Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight

Moderators: Desolous, tzb

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 23 Feb 2010 04:17 #29012

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
Sweet Baby Jesus!

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 23 Feb 2010 05:43 #29016

OK Tatsujin - firstly - I NEVER once said wiki was authoritative - never have and never will, im fully aware of its open source operation - as are most if not all our readers (or at least the adult readers) - I said its accurate.

There are hundreds of possible sources for this information, including the main scouting group website.

Im English born n bred - so if it makes you feel cosy inside - lets put it this way - Im giving the english historical version of the founding of the scouting movement - which funnily enough happens to be the nationality of Powell.

Another point - I dont see any 'grey area' in terms of the history - we're talking late 19th/early 20th century here - not several hundred years ago.

Neither did I once say the scouts and military are the same - you dont seriously think im that ignorant do you? This temple has DOZENS of active service personal, from all the forces from many nationalities - and as many if not more ex-servicemen/women. TOTJO also has regular interaction with the military for various reasons - and whilst I personally have not served - every generation of my family up to the current HAS served King/Queen and country - and has so dating back some 800+ years - im well aware of how the military functions thank you.

As a side note - linked to above point about language - I went somewhat out of my way to 'defend' you or at least put it to everyone else that perhaps youd been misunderstood - im starting to think 'why did I bother'

Have you had enough of the masters in this thread because you dont like being challenged over your statements?

To be blunt - a number of your posts have been quite abrasive - generally I put this down to language differences and the limitations of text conversations - I tend to cut everyone slack (when they are new or reasonably new) just in case its 'new comers defensive syndrome' or something - yet in an earlier post, you said

Tatsujin wrote:
If anything would make me want to leave, it's being put in a position to explain myself any time I affirm what the order is doing because someone is used to being assailed by people who don't get it.


yet your doing exactly this to others time n again.

Youve also said your seen as opinionated/snobby etc - have you wondered why this is? Perhaps lines such as this

Tatsujin wrote:
The third thought that crosses my mind is that I'm an intellectual who can post with clarity and defend myself well. This comes off to most people as being overly opinionated and snobby, so I can gather that when combining the three thoughts would result in people not reading what I'm writing and assuming their way through.


will explain this.

Your not the only one to have run many sites, your not the only one with any level of intellect but from the little I have experienced of you thus far is mainly your guilty of everything your pointing at others for. Most of the longer standing members here treat 'attacks' like water off a duck back- everyone has a different perspective of everything, one persons 'fact' maybe another's fantasy - history is written by the victors as they say.

I certainly am not going to disagree with your final line.

So back on topic - I think in terms of ranks etc - those who are 'rank haters' maybe have not quite thought about what the rank means. Just because one does not appreciate why another has a rank or title should not mean that they have no respect to the individual. Of course, respect is a mutual thing, but if your in a place (physically or otherwise) where ranks are used - it is only good manners to use the appropriate titles etc. You would expect a 'guest' in your home to treat you with respect and abide by your rules - so its simple course to do the same - be it in a home, public building, website or other place.

From what ive seen elsewhere - the main cause of problems in this regard is lack of understanding of what the title or rank means - with the knowledge of what they mean and what the function of the title and or individual - one can often avoid looking foolish or worse - ignorant.

Yes, respect is two way traffic - but someone has to 'go first' - so by showing the appropriate respect - youll be off to a good start in a given situation. As said, there will always be the little hitlers - but they are easy to identify, just keep calm and polite but dont fuel their rage or ego - if necessary, walk away - it takes at least two to fight ;)

As a final note - I have one irritation in terms of ranks and titles - its folks who (as an example) INSIST on being called 'Major' or whatever - when the last time they were in active service was in WW2. OK, they earned the rank in the military at the time, but military and civilian life is very different - most civies wont understand the ranks anyway and its especially maddening to see/hear elderly 'Majors' (again an example) get cross with say a 20 year old for not using the title. Whats the point? they will have only legitimatly had the title for a couple or so years anyway and once out of service - is the 'rank' theirs toi use anyway?

