Topic-icon Good and Bad Exist?

06 Jan 2012 08:48 #47248 by ichange

Good and evil exist in nature.
They exist as one.
Thinking separates.

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06 Jan 2012 09:16 - 06 Jan 2012 09:18 #47252 by Phortis Nespin

ichange wrote:

Good and evil exist in nature.
They exist as one.
Thinking separates.

Interesting concept because I believe:

Good and Evil do not exist in nature...
Neither Exist,
Thinking Creates Them!

Let me add - Humans thinking creates them!


Jedi Knight
Deacon of the Temple of the Jedi Order

Master: Mark Anjuu
Former Apprentice / Knight: Jedi Knight Arcade, Jedi Knight J-Roz
Current Apprentices: JLSpinner, and cmwatts
Read what I wrote not with your emotion and interpretation, but with mine!
Phortis Nespin [/url]
"Right and wrong, good and evil, light and dark most of the time, they are illusions that prevent us from perceiving the greater reality. The Jedi have learned to distance themselves from these illusions, to seek the truth beneath the words"
Luke Skywalker
“Selflessness is the only antidote to evil. It provides the light that destroys the dark.”
Corran Horn
Last Edit: 06 Jan 2012 09:18 by Phortis Nespin.

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06 Jan 2012 10:26 - 06 Jan 2012 10:29 #47261 by Adder

Phortis Nespin wrote:

Let me add - Humans thinking creates them!

Do you exclude other animals because you think they cannot comprehend the suffering of others or do you think they are incapable of evil?

I wonder because I dont think its just humans... I extend a capacity for evil to all animals. I'm not sure about insects yet. My cat (and dogs I've known) can be what I consider evil. I know it's instinct is to hunt to eat, but it routinely tries to practise hunting for fun. Training is good to an extent, but it doesnt really care between the pain and suffering of its victim and so for me that selfishness is comparible to evil. Many animals cause pain and suffering for their own amusement because its a challenge and I think instinctually predators sense the need to kill prey at every opportunity to avoid periods when no prey is available. The key is I think they are smart enough to control themselves and decide not too.


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Last Edit: 06 Jan 2012 10:29 by Adder.

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06 Jan 2012 11:00 #47264 by Wescli Wardest

I know that animals have feelings; and, I am certain all intelligent life perceives at least some array of emotion. But I do not feel that all animals perceive good and evil.

These are concepts of morality are based on a dualistic structure. Free will has been accredited with the creation of concepts associated with positive and negative influences. Social acceptance governs the terms that regulate the combining of actions into the moral structure of what is good and what is evil. And what is good in one culture is sometimes not in another.

All life has free will. All life has intelligence. But a complete understanding of each creatures social structure is still foreign to us. So, I believe it is a bit presumptuous for us to associate human characteristics to things we do not fully comprehend.

Yes, there are events which to us seem to cause emotional responses in the behavior of animals; both positive and negative. And I believe the animals understand the difference between joy and sadness, love and hate. But do they see certain events, behaviors and actions as good or evil... probably not. And not because they are not capable of such a level of experience but because they are most likely not experiencing life with the same social structures as us.

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06 Jan 2012 11:04 #47265 by Phortis Nespin

I have pondered the question of whether animals are good or evil and have come to the conclusion that they are not. Animals are capable of so many "emotions" that are similar to that of humans. Dolphins are a prime example of extending emotion towards humans who have had emergencies while in the ocean. And although other animals, especially dogs and cats, have what seem to be human type emotions, I believe they are more instinctual than learned.

I believe what seems like emotion is just a response to a set of circumstances that trigger a instinctual response to display "happy", "sad", "anger", or "fear". I do not believe that nature can be evil or good because they are what they are. It is the human intervention that causes the basic animal to change its response to its surroundings or environment. Besides, if we believe that the Force is not good or evil, and it is our human nature to put labels to things, than???

Believe me, I am on a shaky ledge on this issue so don't beat me up too bad on it. But if I understand what I have been reading, I side with animals are just doing what they do.


Jedi Knight
Deacon of the Temple of the Jedi Order

Master: Mark Anjuu
Former Apprentice / Knight: Jedi Knight Arcade, Jedi Knight J-Roz
Current Apprentices: JLSpinner, and cmwatts
Read what I wrote not with your emotion and interpretation, but with mine!
Phortis Nespin [/url]
"Right and wrong, good and evil, light and dark most of the time, they are illusions that prevent us from perceiving the greater reality. The Jedi have learned to distance themselves from these illusions, to seek the truth beneath the words"
Luke Skywalker
“Selflessness is the only antidote to evil. It provides the light that destroys the dark.”
Corran Horn

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06 Jan 2012 11:16 #47267 by Adder

Yeah I wouldnt be so presumptious to call any particular animal 'evil' as that sort of judgement would have to be an exageration, but I do have the personal opinion many (possibly all) animals have the capacity for evil behaviours - certainly not all types of evil behaviours, but things like my example above of unnecessarily causing pain and suffering to another creature. I guess you could say I think animals have a light or dark path to choose from just like us!


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06 Jan 2012 11:32 #47271 by Wescli Wardest

I think that all the points discussed are valid. And I agree that animals do things that we consider to be good or evil. And I know that an animal senses when it has done what others perceive as bad. I have seen this every time my dog has an accident in the floor and I give her the “evil eye” :P

I was merely saying that I don't think animals perceive their own actions as good or bad, or the actions of other animals as good or bad; because, I view those as human inventions.

But hey, I could be completely wrong! I am just drawing from what I have experienced. And I would love to set down and discus philosophy with an animal or insect or plant. And I'm not being sarcastic. I would love to know just what does go on in their minds. And maybe someday we will be able to!

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06 Jan 2012 11:41 #47272 by Adder

Wescli Wardest wrote:

I was merely saying that I don't think animals perceive their own actions as good or bad, or the actions of other animals as good or bad; because, I view those as human inventions.

Ahh ok, interesting. I guess I view concepts of evil as objective (if thats the right word) and linked to spirituality through physical welfare, wheras good and bad are more subjective, for me evil is at another level and any living creature would (might) have the ability to have a connection to it (the Force) by virtue of being sentient. I do feel though that animals have a harder time reaching a level of understanding of the Force because they are seemingly so much more driven by instinct then humans.


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06 Jan 2012 12:08 #47275 by Phortis Nespin

Why is it that every time I think of good and evil, it draws me back to the Dungeons and Dragons game? Good, Evil, Neutral Good, Neutral evil, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Evil, etc.

Then another though occurred, good vs bad is different from GOOD vs EVIL.

Some children are bad and some are good, but an evil child gets exorcized.:P


Jedi Knight
Deacon of the Temple of the Jedi Order

Master: Mark Anjuu
Former Apprentice / Knight: Jedi Knight Arcade, Jedi Knight J-Roz
Current Apprentices: JLSpinner, and cmwatts
Read what I wrote not with your emotion and interpretation, but with mine!
Phortis Nespin [/url]
"Right and wrong, good and evil, light and dark most of the time, they are illusions that prevent us from perceiving the greater reality. The Jedi have learned to distance themselves from these illusions, to seek the truth beneath the words"
Luke Skywalker
“Selflessness is the only antidote to evil. It provides the light that destroys the dark.”
Corran Horn

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06 Jan 2012 19:37 #47291 by Planet of Chaos

Lmao!! That's clever!

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