Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight

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Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 10:09 #28224

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An Official-in-waiting who had just rented a house in Hufangqiao Road in the capital was informed, “A fox lives in this house. You will not be disturbed if you offer a sacrifice before you move in.” Being a tightfisted man, he refused, but nothing unusual happened when he moved in. Shortly afterward he married a concubine. Received into his house on the wedding day, she was sitting alone in the room when she heard dozens of whispering voices outside the window commenting on her looks. Bashfully she kept her head lowered. When they went to bed that night after blowing out the candle, the whole room was suddenly filled with giggles. The moment he made a move, it was described in a loud voice. Several nights passed like this. Unable to bear it any longer, he went to a Taoist priest asking him to exorcise the fox. After hearing him out the priest said, “Only when a demon has harmed people can I invoke the heavenly gods to seize it and punish it. If the demon has merely been playing a prank without causing much harm, there is no need for divine intervention. Likewise, the government does not take any action against someone for playing a prank without causing real trouble. How can you bother the gods with such a trivial matter?” At the end of his rope, the official-in-waiting offered a sacrifice and libation to the fox. That very night his room became quiet. He said with a deep sigh, “Now I understand the importance of social etiquette!”

Now I know this is not going to go down well with a number of people here, but I am going to take that risk any way out of the simple fact that we are TEMPLE OF THE JEDI TEMPLE and not called for example PALS INCORPORATED. All of us are here to broadern our horizons; some wish even to learn the Jedi way, be knighted and even hope to guide others as Masters. So just as we take people`s desire to learn seriously so should those who have worked hard to carry the title of Master be addressed as such whether in shout, forum or PM (unless expressed otherwise by the addresse). For a long time this has been in use, was possible and still is the case.
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Last Edit: 24 Jan 2010 10:11 by Jon.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 11:11 #28226

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There is almost nothing that makes a person seems crass and undignified as a lack of simple manners. I finished college in my forties and new some of my teachers as friends and customers. Even though we were on a fist name bases and some were younger than I - in class I always addressed them as professor or with the proper title.

Being from the South I'm steeped in the virtues of Southern Hospitality and for good measure my Mothers family are all from Sibley. There are just things that a genteel person does not do or does do as the case may be.

And what Master Jon is telling you sir, young lad, lady ,little miss is that this is for YOU not for him.

If you want to be respected as a Jedi much less as a decent human being a little magic goes a long way.

Anyway you don't want the thrill of one day perhaps being invited to be on a first name basis - do you?
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Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 11:27 #28227

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Rather interesting and pointed post Master Jon. Like Br. John I too was raised with the \"SouthernL hospitality and from time to time get corrected by my mum and grandparents when I speak of their friends without the honorific Mr. Or Mrs. I understand that but also understand it is becoming a trait that is lost on the younger generations. Which is unfortunate. These people who are older or have earned their rank should be addressed as such, unless otherwise directed by that person.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 13:41 #28229

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Tiamat wrote:
Rather interesting and pointed post Master Jon. Like Br. John I too was raised with the \"SouthernL hospitality and from time to time get corrected by my mum and grandparents when I speak of their friends without the honorific Mr. Or Mrs. I understand that but also understand it is becoming a trait that is lost on the younger generations. Which is unfortunate. These people who are older or have earned their rank should be addressed as such, unless otherwise directed by that person.

i was raised in the backwoods south where most people didn't like mr. or mrs. when in their presence i would address them in the manner they requested. i used mr. or mrs. when dealing with my teachers, in college i call my professors by professor unless they say otherwise but use mr. or mrs. when talking about them to someone else. growing up no one around me ever thought it to be disprespectful to call someone outside the family by first name as it made them part of the family. it was simply a matter of judgement on whether mr. or mrs. was needed in a particular situation...in the end it's a matter of personal preference from the individual that determines how they're addressed. :)
I do not need a cloak of darkness, I am darkness and I am light. I am both because the universe is both.

sometimes you have to enter the darkness to save the light

In truth, everyone wears a mask. when speaking to others, a false persona can charm, seduce, or frighten. -darth sidious, book of sith-

"did you ever see a lion stretch before taking down a gazelle?" -tallahassee, zombieland-

"A path emerges when we walk on it" -j.l.lawson-

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
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Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 14:11 #28232

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The rule only tends to hold true for those who:
  1. ...have something to lose (rank, title, etc.).
  2. ...should know better because it's been explained to them.
  3. ...have an example to follow.
I thank you, Grand Master Jon, my Master, for keeping this open for posting. Though I am neither making a demand nor trying to \"run the show\" or anything like that, these were what I was taught and the seem (to me) be reasonable.