Would a serving soldier now, follow an 'order' from a guy who was a major 60years ago? I very much doubt it - so why do such folk think others should treat them differently. If you really want the name used - get your name changed by law (deed poll in the UK)

This really does only serve to feed the ego of the title holder - and at the end of the day - its only a word, a badge - it has no actual value and like money - you cant take it with you.

Everyone is equal in death and within the force ;)

MTFBWY - A
"If you don't like or agree with the way we do things here, you know where the door is"

" What we do in life - echoes an eternity!"

Pastor Emeritus - Apprentice To Br John

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Feb 2010 23:48 #29039

Wow Tatsujin you really carried this a long way since I was last on.

Maybe we should withdraw from this subject or change the subject?

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 25 Feb 2010 00:11 #29040

  • stevef
  • stevef's Avatar
been on and off for a while, and I just noticed a clever post saying lets be respectful and call people by rank or title.
Wow, for a simple point this thread got really complicated... scouts and the UK and the military!

here's my rule of thumb and it seems to make sense:
if They are a master Call them Master X. I use the username in shout and the forums. If they are an apprentice call them Apprentice X or I think Padawan is acceptable to most. or Brother or Sister.
Knights Sir Madam or Brother Sister
If you and them are the same rank Brother or Sister is fine.
If you don't know and are too lazy to find out Brother or Sister.
Ya we can use the full title or multiple titles but it's less about who's what than being respectful of all of us. let me say that again, it's about respecting your fellow jedi.

if you look at the films, all the jedi were called by a title even by Palpatine, who hated them and wanted to destroy all jedi. If he can bite the bullet so can we.

but maybe I'm too simple to be in this conversation.

MTFBWY

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 25 Feb 2010 23:15 #29054

  • Jaden
  • Jaden's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guest
  • ID: 1092
I been reading the whole thread and I would like to bring my small contribution in, saying what I think about ranks.

First of all I never see the rank, I see the person behind it and use the rank to get an idea about the amount of knowledge and work that person had until now. For instance I am an apprentice and it describes exactly what I am: a person that has more to learn in order to be able to teach others. As Kana Seiko Haruki said in one of the posts, a master is a normal human being which never looses the desire to learn and improve oneself for the good of others and make this world a better place.

We could put it this way: you call the one that gave you birth \"mother\". This is a rank. Before she gave birth she was a woman, she didn't knew how it feels and what it means to be a mother unless she had a child. This goes the same with our ranks: when you join in you know few things or maybe nothing about jediism. Later on as you learn your perception about life and other matters change, the ranks are there to remind of who you were and where you reached.

I personally see ranks as a tool to help new members and make the bound between members stronger. For instance when I will be called Master I wouldn't feel any different from what I feel now (it will just make me remember always about my duties and responsibilities I have towards the Temple and it's members)but I certainly know that a new member will come to me and ask for help because he/she would know that I am among those who know about TOTJO.

And yeah it's a matter of respect also. It's your choice if you want to use the ranks or not but I wonder if you would call your boss by his/her name, if you would call your school teacher by name and so on. As long as you see it JUST as a matter of respect you shouldn't feel offended yourself when others tell you to follow this simple rule and use the ranks.

Hope I managed to explain these things well as english is not my native language. Thanks for taking time to read this.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 26 Feb 2010 23:22 #29062

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
Yes you did Jaden very well indeed.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 27 Feb 2010 22:48 #29068

  • Jestor
  • Jestor's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 3682
The comparrison to 'mother'... awesome..

