Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight

Moderators: Desolous, Reliah, Edan

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 23 Feb 2010 04:17 #29012

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
Sweet Baby Jesus!
Founder of The Order

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 23 Feb 2010 05:43 #29016

OK Tatsujin - firstly - I NEVER once said wiki was authoritative - never have and never will, im fully aware of its open source operation - as are most if not all our readers (or at least the adult readers) - I said its accurate.

There are hundreds of possible sources for this information, including the main scouting group website.

Im English born n bred - so if it makes you feel cosy inside - lets put it this way - Im giving the english historical version of the founding of the scouting movement - which funnily enough happens to be the nationality of Powell.

Another point - I dont see any 'grey area' in terms of the history - we're talking late 19th/early 20th century here - not several hundred years ago.

Neither did I once say the scouts and military are the same - you dont seriously think im that ignorant do you? This temple has DOZENS of active service personal, from all the forces from many nationalities - and as many if not more ex-servicemen/women. TOTJO also has regular interaction with the military for various reasons - and whilst I personally have not served - every generation of my family up to the current HAS served King/Queen and country - and has so dating back some 800+ years - im well aware of how the military functions thank you.

As a side note - linked to above point about language - I went somewhat out of my way to 'defend' you or at least put it to everyone else that perhaps youd been misunderstood - im starting to think 'why did I bother'

Have you had enough of the masters in this thread because you dont like being challenged over your statements?

To be blunt - a number of your posts have been quite abrasive - generally I put this down to language differences and the limitations of text conversations - I tend to cut everyone slack (when they are new or reasonably new) just in case its 'new comers defensive syndrome' or something - yet in an earlier post, you said

Tatsujin wrote:
If anything would make me want to leave, it's being put in a position to explain myself any time I affirm what the order is doing because someone is used to being assailed by people who don't get it.

yet your doing exactly this to others time n again.

Youve also said your seen as opinionated/snobby etc - have you wondered why this is? Perhaps lines such as this

Tatsujin wrote:
The third thought that crosses my mind is that I'm an intellectual who can post with clarity and defend myself well. This comes off to most people as being overly opinionated and snobby, so I can gather that when combining the three thoughts would result in people not reading what I'm writing and assuming their way through.

will explain this.

Your not the only one to have run many sites, your not the only one with any level of intellect but from the little I have experienced of you thus far is mainly your guilty of everything your pointing at others for. Most of the longer standing members here treat 'attacks' like water off a duck back- everyone has a different perspective of everything, one persons 'fact' maybe another's fantasy - history is written by the victors as they say.

I certainly am not going to disagree with your final line.

So back on topic - I think in terms of ranks etc - those who are 'rank haters' maybe have not quite thought about what the rank means. Just because one does not appreciate why another has a rank or title should not mean that they have no respect to the individual. Of course, respect is a mutual thing, but if your in a place (physically or otherwise) where ranks are used - it is only good manners to use the appropriate titles etc. You would expect a 'guest' in your home to treat you with respect and abide by your rules - so its simple course to do the same - be it in a home, public building, website or other place.

From what ive seen elsewhere - the main cause of problems in this regard is lack of understanding of what the title or rank means - with the knowledge of what they mean and what the function of the title and or individual - one can often avoid looking foolish or worse - ignorant.

Yes, respect is two way traffic - but someone has to 'go first' - so by showing the appropriate respect - youll be off to a good start in a given situation. As said, there will always be the little hitlers - but they are easy to identify, just keep calm and polite but dont fuel their rage or ego - if necessary, walk away - it takes at least two to fight ;)

As a final note - I have one irritation in terms of ranks and titles - its folks who (as an example) INSIST on being called 'Major' or whatever - when the last time they were in active service was in WW2. OK, they earned the rank in the military at the time, but military and civilian life is very different - most civies wont understand the ranks anyway and its especially maddening to see/hear elderly 'Majors' (again an example) get cross with say a 20 year old for not using the title. Whats the point? they will have only legitimatly had the title for a couple or so years anyway and once out of service - is the 'rank' theirs toi use anyway?

Would a serving soldier now, follow an 'order' from a guy who was a major 60years ago? I very much doubt it - so why do such folk think others should treat them differently. If you really want the name used - get your name changed by law (deed poll in the UK)

This really does only serve to feed the ego of the title holder - and at the end of the day - its only a word, a badge - it has no actual value and like money - you cant take it with you.

Everyone is equal in death and within the force ;)

"If you don't like or agree with the way we do things here, you know where the door is"

" What we do in life - echoes an eternity!"

Pastor Emeritus - Apprentice To Br John

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Feb 2010 23:48 #29039

Wow Tatsujin you really carried this a long way since I was last on.

Maybe we should withdraw from this subject or change the subject?

