Now the little lions come, they start messing with him. Biting his tail, biting his ears. He doesn’t do anything. The lioness, she starts messing with him. Coming over, making trouble. Still nothing. Now the other animals, they notice this. They start to move in. The jackals; hyenas. They’re barking at him, laughing at him. They nip his toes, and eat the food that’s in his domain. They do this, then they get closer and closer, bolder and bolder. Till one day, that lion gets up and tears the shit out of everybody. Runs like the wind, eats everything in his path. Cause every once in a while, the lion has to show the jackals, who he is."

We are being plundered, our people are being killed, are you willing to be plundered? Yes or no? Are you stupid enough to keep quiet in the process? Yes or no? We must stand up united in one voice to say, we will not be bullied by those of another culture, by those who wish to destroy our way of life, by those who would see us dead for our ideas and the way we live our lives, by those who hold a book above all else and will kill those who disobey it in anyway. We will not allow the destruction of our people in favor of yours.
You make think "If we(Jediism) want peace, if we believe in the sanctity of the human person, then why must we act?" Because there are people who don't want it!

And if you sit here and think, saying we must root out evil, that we must remove isis and any system of system of belief that calls for active killing, is a bad thing and is offensive, than you are a fool. And i will stand by taking action against those who seek to destroy our culture, and helping those who have been hurt by said offenders, even if i am chastised by the jedi for thinking we must protect our fellow man.
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7 years 8 months ago - 7 years 8 months ago #248499 by Adder

Cohort wrote: And i will stand by taking action against those who seek to destroy our culture, and helping those who have been hurt by said offenders, even if i am chastised by the jedi for thinking we must protect our fellow man.


Join the Military or Police might be your best bet I guess? As there will always be some nature of threat, unless you mean the IS in particular... then I guess it a bit harder. A local lad went over to fight with the Kurd's a couple of years ago but he found a landmine the wrong way! Plus its illegal here to go fight in foreign wars unless your in the military on deployment, apparently, so I would not recommend that course of action. It might not be where you are though. But don't judge others capacity too harshly, especially if you don't know what they are doing, have done or might want to do. Discussions are opportunities to learn more and refine ones views. Poor planning leads to poor performance as they say.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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7 years 8 months ago - 7 years 8 months ago #248503 by

Cohort wrote: And if you sit here and think, saying we must root out evil, that we must remove isis and any system of system of belief that calls for active killing, is a bad thing and is offensive, than you are a fool. And i will stand by taking action against those who seek to destroy our culture, and helping those who have been hurt by said offenders, even if i am chastised by the jedi for thinking we must protect our fellow man.


I agree that a Jedi cannot and should not support any system which actively pursues the killing of other people, other cultures, other ideologies.

That obviously includes the active killing of ISIS.

Peace is not achieved by making war, attacking whole regions to root out a few culprits just creates more terrorists. For proof, see the last two decades. We made ISIS via interventionist, warmongering politics.

The notion that we should "just keep killing people until noone is left to disagree" is not the Jedi way. Compassion, understanding, cooperation. Diplomacy before destruction. Education before annihilation. That extends on both sides of this debate. What work have you done to understand why ISIS has so much support? Why people are willing to commit these seemingly senseless acts? Where does the impulse come from?

Keepers of the peace? I don't see it that way. In the real world, Jedi have no universe-given mandate to actively impose their vision any more than ISIS has. Jedi are more like catalysts for peace, the calm and sensible voice which strikes balance between the opposing sides of the argument. It is only by ensuring we never reach for our weapons that we avoid becoming another ISIS.

As a Jedi you will know the benefits of looking deeper, beyond the knee jerk response to the heart of the situation. As a Jedi you will remember that we are all one and the same in the Force, both terrorist and victim. And as a Jedi I have no doubt you realise that we can't expect others to move away from violence and hatred unless we do.

If my time as a Jedi has taught me anything, it's that the change has to start from within.
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7 years 8 months ago - 7 years 8 months ago #248518 by

tzb wrote: Peace is not achieved by making war, attacking whole regions to root out a few culprits just creates more terrorists. For proof, see the last two decades. We made ISIS via interventionist, warmongering politics.


WRONG!
We made ISIS because Obama pulled our troops out to early, didnt allow the military to finish their job and allowed what was left of the enemy to regroup and reform and retake ground we won with blood. Then he gave Iran a billion some odd dollars to fund them further as well as the potential to gain nukes! How stupid is that.
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7 years 8 months ago - 7 years 8 months ago #249030 by Rex
This thread tends to revolve around two big topics: what is terrorism and why does terrorism exist.
I actually wrote a thesis on just war in Abrahamic and Hindu worldviews, and did a lot of research for that, so I'll mostly parrot myself a few years ago. If anyone wants a copy, pm me.