VERY well done Jaden....
Rite: PureLand
Master: Master Jasper_Ward
Graduated Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Edan, Knight Brenna, Senior Knight Firewolf
Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Elizabeth, Llama Su, Trisskar

Life is just a party, and parties weren't made to last..." ~1999 by Prince~

"Questions and answers, sometimes there are no answers and sometimes the answer is yet more questions." ~Elizabeth~

"I don't have any answers, only more questions..." ~me~
Latest Posts Comments Articles
    • How do you Train? (Last post by Edan)
    • I train people at my work, and I've had apprentices here. My methods are slightly different for both. When I train the juniors at my work they start off in stages... working from the less complicated things upwards. When they've got the gist of something then I put them onto the next bit... showing them how to do it, then watching them do it, then leaving them to do it by themselves. They ask questions if they get stuck, and I re-explain if I need to. Some juniors get more handholding than others, some barely seem to need me. When I trained apprentices it was a bit different. I tried to tailor the tasks I gave them to what they specifically needed help with. Often I would set tasks that had come out of conversations that we had had, inspired by something they had been having issues with. Other times I would set something that probably seemed a bit of a right angle to their usual line of thinking, to give them an opportunity to explore a different perspective. I didn't get to train an apprentice to knighthood, which I am disappointed by, so I can't tell how I would have gone further.
    • Live Sermon August 31, 2016 9 p.m. GMT (Last post by Jack.Troutman)
    • Quote: UTC (Coordinated Universal Time) and GMT (Greenwich Mean Time) mean the same thing; you may be thinking of British time which is currently an hour ahead, or GMT+1. Since you live in Switzerland, Cyan, you're two hours ahead of UTC: GMT+2, which means this sermon will be at 11 PM your time. Thanks Adi ,that was great!
    • Rants far and wide (Last post by Edan)
    • I get that you have a tiny car, but a tiny car in the middle of two parking spaces is still a car in the middle of two parking spaces. It's still selfish, still thoughtless, and it still means I can't park where I need to. Yes, I did leave you a passive aggressive note telling you this, and no, I am not sorry for it!
    • Is the world getting worse than ever? (Last post by Senan)
    • The mere fact that we are having an instantaneous conversation about this topic while on multiple continents in different time zones on a forum dedicated to creating an environment that fosters personal growth and improvement would lead me to believe that the world is just fine.
    • Give this place some credit (Last post by Tellahane)
    • Just for the sake of discussion, I've always said no jedi is fully infallible, even the ones who have been doing this since the get go. We all can be victim of heated passionate discussions from time to time, especially in chat. That being said, at some point there probably still needs a line drawn. In my opinion(and for the rest of this post that being the case), If you get sucked into a heated discussion for a day, that's understandable, if you get stuck in a heated discussion over the course of a week with several posts in between of people asking you to take things private, to cool down, to check yourself, and you continue to ignore and continue to progress, at what point do you draw the line between oh they just got emotional and oh they are going over the line. That post started to derail on the 26th, and continue through the 29th. Even using a different situation(this one being made up), at what point does an argument which transitions to yelling, which transitions to arm raising and throwing, which transitions to picking up a chair or stick or other object, which transitions to physical harm do we draw the line? Probably the question of the day for the knights and moderators I'm sure. Heated discussions happen, emotions happen, passions happen, but I still don't think that should be an excuse to intentionally act/continue to act over the course of several days when we have trained and should know better to at least self check after the first post or two of someone telling you to take things private or to cool down.