However, the above rules suggest that the responsibility lies in those who are ranked addressing one another by rank, even equals. But there is a danger that I see, as well. It is the attachment to the title and rank, and its associated power and authority. While I will do as you ask, could you respond to this aspect, so that I might understand it better?

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 14:30 #28233

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I have noticed that you have proposed this issue of attachment to titles very often RedHeron, which from my point of view indicates that you have some kind of issue with or experiences involving titles. I am not aware of any personal attachment to titles or fears of loosing it, so unfortunately I am unable to respond to that. What I am really afraid of loosing is my job and not being able to feed my daughter or provide a good education. I can however tell you about the amount of commitment, time and money invested in TOTJO which involves being a Master, the less obvious side which doesn`t seem to be the cause of much thought or scandal. As I already said this is Temple of the Jedi Order, a Jedi spirituality, a Jedi system of philosophy, which (as FAQ) clearly explains includes yes titles but also their DUTIES. Everyone of us is a guest here in a house if you like, this is a priveledge and not a right. Or which house do you walk into and dictate the way things are to be run because you don`t like it? It is all about respect, understanding why we are here, giving as much as we can for the benefit of others and keeping your feet firmly grounded on the floor of reality.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 14:37 #28234

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Apprentice Redheron, if I may a moment. Most of us Masters, Knights relgate the notations of rank with one another for in past issues it has confused new members and has often been the cause of disrespect.

I can tell you from my POV, I request new members to address me by my title until I and they have come to know one another. Not out of basis for rank or title but out of basis for respect. After a time the rank becomes a nonissue with those that have known each other. For instance when I speak with your Master, I call him by his name and the same with Br. John for we have built a repoire of friendship. This is not meant to create attachments to titles or rank, but with an Order this size, a line of \"succession or order\" is necessary.

Many here holding rank do not tend to naturally hold their titles for it is just that a title. It is the actions and words of those members who define them and not their rank.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 14:58 #28235

  • RedHeron
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The issue with attachment to titles is indeed an experience of my own. I have both seen and (regrettably) committed abuses because of such attachment in the past (and luckily, was able to somewhat remedy the damage when I realized it). But I also tend to follow the examples I am given (point #3 on the list I wrote). I have explained my understanding and beliefs; it was not my intent to make a demand, but to understand the demand which has been made, and to avoid my own issues with regard to titles and ranks. It was not intended as an affront, or to disrespect the obvious level of commitment you have.

My question is still unanswered, Master Jon, and so I'm going to try to rephrase it:

How are we to proceed without attachment to a title, if titles of rank are the primary means of address?

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 15:14 #28236

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I have taken no disresect from this post, but find that clarity of the knowledge or answer you seek to be a good thing. If one is to understand one just needs to ask, but bear in mind it may not always be the answer you sought.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 15:59 #28241

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The attachment to titles question is reasonable and there's an answer.

Attachment to titles by masters there may be in some but it's about helping students develop new good habits or reminding them of old ones. A Jedi has a certain dignity that includes being a pleasant person.

It's a small token to ask and even smaller to pay folks who are helping you get something at no cost or demand.