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 25 Feb 2010 00:11 #29040

  • stevef
  • stevef's Avatar
  • Knight
  • ID: 535
been on and off for a while, and I just noticed a clever post saying lets be respectful and call people by rank or title.
Wow, for a simple point this thread got really complicated... scouts and the UK and the military!

here's my rule of thumb and it seems to make sense:
if They are a master Call them Master X. I use the username in shout and the forums. If they are an apprentice call them Apprentice X or I think Padawan is acceptable to most. or Brother or Sister.
Knights Sir Madam or Brother Sister
If you and them are the same rank Brother or Sister is fine.
If you don't know and are too lazy to find out Brother or Sister.
Ya we can use the full title or multiple titles but it's less about who's what than being respectful of all of us. let me say that again, it's about respecting your fellow jedi.

if you look at the films, all the jedi were called by a title even by Palpatine, who hated them and wanted to destroy all jedi. If he can bite the bullet so can we.

but maybe I'm too simple to be in this conversation.


Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 25 Feb 2010 23:15 #29054

  • Jaden
  • Jaden's Avatar
  • Guest
  • ID: 1092
I been reading the whole thread and I would like to bring my small contribution in, saying what I think about ranks.

First of all I never see the rank, I see the person behind it and use the rank to get an idea about the amount of knowledge and work that person had until now. For instance I am an apprentice and it describes exactly what I am: a person that has more to learn in order to be able to teach others. As Kana Seiko Haruki said in one of the posts, a master is a normal human being which never looses the desire to learn and improve oneself for the good of others and make this world a better place.

We could put it this way: you call the one that gave you birth \"mother\". This is a rank. Before she gave birth she was a woman, she didn't knew how it feels and what it means to be a mother unless she had a child. This goes the same with our ranks: when you join in you know few things or maybe nothing about jediism. Later on as you learn your perception about life and other matters change, the ranks are there to remind of who you were and where you reached.

I personally see ranks as a tool to help new members and make the bound between members stronger. For instance when I will be called Master I wouldn't feel any different from what I feel now (it will just make me remember always about my duties and responsibilities I have towards the Temple and it's members)but I certainly know that a new member will come to me and ask for help because he/she would know that I am among those who know about TOTJO.

And yeah it's a matter of respect also. It's your choice if you want to use the ranks or not but I wonder if you would call your boss by his/her name, if you would call your school teacher by name and so on. As long as you see it JUST as a matter of respect you shouldn't feel offended yourself when others tell you to follow this simple rule and use the ranks.

Hope I managed to explain these things well as english is not my native language. Thanks for taking time to read this.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 26 Feb 2010 23:22 #29062

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
Yes you did Jaden very well indeed.
Founder of The Order

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 27 Feb 2010 22:48 #29068

  • Jestor
  • Jestor's Avatar
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 3682
The comparrison to 'mother'... awesome..

VERY well done Jaden....
Rite: PureLand
Master: Master Jasper_Ward
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Elizabeth, Llama Su. Kitsu Tails

Liz Gilbert: In the end, I've come to believe in something I call "The Physics of the Quest." A force in nature governed by laws as real as the laws of gravity. The rule of Quest Physics goes something like this: If you're brave enough to leave behind everything familiar and comforting, which can be anything from your house to bitter, old resentments, and set out on a truth-seeking journey, either externally or internally, and if you are truly willing to regard everything that happens to you on that journey as a clue and if you accept everyone you meet along the way as a teacher and if you are prepared, most of all, to face and forgive some very difficult realities about yourself, then the truth will not be withheld from you. ~Eat, Pray, Love~

Bella Swan: "Childhood is not from birth to a certain age. And at a certain age, the child is grown and puts away childish things. Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." ~Twilight~

