Mortose: Public Journal

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31 Jan 2014 12:20 #135801 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Mortose: Public Journal

Ve-Lo-Zi wrote:

rugadd wrote: Ve-Lo-Zi : How do you qualify a perspective as invalid?


I could elaborate a lot on this, but aside from my moral and spiritual values (as expressed for example in the commandments of Jesus and in the Jedi Code), I would view anything that leads to a better world in the wider sense (e.g. benefits people materially or spiritually without infringing on the rights of others) as a "valid" perspective.

While I would not dare to claim that ANY perspective is totally "invalid" (perspective always being per definition a subjective and individual thing), I do believe that certain perspectives and worldviews invaldidate themselves by promoting oppression, destruction and death. Thus, such perspectives are to be avoided in my opinion because they do not lead to spiritual growth but only empower the own lower Ego.



Technically, you can color the world as you see it...;)

But your "judgement" or statement, can be, and as you contradict yourself, seems to be, actually more invalid, lol....

No offence...

You call Mortose view invalid, then state in your second paragraph, state: " While I would not dare to claim that ANY perspective is totally "invalid""....

You sort of invalidated your own words...:lol:


Mortose wrote:

Ve-Lo-Zi wrote: Doctrinal matters aside, LaVey was one of the first to really challenge the first amendment of religious freedom to the limits by founding the Church of Satan (which was basically one of the first "above ground" LHP organisations). As such I see him at least as someone how fought for tolerance and freedom of worship. Maybe you want to consider the following quote from LaVey in an interview done in the 1990s: "To those who put me done and claim I am a fraud and not "dark" enough, I simply want to state that the main reason why they can go out and openly proclaim their "dark" ideas and viewpoints today is because I threw open the door in 1966 by going public with the Church [of Satan]".


Spare me the bovine droppings... All that circus chimp LaVey did was make Satanism something palatable to the age... and he became famous and made money on it! Why else do you think the bafoon did it?! Not that this is "wrong", just a fact I am bringing to your attention. Tell me, what has come out of the now public "Left Hand Path" community? What leaps and bounds have been made? So far, all I see are a bunch of indecisive philosophers so obsessed over their self-help version of "darkness", it is a wonder they are not excreting rainbows from their anus and urinating unicorns!

LaVey did me no favor and if he had not opened the "door", someone else would have... and if not? Then I would be in the shadows and that would have served me fine. After all, there was a "dark community" before LaVey and had he not founded his ridiculous "religion", those with enough desire would find those of similar interest in the underground.


Um, our forefathers founded this country (U.S.A.) on religious freedom and tolerance...

While this gets lost quite often, its true...;)

LaVey made a small step...

There were plenty of other pioneers...;)

Peter Cartwright, Joseph Smith, James Springer White, Ellen G. White, L. Ron Hubbard, to name a few....

Mortose could be next, as could John Henry Phelan (not necessarily the originator, but founder of a large Jedi organization) who can tell?

:lol:....

(Not at anyone....)

[Funny rant]

Is your belief strong enough you'd die for it?

Brave the ridicule and mockery of others?

Then you too, might have what it takes....

[/funny rant]

Ah, life... How much fun I'm having...:)

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter
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31 Jan 2014 13:05 #135804 by Ve-Lo-Zi
Replied by Ve-Lo-Zi on topic Mortose: Public Journal
Jestor, the contradiction is only one at first glance. I didn't mean to say that I judge Mortose's perspective as "invalid" - (although I will state clearly and openly that it is against all my spiritual and moral values) - but that I think this kind of perspective INVALIDATES ITSELF.

Think it through: If a certain worldview based on egoism and destruction becomes dominant and everyone follows the Dark Side, what would happen? The whole thing would invalidate itself because it would lead to everyone eventually destroying each other until nothing is left. So, when nothing is left, what can still be valid then?

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31 Jan 2014 13:09 #135805 by Ve-Lo-Zi
Replied by Ve-Lo-Zi on topic Mortose: Public Journal

rugadd wrote: Ve: Do you believe destruction, oppression and death are not valid pursuits?


