Mortose: Public Journal

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04 Feb 2014 16:41 - 04 Feb 2014 16:44 #136377 by Mortose
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Ve-Lo-Zi wrote: You are wrong, this is at first glance a pacifist view, yes, but it is a pacifist willing to fight the Dark Side if it is necessary. But the first goal should be to fight darkness with light, cruelness with kindness, war with peace. Only if all of this fails can other means be justified. I believe this is also strongly emphasised in the Jedi teachings when Obi-Wan says at some point: "Violence (be it in words or deeds) is always the last option". Or as Paulo Coelho puts it once: "A true warrior will always try to avoid the fight, not out of cowardice, but out of compassion". I think that needs more strength and inner self-discipline than just charging into conflict.


"You are wrong". My! Jedi too think In absolutes! However, I am in agreement. Violence on the light side is a last option; light warriors try to reduce the damage they might cause. These are champions of defense, not offense; only striking a physical or psychologically crippling blow when all other options fail.
Last edit: 04 Feb 2014 16:44 by Mortose.

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04 Feb 2014 16:53 - 04 Feb 2014 16:56 #136380 by Ve-Lo-Zi
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benedictveritas wrote: oh pick your fights carefully ...but there is nothing peaceful about war...and obi wan wasnt real


Yes, but I don't understand "pick your fights carefully" in the sense of only fighting when you will win, but in the sense of only fighting when it is absolutely unavoidable and only to the extent necessary.

Let's take an example from WW II to make my point clear: The Allies considered themselves as fighting for the light and Eisenhower even spoke of a "just war". Still, despite this, they applied force in an excessive manner when they bombed the city of Dresden in 1945 which was crowded with refugees, killing ten thousands of civilians just to demoralize the German population. This happened at a time when it was clear that Germany had no possibility of winning the war anymore.

So, even if their war was "just" in the sense that they may have fought for the Light Side, they still used methods of the Dark Side (terror and excessive violence).
Last edit: 04 Feb 2014 16:56 by Ve-Lo-Zi.

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04 Feb 2014 16:56 #136381 by Mortose
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What about the Inquisition? Those behind it considered themselves champions of the light!

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04 Feb 2014 17:03 #136384 by Ve-Lo-Zi
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Mortose wrote: What about the Inquisition? Those behind it considered themselves champions of the light!


This is a very difficult question for me to answer because I am Catholic myself. Let it suffice here to say that the church was very entangled with politics at the time the Inquisition flourished (mainly the 14th - 17th century) and that Pope John Paul II publicly admitted in the year 2000 that the Church "sinned" by using violence to promote the faith.

However, I also believe that there were (and always will be) genuine "black lodges" and "dark covens" which the Church rightfully opposed (which doesn't imply I justify the use of violence against them). And before I am accused of being a conspiracy theorist here, NO, I don't mean the Freemasons or similar organisations :)

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04 Feb 2014 17:06 - 04 Feb 2014 17:06 #136385 by Mortose
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Ve-Lo-Zi wrote: However, I also believe that there were (and always will be) genuine "black lodges" and "dark covens" which the Church rightfully opposed (which doesn't imply I justify the use of violence against them). And before I am accused of being a conspiracy theorist here, NO, I don't mean the Freemasons or similar organisations :)


Explain to me what a "black lodge" is in your understanding, and why you believe actions against one by any light sided group are justified.
Last edit: 04 Feb 2014 17:06 by Mortose.

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04 Feb 2014 17:14 #136389 by Ve-Lo-Zi
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Mortose wrote:

Ve-Lo-Zi wrote: However, I also believe that there were (and always will be) genuine "black lodges" and "dark covens" which the Church rightfully opposed (which doesn't imply I justify the use of violence against them). And before I am accused of being a conspiracy theorist here, NO, I don't mean the Freemasons or similar organisations :)


Explain to me what a "black lodge" is in your understanding, and why you believe actions against one by any light sided group are justified.


I'm not really sure I can completely define it. But basically, a "black lodge" would be a group of people which are purely "evil" in the sense that their only goal is to bring chaos, death and destruction. For example, the "Norwegian Black Metal Mafia" would be a contemporary example. They were a small group of radical Satanists who torched churches and planned on murdering Christian Ministers. They had an inner circle called the "Death Squad" and claimed their "religion" involved worshipping death and destruction.

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04 Feb 2014 17:15 #136390 by benedictveritas
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and the best way to deal with them would be to send them to that which they worship

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04 Feb 2014 17:19 #136392 by Mortose
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Ve-Lo-Zi wrote:
I'm not really sure I can completely define it. But basically, a "black lodge" would be a group of people which are purely "evil" in the sense that their only goal is to bring chaos, death and destruction. For example, the "Norwegian Black Metal Mafia" would be a contemporary example. They were a small group of radical Satanists who torched churches and planned on murdering Christian Ministers. They had an inner circle called the "Death Squad" and claimed their "religion" involved worshipping death and destruction.


Enemies of the church specially then. Interesting.

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04 Feb 2014 17:25 #136393 by Mortose
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benedictveritas wrote: and the best way to deal with them would be to send them to that which they worship


That group might have just been all about the attention of such acts, though I can not disagree with you. Those who bring destruction and death should not be surprised when either or both come knocking at their door.

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04 Feb 2014 17:26 #136394 by benedictveritas
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not just enemies of the church ...the church means nothing to me ...enemies of the innocent in all forms need to be put down like the rabid dogs they are

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