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As, then, you gave yourself to the broken-up yet actual reality of the physical world, in order that it might give itself to you, and your possession of its secret was achieved, first by surrender of selfhood, next by a diligent thrusting out of your attention, last by a union of love; so now by a repetition upon fresh levels of that same process, you are to mount up to higher unions still. Held tight as it seems to you in the finite, committed to the perpetual rhythmic changes, the unceasing flux of "natural" life – compelled to pass on from state to state, to grow, to age, to die - there is yet, as you discovered in the first exercise of recollection, something in you which endures through and therefore transcends this world of change. This inhabitant, this mobile spirit, can spread and merge in the general consciousness, and gather itself again to one intense point of personality. It has too an innate knowledge of – an instinct for - another, greater rhythm, another order of Reality, as yet outside its conscious field; or as we say, a capacity for the Infinite. This capacity, this unfulfilled magnetic attraction, which the cunning mind of the typical person suppresses and disguises as best it can, is the source of all your unrest. More, it is the true origin of all your best loves and enthusiasms, the inspiring cause of your heroisms and achievements; which are but oblique and tentative efforts to still that strange hunger for some final object of devotion, some completing and elucidating vision, some total self-donation, some great and perfect Act within which your little activity can be merged. St. Thomas Aquinas says, that a man is only withheld from this desired vision of the Divine Essence, this discovery of the Pure Act (which indeed is everywhere pressing in on him and supporting him), by the apparent necessity which he is under of turning to bodily images, of breaking up his continuous and living intuition into Conceptual scraps; in other words, because he cannot live the life of sensation without thought. But it is not the person, it is merely their mental machinery which is under this "necessity." This it is which translates, analyses, incorporates in finite images the boundless perceptions of the spirit: passing through its prism the White Light of Reality, and shattering it to a succession of coloured rays. Therefore if you would know the Divine Secret you must unshackle yourself more thoroughly than ever before from the tyranny of the image making power of your mind. As it is not by the methods of the laboratory that we learn to know life, so it is not by the methods of the intellect that we learn to know The Force. "For of all other creatures and their works," says the author of The Cloud of Unknowing, "yea, and of the works of God's self, may a man through grace have full-head of knowing, and well he can think of them: but of God Himself can no man think. And therefore I would leave all that thing that I can think, and choose to my love that thing that I cannot think. For why; He may well be loved, but not thought. By love may He be gotten and holden; but by thought never." "Gotten and holden": homely words, that suggest rather the outstretching of the hand to take something lying at your very gates, than the long outward journey or terrific ascent of the contemplative soul. Reality indeed, the mystics say, is "near and far"; far from our thoughts, but saturating and supporting our lives. Nothing would be nearer, nothing dearer, nothing sweeter, were the doors of our perception truly cleansed. You have then but to focus attention upon your own deep reality, "realise your own soul," in order to find it. "We dwell in Him and He in us": you participate in the Eternal Order now. The vision of the Divine Essence - the participation of its own small activity in the Supernal Act - is for the spark of your soul a perpetual process. On the apex of your personality, spirit ever gazes upon Spirit, melts and merges in it: from and by this encounter its life arises and is sustained. But you have been busy from your childhood with other matters. All the urgent affairs of "life," as you absurdly called it, have monopolised your field of consciousness. Thus all the important events of your real life, physical and spiritual – the mysterious perpetual growth of you, the knitting up of fresh bits of the universe into the unstable body which you confuse with yourself, the hum and whirr of the machine which preserves your contacts with the material world, the more delicate movements which condition your correspondences with, and growth within, the spiritual order - all these have gone on unperceived by you. All the time you have been kept and nourished, like the "Little Thing," by an enfolding and creative love; yet of this you are less conscious than you are of the air that you breathe. Now, as in the first stage of contemplation you learned and established, as a patent and experienced fact, your fraternal relation with all the other children of The Force, entering into the rhythm of their existence, participating in their stress and their joy; will you not at least try to make patent this your filial relation too? This actualisation of your true status, your place in the Eternal World, is waiting for you. It represents the next phase in your gradual appreciation of The Force. The method by which you will attain to it is strictly analogous to that by which you obtained a more vivid awareness of the physical world in which you grow and move. Here too it shall be