Latest Posts Comments Articles
    • Original Jediism material vs. outside material (Last post by steamboat28)
    • Quote: So change. But I don't consider running in place to be progress. To write the same thing again just to have it say "Jedi" at the top isn't real growth, Steam. No one here said it was. At least not in any words I've seen; perhaps your interpretation differs. And that's really the crux of this argument--Jedi interpretation of text is different from text itself. I'm not suggesting we "transliterate" as tzb has done. That's simple restatement and gets us nowhere. I expect us to expand, explore, question, and forge. I expect us to work, not simply regurgitate. Which, ultimately, is all we seem to do with the current system. Any perusal of nearly any Jedi topic will consist mostly of smug tones and "Watts says" or "Campbell wrote" or "According to Laotzi" where personal interpretations would do much more good. How much more is this necessary in our foundational teachings, which currently have nothing to do with Jediism but everything to do with two and a half authors' worth of "think for yourself by quoting me". Quote: Overall, I have this idea of "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" idea about it. That attitude is a fine one to have until we become too reliant on it, and find ourselves too complacent to question it. Innovation drives improvement; nothing benefits itself by remaining the same for the sake of same. Even stillness is moved by a desire to improve upon the noise of the world.
    • Add Chomsky to the Initiate Program (Last post by Jamie Stick)
    • I meant to add my $0.02 earlier and forgot. My thought is that there may be a place for Chomsky, but I don't think it's in the IP. The IP is supposed to familiarize people with what we're about and to prepare them for the possibility of continuing their training on the Jedi path as we do it here. I don't really think Chomsky does that for everyone.
    • Pacifism. (Last post by Adder)
    • Quote: I don't see why it has to come down to one extreme or the other. We fight when we need to, we kill when we have to, and we train to have the capability to do so and the wisdom to know when it is or is not necessary Perhaps pacifism is a difference somewhere in that determination to certain types of action or inaction. I've always imagined the best warriors hated war, because I thought it would be a prerequisite to being wise in its conduct. I keep typing pacificism but I swear I've nothing against the Indian, Atlantics, Arctics and Antarctics among us :silly:
    • From time to time a poem (Last post by Alexandre Orion)
    • Jour 39 Ligoté à l'Image de la Liberté, Avec tant d'autres de ses esclaves, Je tire sur la chaîne, ses maillots Forts et épais, du fer forgés Par le feu et des milliers de Morts Abattus pour bâtir son Image Mise à la place laissée par nos tyrans … Je regarde mes mains grippant Fermement les maillots lourds Et soupir de fatigue, Épuisé du port de ce poids. Là, inscrit sur chaque anneau pondéreux, À peine perceptible Où personne ne les voit, Figure ces mots : « Je suis …  » « Je veux …  » « Je mérite …  » « J'ai besoin de …  » Me levant la tête, Je mire le visage de l'Image de la Liberté, Cette mère marbrée que je ne connais guère ; Elle prit la place au nombril du Monde, Où moi, je suis devenu tyran ! * Fettered to the Image of Liberty, With so many other of her slaves, I pull on the chain, its links Strong and thick, of iron forged By fire and thousands of Dead Butchered to build her Image Put in the place left by our tyrants … I look my hands gripping Firmly the heavy links And sigh from fatigue, Exhausted from carrying this weight. There, inscribed on each ponderous ring, Barely visible Where no one sees them, Figure these words : “I am ...” “I want ...” “I deserve ...” “I need ...” Raising my head, I look into the face of the Image of Liberty, This marbled mother that I hardly know ; She took the place at the World Navel, Where I, myself, have become the tyrant ! Alexandre Orion 8-9 février 2016
    • A path before/alongside jediism? (Last post by Aspen Evenstaad)
    • The closest I have to a religion is some sort of conglomeration between the teachings/scholarship of Carl Jung and the writings of a few philosophers - Gottfried Leibniz (monadology), Rene Descartes (taken with a grain of salt), Nietzsche (some of the basic ideas, though not necessarily the writings themselves). I feel a deep connection and appreciation with nature, which I feel connects me to the "religions" of many groups of "native" peoples around the globe. I have lately been exposed to and studying along the lines of the Taoist tradition - Qi Gong, etc. - but I do not consider this a religious endeavor. Mostly, I feel this is encompassed in Jungian psychology. Jung has all of the essentials there - the hero's journey, the anima/animus, confrontation with the "dark side", the spiritual mentor -- all on a journey to find one's own higher self. This is what resonates for me.
    • Jedi History Interactive Video Lecture (Last post by Opie Macleod)
    • The history of our community is something I find interesting. So I like exploring it and this is something I have hosted a few times now through Google Hangouts On Air. This time we will be exploring the old Jedi Temple website (also known as Temple of the Jedi). Originally created by John Olorin in the late 1990's. Which was a very active and promising Jedi Site that fell to .... Jedi Unity?!? Dun Dun Dunnnn!! How did that happen? We shall explore and seek to find out. If you'd like to join me (and other Jedi) for this live interactive Video Lecture (which will include a chance to explore the long lost Jedi Temple website and a Q&A segment) you can tune in using one of the links below. If you can't make it or discover this post after the lecture date, no worries, it will be on YouTube for viewing later on. Lecture Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2016. Lecture Time: 6:00pm Pacific - 9:00pm Eastern - 0200 UTC. Lecture Place: Google Hangouts On Air Links: (will not be available until after 02-11-16)

There are 162 visitors, 13 guests and 24 members online (5  in chat): Firewolf, Dechlain, Lightstrider, Adder, Proteus, Alexandre Orion, Rosalyn J, Lykeios, Kamizu, Vagabond, Loudzoo, Tellahane, JLSpinner, obiwankenokie, Butterybaker, Ke JinnDakken, Serondrych, Squint, Amandabonn, Kyrin Wyldstar, Reindeer, Snowy Aftermath, Jimbo Slice, ShannonMCD, jpadkins, Cenrus Kuno, Kajak-Da, Belisarius, Achlys, Riyuma, anakinTorres, Rob Bass, FAT, Chuy, Ryder, Catpeeps, homb-ray.

Follow Us