Terrorism is use of violence as a coercive measure to achieve sociopolitical or religious ends. State-sponsored terrorism is a war crime, but otherwise terrorism is by non-state persons who actually aren't given combatant status and thus have no claim to protected combatant rights from conventions like Geneva IV (concept of distinction). State-sponsored terrorism is jus ad bellum i.e. Iraq 2002. There is such a thing as just war, and even though the doves here might think the concept is oxymoronic, it has saved many innocent lives when applied.
Terrorism constitutes a grave breach of just war. All party nations are responsible for bringing terrorists to justice, and in cases of lacking cooperation, multinational interventions have been undertaken to dismantle institutionalised terrorism (think Rwandan and Yugoslavian genocide). Thus, while the US tends to take the role as the world's police, they are simply acting in an intervention capacity as long as they have probable cause of just one terrorist's residence in any area. If the host countries took care of themselves, an international presence wouldn't be required.

Terrorism is simply asymetric warfare from 3rd generation tactics taken to a new level of non-statehood. In war, infiltration and attack against enemy combatants are protected; terrorism simply removes the combatant status of both the perpetrator and/or target. Partisan warfare, guerilla campaign, and terrorism all represent the same concept. World War II saw the birth of terrorism, as states on both sides armed non-uniformed combatants to attack from within (most commonly in France and the Ukraine). The entire Vietnam war was largely a US-based antiterrorism campaign which taught a valuable lesson in control.
Modern Islamic terrorism stems from the US-sponsored Mujahideen in the 1980s Afghanistan. Once the Soviets were withdrawn after a Russian version of Vietnam, the Mujahideen got bored and proliferated the captured Russian and CIA-supplied arms throughout the Middle East. The Taliban were a direct result of the Afghan power vacuum after the Soviet withdrawl, and Osama Bin Laden was a Mujahid financer. Ultimately, terrorist groups are very shakily organised, since when large enough, they tend to attract attention and are quickly pruned back.
The heavy fecundity (and short life expectancy) of Middle Eastern, African, and Asiastic Islamic nations tend to encourage a medieval mindset of "Oh screw it, I'm gonna die at 28, so I might as well take a shot at getting hella [heaven/virgins] and driving out the [heretics/infidels] from [insert area]." This is why warhawks tend to take the agent orange approach and cut the jihadis at the bud, while doves encourage education and other methods to decrease births and increase life expectancy (ultimately going for western assimilation). Homegrown terrorism is just the result of Western ennui.

I've been disappointed by the pacifists in this thread. You can't just throw nirvana fallacies at conflict without at least offering an idea to solve the problem. For all my personal peace, I sure haven't stopped any ISIS attacks.
Please correct me if I made any mistakes.

Knights Secretary's Secretary
Apprentices: Vandrar
TM: Carlos Martinez
"A serious and good philosophical work could be written consisting entirely of jokes" - Wittgenstein
Last edit: 7 years 8 months ago by Rex.
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7 years 8 months ago #249040 by
[/quote]WRONG!
We made ISIS because Obama pulled our troops out to early, didnt allow the military to finish their job and allowed what was left of the enemy to regroup and reform and retake ground we won with blood. Then he gave Iran a billion some odd dollars to fund them further as well as the potential to gain nukes! How stupid is that.[/quote]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzmO6RWy1v8

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7 years 8 months ago #249047 by
Pretty convenient that that video completely skipped over the creation of Israel and the Gulf war isn't it.

Vox is an American news website run by Vox Media, founded by liberal columnist Ezra Klein.

Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry at The Week accused the site as "partisan commentary in question-and-answer disguise" and criticized the site for having a "starting lineup was mostly made up of ideological liberals."

The Federalist's David Harsanyi criticized the site's concept of "explanatory journalism" in an article titled "How Vox Makes Us Stupid", arguing that the website picked and chose what facts to use in order to only reinforce their readers' progressive liberal worldview, and that "explanatory journalism" inherently leaves out opposing viewpoints and different perspectives that should be considered.

The Washington Times's Christopher J. Harpercriticized the site for reporting mistakes, including reporting inaccurate information about the Michael Brown shooting case, reporting on a nonexistant bridge between Israel and Gaza, erroneously stating that the 2014 winter solstice would be the longest night in history, and others. He wrote that for a "much-ballyhooed website aiming to make journalism better and to explain the news" it "makes a lot of mistakes.

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