Identity: Jedi

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13 Feb 2018 18:54 #315530 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Kyrin Wyldstar replied the topic: Identity: Jedi

thomaswfaulkner wrote: "I was already that which I sought to be."


If you have realized that you already are that which you sought to be, then what do you continue to strive for, and why?

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.

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13 Feb 2018 19:25 #315531 by Manu
Manu replied the topic: Identity: Jedi
As you begin to identify what pushes your buttons, what pulls on you with full force, what moves you and why... then all else will fall into place.

Identities are props.

"Enlightenment is a destructive process.” - Adyashanti

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13 Feb 2018 20:09 #315533 by thomaswfaulkner
thomaswfaulkner replied the topic: Identity: Jedi

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

thomaswfaulkner wrote: "I was already that which I sought to be."


If you have realized that you already are that which you sought to be, then what do you continue to strive for, and why?


I don't really strive for much of anything, really. I realize that there are things that can add on to my happiness and such, but all of which are ancillary. I can recognize that I have the potential to be happy and free with the tools that are presented in front of me. Goals and such are good to have for direction, but they should be fluid and flexible. Back then, my goal was to become a Jedi. The more I held onto that idea and that notion that "me" and "the idea of being a Jedi" were separate entities, the more suffering or what I describe as that endless grasping at the spaces between occurred. I guess its more along the lines that what I wanted to learn was more on an unlearning sort of situation. That distance that I created added more to my hurting than it build me up as a Jedi.

But yeah, goals are good, but for me they are more associated with opportunities rather than necessities. Definitely work towards them with all of your essence if they add to your happiness, but remember that space that it creates and be able to return back home. :)

Right View ~ Right Intention ~ Right Speech ~ Right Action ~ Right Livelihood ~ Right Effort ~ Right Mindfulness ~ Right Concentration



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May all beings be happy and free and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life contribute
in some way to the happiness and freedom for all.
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13 Feb 2018 21:25 - 13 Feb 2018 22:02 #315538 by Adder
Adder replied the topic: Identity: Jedi
I was only thinking this morning about what attributes of fictional Jedi (and therefore that which non-Jedi might automatically understand the label to mean) which were counter-productive in understanding how my Jedi path actually is... in terms of being understood as 'my' identity of 'me' aligning with 'their' identity of Jedi, compared with mine. :S

It still morning lol, so that thought has not run its course ye... but last week I'd made a quip somewhere, that myth is how the painful and unhappy lessons from a societies past are kept, carried through time, and the concept of a culture (in contrast) are the happy self defining lessons ie identity. Clinging to only the later might be doing oneself a disservice!

Which, if true, throws up a conundrum (being something not usual and superficially contradictory) as this path has a lot of association with myth. Is that meant to mean this type of path focuses on struggle, or embracing ones shadow as integral etc?... possibly, probably.

But I don't want to too heavily associate those things with ones past either, and so instead tend to be at a place where I think they inform a 'view' to function in the now, and refining that to a truer representation of 'self'.

So I guess I'd have to say, Jedi does not define me, but I define Jedi. Again, a bit nebulus, but nothing ever pretends to be expressed fully in one short sentence :D

And so then what enables us use the label as a group identity, and therefore have traction in communication of self identity, is that the fiction serves to give us a shared foundation of 'insert key elements here'. Generally speaking this would be the doctrinal guidance in my opinion, not as rules so much but as reminders of those things whatever they might be for the individual.

Such that if a person didn't agree with anything at all in the doctrine, then calling themselves a Jedi would probably mean something different to what it would for those that did.... as simple as it sounds. But of course we all don't agree with all of it or in the same way..but the key point being, to use it to define ourselves is probably doing things backwards. Much like 'correlation does not imply causation', presence of doctrine does not imply dogma. Same with the fiction, it doesn't define Jedi either.

In short & IMO, take the bits which work for you, don't lean on the label too much if it feels uncomfortable, perhaps take the approach of 'exploring the historical foundations and future implications of beliefs represented by the Jedi as a real life path'.... in which case people understand the context of your application to it (if that is what it is).