direct intuitive contact, sensation rather than thought, which shall bring you certitude - "tasting food, not talking about it," as St. Bonaventura says. Yet there is a marked difference between these two stages. In the first, the deliberate inward retreat and gathering together of your faculties which was effected by recollection, was the prelude to a new coming forth, an outflow from the narrow limits of a merely personal life to the better and truer apprehension of the physical world. Now, in the second stage, the disciplined and recollected attention seems to take an opposite course. It is directed towards a plane of existence with which your bodily senses have no attachments: which is not merely misrepresented by your ordinary concepts, but cannot be represented by them at all. It must therefore sink inwards towards its own centre, "away from all that can be thought or felt," as the mystics say, "away from every image, every notion, every thing," towards that strange condition of obscurity which St. John of the Cross calls the "Night of Sense." Do this steadily, checking each vagrant instinct, each insistent thought, however "spiritual" it may seem; pressing ever more deeply inwards towards that ground, that simple and undifferentiated Being from which your diverse faculties emerge. Presently you will find yourself, emptied and freed, in a place stripped bare of all the machinery of thought; and achieve the condition of simplicity which those same specialists call nakedness of spirit or "Wayless Love," and which they declare to be above all human images and ideas - a state of consciousness in which "all the workings of the reason fail." Then you will observe that you have entered into an intense and vivid silence: a silence which exists in itself, through and in spite of the ceaseless noises of your normal world. Within this world of silence you seem as it were to lose yourself, "to ebb and to flow, to wander and be lost in the Imageless Ground," says Ruysbroeck, struggling to describe the sensations of the self in this, its first initiation into the "wayless world, beyond image," where "all is, yet in no wise." Yet in spite of the darkness that enfolds you, the Cloud of Unknowing into which you have plunged, you are sure that it is well to be here. A peculiar certitude which you cannot analyse, a strange satisfaction and peace, is distilled into you. You begin to understand what the Psalmist meant, when he said, "Be still, and know." You are lost in a wilderness, a solitude, a dim strange state of which you can say nothing, since it offers no material to your image-making mind. But this wilderness, from one point of view so bare and desolate, from another is yet strangely homely. In it, all your sorrowful questionings are answered without utterance; it is The Force, and you are within it and part of it, and know that it is good. It calls forth the utmost adoration of which you are capable; and, mysteriously, gives love for love. You have ascended now, say the mystics, into the Freedom of the Will of God; are become part of a higher, slower duration, which carries you as it were upon its bosom and - though never perhaps before has your soul been so truly active - seems to you a stillness, a rest. The doctrine of Plotinus concerning a higher life of unity, a lower life of multiplicity, possible to every human spirit, will now appear to you not a fantastic theory, but a plain statement of fact, which you have verified in your own experience. You perceive that these are the two complementary ways of apprehending and uniting with Reality - the one as a dynamic process, the other as an eternal whole. Thus understood, they do not conflict. You know that the flow, the broken-up world of change and multiplicity, is still going on; and that you, as a creature of the timeworld, are moving and growing with it. But, thanks to the development of the higher side of your consciousness, you are now lifted to a new poise; a direct participation in that simple, transcendent life "broken, yet not divided," which gives to this timeworld all its meaning and validity. And you know, without derogation from the realness of that life of flux within which you first made good your attachments to the universe, that you are also a true constituent of the greater whole; that since you are human, you are also spirit, and are living Eternal Life now, in the midst of time. The effect of this form of contemplation, in the degree in which the typical person may learn to practise it, is like the sudden change of atmosphere, the shifting of values, which we experience when we pass from the busy streets into a quiet temple; where a lamp burns, and a silence reigns, the same yesterday, today, and for ever. Thence is poured forth a stillness which strikes through the tumult without. Eluding the flicker of the arc-lamps, thence through an upper window we may glimpse a perpetual star. The walls of the temple, limiting the range of our attention, shutting out the torrent of life, with its insistent demands and appeals, make possible our apprehension of this deep eternal peace. The character of our consciousness, intermediate between Eternity and Time, and ever ready to swing between them, makes such a device, such a concrete aid to concentration, essential to us. But the peace, the presence, is everywhere - for us, not for it, is the altar and the sanctuary required - and your deliberate, humble practice of contemplation will teach you at last to find it; outside the sheltering walls of recollection as well as within. You will realise then what