On the long run yes, because of the reasons I stated in my reply to Jestor. Such paths can only work for a certain time....
As a sidequestion, why would anyone want to pursue such things (at least as goals in themselves)?

Sometimes, it may be necessary to destroy something to build up something new but then the destruction isn't the goal, but that what is to be created anew is. Although, even then, I view such methods with great scepticism (see the example of Nazi Germany in my first post in this thread).

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31 Jan 2014 14:40 #135821 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Mortose: Public Journal

rugadd wrote: Ve-Lo-Zi : How do you qualify a perspective as invalid?


Ve-Lo-Zi wrote: Jestor, the contradiction is only one at first glance. I didn't mean to say that I judge Mortose's perspective as "invalid" - (although I will state clearly and openly that it is against all my spiritual and moral values) - but that I think this kind of perspective INVALIDATES ITSELF.


I went back to look for where you "invalidated" Mortose's perspective...

Although I found where you disagreed, nowhere did I find you saying its "invalid", although I could have missed it...

I think I misread rugadd's comment...

My apologies...:)

Think it through: If a certain worldview based on egoism and destruction becomes dominant and everyone follows the Dark Side, what would happen? The whole thing would invalidate itself because it would lead to everyone eventually destroying each other until nothing is left. So, when nothing is left, what can still be valid then?


IF....

A little word with so much power, lol..

The likelihood of that happening is pretty slim...

Mortose just has yet to.move through the "dark" to realize that it requires balance....

Hopefully, he/she, will....

The unselfishness of humanity abounds, and will triumph...

I agree with Mortose on the Hitler stance, it was not his hatred for anything, but his love for his country that spurred him....

Do I agree with his actions? No, but, I understand both sides of this coin....

From my understanding of Satan, it wasn't his hatred of humanity or God, that drove him away, but the fact that he wouldn't love all men, as he did God... (reaching through my dusty, cobweb filled brain)

Its a balance between loving ourselves, and loving each other....

We are all at different stages...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

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31 Jan 2014 15:09 #135824 by Wescli Wardest
As far as Hitler is concerned, I have read Mein Kampf (and studied that era of time extensively) and believe he expresses distaste (anti-Semitism) early on. I do believe that he had a love for his country but also unresolved anger issues that ended up being focused on those that did not deserve so much hostility. (Or being seen so much as lesser)

Many people believe that it was a hatred for man that drove Lucifer to his demise. I feel it may have been more pride. It is said that he loved God above all others and that he could not serve man the same as he served God. It was his love for his creator and his pride in his station that ultimately caused his downfall. (just my opinion) But I have not studied any of that in years… just what I seem to remember. :P

Monastic Order of Knights
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31 Jan 2014 16:16 - 31 Jan 2014 16:20 #135840 by Mortose
Replied by Mortose on topic Mortose: Public Journal

elizabeth wrote:
Not monstrous, and if you didn't care why talk about it? Why give it a second thought?
Whether you admit it to yourself or not this has touched your life. What you learn from it is up to you but what comes across is not apathy but anger towards the care givers?
You try so hard to maintain this image you seem to have of yourself as hard and dark, this world won't touch you and yet whenever I read your journal I have an image of someone in pain beating there fists against a box of their own making.


I write this type of thing to better understand myself. I give this forum the benefit of being able to see what would normally be held in a private diary... The many questions i ask myself daily... My reflections. I do this because I value the conflict bringing such things into the open provides me.

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Last edit: 31 Jan 2014 16:20 by Mortose.
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31 Jan 2014 16:32 - 31 Jan 2014 16:55 #135841 by Jon
Replied by Jon on topic Mortose: Public Journal
Hitler`s love for his country Jestor or any one else for that matter? I would not say that out loud here in Germany, as it was not his. His country was Austria, and that country he loved so much that he steam rollered everything and everyone in it with his military machine. So much so that they still to this very day bear a virile grudge against Germany.

The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.
Last edit: 31 Jan 2014 16:55 by Jon.