(and yes newer members as have been pointed out are still in that training so that should be understood as well). If it was me, if I was blowing up on someone and I took it on for 4 days I would want someone to temporarily ban me(and thats an extreme), at the very least the last time I came close to doing that I had private messages from a knight I talked regularly with who was very politely guiding me and reminding me about training etc. Maybe that happened in that scenario, maybe it didn't, I don't know. However if it came down to it and the temp ban needed to get me to cool down before I continue to make a fool of myself, but that's my opinion, what does everyone else think? As I said in chat later while we were having a discussion there about this very thing, the worst part about that was it was in open discussions forum, where any non-registered person can read it, where people who are considering joining the forums are reading it, and if they see that is how we act in here it's not saying hey give this place some credit its wow do I really want to be here? I really wish that we had a place where those discussions which are publicly available, when they do go off heated like that can be moved to where we can continue discussion as necessary without showing off the worst that we can be.(Of course you can start another thought process tangent of honesty in presenting ourselves but thats not a representation of the majority of us either).
    • Favorite Jedi Code Line (Last post by MartaLina)
    • Passion yet Serenity I could write a thousand words about why but the main reason is that even in the greatest passions there is some form of serenity , its one of the things i keep in mind when i am doing a hundred things and nothing. I always seek the serenity , passion somehow presents itself for me it seems.
    • Brexit and the UK (Last post by Cyan Sarden)
    • I'm not too concerned. I still believe the EU has a bright future ahead of it. Call me an idealist, but despite the constant scrutiny, bickering, bad-mouthing and naysaying, Europe is doing pretty darn well compared to the past.
    • What I Appreciate About You! (Last post by carlos.martinez3)
    • Rugadd I'm glad you are a very real voice here still. We have never one on one-ed yet the things you say have me searching for my own self at times. May your light continue to shine bright for those who see it and for those around you! I Thank you
    • Political Revolution (Last post by Wescli Wardest)
    • If one really wants to “stick it to the man” then the best way I can see for that is to take personal responsibility for one’s life. Become an educated, contributing member of society. Continually work towards personal and financial success. And help those you can by being supportive of their efforts and freely teaching with no strings attached. And do this in the face of all that tis thrown our direction… the misinformation, hostility and prejudice that so many believe they face every day. And most importantly, smile while you do it. :)
    • Question of the Day (Last post by MadHatter)
    • Aside from necessities, what one thing could you not go a day without? Please answer in your own journal. Spoiler: Sorry about the long delay, school and training took priority for a bit bit I have a new source of questions. If anyone else has other sources or suggestions please PM me so I can keep this going 5 days a week with only weekends off.
    • [New book project] Letters to new Jedi (Last post by Edan)
    • Quote: I just finished writing a first draft. I have not written a letter on actual stationary in quite some time and in my adult life I almost never have to do it. Now I'm quite embarrassed by how much my line spacing looks like grade school work. I should have kept up my letter writing. :whistle: Anyway, I'll be writing another draft tomorrow and hopefully sending it to you sometime this week. I always put lined paper behind my stationery so it looks like my spacing is perfect :p One of my colleagues pencils lines on with a ruler and rubs them off afterwards.
    • Apology (Last post by tzb)
    • Thanks for this Silas. Let's find the lesson here. I hope we can all reflect on the importance of clear and courteous discussion, and apply it in future.
    • Have you killed a human ?? (Last post by tzb)
    • This thread has wandered a long way from its original intent, and has caused a fair bit of offence to a number of members. As one poster said, the initial on-topic conversation seems to have largely ended, and the rest is now more about various other topics, some of which are less suitable for our Temple than others. As such, I'm locking the thread. Please feel free to start new ones about any topic you wish to continue discussing, with the provisos we are here to debate ideas and not people, we endeavour to be a respectful and friendly community of people, and we are talking in a religious space. Thanks.

There are 155 visitors, 7 guests and 39 members online (9  in chat): Akkarin, Firewolf, Jestor, Proteus, V-Tog, rugadd, Alexandre Orion, Rosalyn J, PatrickB, Joxman, Llama Su, Kit, Edan, Avalonslight, tzb, Senan, Rick D, Zenchi, carlos.martinez3, Cabur Senaar, Goken, Atticus, Adi, Tellahane, Jack.Troutman, MadHatter, MartaLina, Arthur H., Brick, Kyrin Wyldstar, SashaMirror, Kajak-Da, Jamie Kay, Decker, x57z12, Bradyn2468, Leah Starspectre, Blitz7737, Jutus, Massahiro, cravenflame, Carlos29.

Follow Us