Julian meant, when she declared the ultimate property of all that was made to be that "God keepeth it": will feel the violent consciousness of an enfolding Presence, utterly transcending the fluid changeful nature-life, and incomprehensible to the intelligence which that physical-life has developed and trained. And as you knew the secret of that physical-life best by surrendering yourself to it, by entering its currents, and refusing to analyse or arrange: so here, by a deliberate giving of yourself to the silence, the rich "nothingness," the "Cloud," you will draw nearest to the Reality it conceals from the eye of sense. "Lovers put out the candle and draw the curtains," says Patmore, "when they wish to see the God and the Goddess: and in the higher communion, the night of thought is the light of perception." Such an experience of Eternity, the attainment of that intuitive awareness, that meek and simple self-mergence, which the mystics call sometimes, according to its degree and special circumstances, the Quiet, the Desert of God, the Divine Dark, represents the utmost that human consciousness can do of itself towards the achievement of union with The Force. To some it brings joy and peace, to others fear: to all a paradoxical sense of the lowliness and greatness of the soul, which now at last can measure itself by the august standards of the Infinite. Though the trained and diligent will of the contemplative can, if control of the attention be really established, recapture this state of awareness, retreat into the Quiet again and again, yet it is of necessity a fleeting experience; for mankind is immersed in duration, subject to it. Its demands upon our attention can only cease with the cessation of physical life - perhaps not then. Perpetual absorption in the Transcendent is a human impossibility, and the effort to achieve it is both unsocial and silly. But this experience, this "ascent to the Nought," changes for ever the proportions of the life that once has known it; gives to it depth and height, and prepares the way for those further experiences, that great transfiguration of existence which comes when the personal activity of the finite will gives place to the great and compelling action of another Power.
    • Show me yours and ill show u mine ? (Last post by JamesSand)
    • I own few books, and they're all language books to help me communicate with my partner's family, or technical manuals because I can't be expected to remember everything :dry: I do have several library memberships though :P Quote: Plus I really want to add some books to that library of mine but I feel guilty that I have not fully read through all of or even most of that set that I listed. Much wisdom has been gained by having spines on a shelf :whistle: Tsst. My advice would be to move books on if you're not really planning to re-read them (and if they're fairly common paperbacks, you'll be able to find a copy when you're in the mood to re-read anyway) An impressive array of books on display is as vain as anything else - plus it's just more stuff to box and up and move :P
    • Leaders Eat Last (Leadership in Jediism) (Last post by Loudzoo)
    • Great videos - thank you for sharing Kit and Cayce :) There is much to take on board and I think the parallels between the selflessness of a good leader and the selflessness of the Jedi Way are quite clear. This notion is a current running right through our doctrine - especially the creed: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console; To be understood as to understand; To be loved as to love; For it is in giving that we receive; It is in pardoning that we are pardoned; This could be as much a formula for good leadership, as it is the creed of the Jedi. The only issue I have is the means of the explanation - the proposed (common) idea that human interactions, moods, emotions and responses are caused by 5 (or 25) different chemicals in the brain. I won't derail this thread with all that. Might be worth discussing in another thread though . . .
    • Interesting volunteering orientated questions (ope... (Last post by Parnerium)
    • 1) What makes someone vulnerable? Someone who is vulnerable is at risk for negative events or outcomes. For example, a family who is consistently unable to pay their bills every month is at risk for eviction, making them vulnerable. This state of poverty also means that the children in the family are at risk for low school performance and potentially dropping out, so the children are vulnerable to those things. Similarly, someone who is emotionally vulnerable is at risk to be hurt or manipulated by others. The things that create vulnerability are specific to the vulnerability itself. 2) What is the opposite of vulnerability? Not being at risk for a negative event or outcome. 3) What makes someone the opposite of vulnerable? Whatever actions or states put a person at less risk for the event or outcome in question. A steady source of sufficient income makes a person less vulnerable to eviction. A healthy amount of self-esteem makes a person less vulnerable to an abusive partner. 4) How do we help/support people / What's our role? To either a) help eliminate the source of the vulnerability or b) help to prevent or lessen the effect of the negative event or outcome. Helping a person secure gainful employment eliminates that source of vulnerability. Providing tutoring to a child living in poverty helps to prevent low grades without addressing the poverty itself. Thanks for this exercise! I enjoyed it.

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