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31 Jan 2014 16:33 - 31 Jan 2014 16:34 #135842 by Mortose
Replied by Mortose on topic Mortose: Public Journal

Ve-Lo-Zi wrote: Jestor, the contradiction is only one at first glance. I didn't mean to say that I judge Mortose's perspective as "invalid" - (although I will state clearly and openly that it is against all my spiritual and moral values) - but that I think this kind of perspective INVALIDATES ITSELF.

Think it through: If a certain worldview based on egoism and destruction becomes dominant and everyone follows the Dark Side, what would happen? The whole thing would invalidate itself because it would lead to everyone eventually destroying each other until nothing is left. So, when nothing is left, what can still be valid then?


Not everyone will follow the dark path, as it is not a road for all. This invalidates your theoretical assumption. If however the improbable event happened and every creature on Earth "turned to the dark side", this planet would be a war zone. Man would fight with man for the position at the top... and there would be chaos.

However, darkness within the individual exists on a scale... There is no equality! The weak would be made to serve the great and if not, they would die. As they toiled in the shadows of their overlords, some would prove strong, rise up and destroy their oppressors... only to become tyrants themselves. IF such darkness did "destroy everything", then... Great! It would still not invalidate this path. As for what would be valid? Other worlds beyond this one? If those were destroyed? Others in other dimensions. If those were obliterated and truly nothing remained? Manifestation would start again... and if that did not occur? My dream would be realized and existence would be over entirely... for all.

The absolute obliteration of all that is without rebirth is ridiculous! So, here ends your needless philosophy... and mine.

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Last edit: 31 Jan 2014 16:34 by Mortose.

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31 Jan 2014 16:48 #135844 by Wescli Wardest
Dark path, light path… just different sides of the same road we call life. And we all walk it.

Each way has a purpose and one would not be whole without the other. I spend time being in peace with most and time in conflict with others. Why, because my harmony is in balance. Many people see the majority of my actions as being light sided; when they would probably better fit the description of neutral. Just discussing and being.

Most people try and take the stance of yes or no, true or false, right or wrong… Alpha or Omega; but, in life, it is all the letters in between that we experience and know. Most likely, anyone that believes (and this is just my opinion) that they can be in agreement with some absolute is just being false to themselves, and then the world.

Monastic Order of Knights
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31 Jan 2014 16:57 - 31 Jan 2014 17:01 #135845 by Mortose
Replied by Mortose on topic Mortose: Public Journal
Hitler's Ghost

All of this talk about Hitler has reminded me...

Several years ago, I had this desire to contact a spirit. "Hitler!", I joked with myself. The joke quickly transformed into a reality, and I sought out the famous dictator. At first, everything he said was in German. Me, not understanding German made this clear to the man via telepathy. Hitler decided then to show me visually, using symbolism, memory and emotion to convey his thoughts.

Now, before I go into what he showed me, I will explain the man's eternity. The despot existed in a continual loop of the worst moments of his life, especially of his failure. As he began to show me images, a man dressed in black came into the room and handed him a notice if some type. There was depressing news on it, as the once dictator bent over the desk in defeat. These moments continued, interrupting his discussion with me.

The first thing he showed me was the pact he made in his youth. A young Hitler stood at his window gazing out into the cold starry night, his hands leaning on the sill. A black star luminous with some type of light source surrounding it drifted down towards him. It spoke to him, telling him of what he was to become, what the conditions of his nation were becoming. Hitler sought the power to make this grand vision of Germany and adjoining nations a reality, so he made a pact with the star.

He was told not to attack Russia, yet as history makes clear he broke that agreement. The vision shifted back to Hitler in what looked like his office. He showed me an exploded atomic bomb, then expressed regret for all the destruction and hatred he caused the world and his Germany. He explained through emotion and imagery that he never wanted what happened... That he became carried away with power and Germany suffered for it.

After the image of the bomb, he said these words in English... "Separate to unify", as if this was his intention in creating so much racism and hate. With that, it was over.

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Last edit: 31 Jan 2014 17:01 by Mortose.
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