'The future is already here – it's just not evenly distributed.' ~ William Gibson
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
Joined: Aug 2011..... TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Former Apprentices: PCoronaf, Ratcliffe
Apprentices: Hypatia
Last Edit: 13 Feb 2018 22:02 by Adder.
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14 Feb 2018 07:57 #315563 by x57z12
x57z12 replied the topic: Identity: Jedi
Kobos:
Before I started on the path, I just was. I felt little to nothing, numb but content, except I wasn’t as I felt there should be more than that. When I embarked on the journey, I was movement, change, though mostly to myself and I was okay with that as I believe one needs to be themselves before they can help others become.
When I took the break, first out of necessity since I was incapable of attending, then because I had wandered off and got caught up in the world, I choose to ‘just be’ once more and take heart to the quote Tolkien had given Bilbo: “It is dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door. You step onto the road, and if you don’t keep your feet, there’s no knowing where you might be swept off to.” I did not keep my feet and did so consciously, allowing myself to be taken wherever the road led me, and I greatly enjoyed that journey, still do truth be told.
Now I don’t walk anymore, it’s not necessary anyway as the world doesn’t stop just because I did. Looking around I still see wonder and splendor, but I also see glaring absence. I am an ‘Informatiker’ (most closely represented by the term information scientist in the English language) and thus function is something I see as inherently valuable, still, function seems lacking compared to life. I see function all around me, people giving their all for their functions (be that profession or calling) and living them to the fullest, in a state of pure being if you will. And come night, when the function ceases, they are empty, devoid of that which gave them purpose.
I do not mean to probe or undermine or even question when I ask: What are you when your concern passes, when there is no-one and no thing to be concerned about or for? What are you when the night comes, the function ceases and action halts, when all there is, is you?
Please believe me when I say, without irony or sarcasm, that I hope you have an answer.

Proteus:
Can I see any value to the identity of being jedi? This I can answer: No, I do not. A broad-spectrum identity without any coherency gives me none of the stability to either build nor forge myself on.
Could I resolve something useful for myself in this identity. This I can not answer. I thank you for the question, I will have to think on that.
I don’t know if I could walk in this identity lightly, but I know it is the only way I could don it as I wince at the notion of letting it be my all.

thomaswfaulkner:
An interesting view and I feel it strikes close to what I am searching for so maybe a question that is more direct, if you would:
What about the things you wish to be but decidedly and measurably are not? Be that a good cook, a good artist, a good [singular attribute]. Do you shed the desire to be that?
Your answer to Wyldstar seems to imply just that and I agree, on all things philosophical, mythical, emotional and personality wise this seems like a good answer. But what about the tangible? That, which is not measured by words or disposition but by skill or absence of the same?

Adder:
This, to me, sounds more like a process rather than a definition. Not that a definition was asked but if I read you correctly (and please tell me if I didn’t) you feel identity to be a label of undefined qualities and hence prefer to add to your path what fits it rather than bend your path to fit more completely within the label?
As for the mythical versus the cultural: It’s been to long and I no longer know if it was Watts or Campbell but they said the distinction between two ‘opposing’ points were moot. Light or Dark for example. If you look at them without connotation they are contrast. A distant acquaintance once joined a group I was part of and constantly felt out of place. He was a people pleaser, someone without any kind of edges or definition to him. After plenty of encouragement he started to surface his own believes and agenda, to stick to it rather than offer it up and let it wash away at the first sign of disagreement. Turns out, people like other people a hell of a lot more when they are tangible. Yes, his views came into opposition with others but they appreciated him for it because at last, he was … himself rather than an intangible shape. Struggle, shadow … they are not what makes us but they are by what we are measured, they are by what we can be seen and become tangible – at least that’s my interpretation.
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14 Feb 2018 09:48 #315566 by JLSpinner
JLSpinner replied the topic: Identity: Jedi
Good questions. In the mundane moments, the ones overlooked, when there isn’t anything going on(e.g. brushing your teeth, putting socks on, making your bed, etc.) is when I find we have the potential to be our truest selves. In these moments you have a lack of external stimuli and if you are in control of your thoughts, you can have dampened internal stimuli. Then you are left with just the experience. Am I a Jedi in this moment?
Being a Jedi, to me, is the relationship between my experience, my thoughts, and my actions. It’s how I choose to flow through the moment, unburdened, and decide how to act. Selfless, kind, fresh. For me the label doesn't define how I'm supposed to be or who I'm supposed to be. It describes an environment within myself that allows me to make choices without being perverted by the warping effects of time or ego. It's the condition to feel the moment free of unnecessary thought or rampant emotional bias.
Now back to the question. There are moments when I can’t do this. When there are factors that over power my ability to find the balance of experience, thought, and choice. But those mundane moments are not among them. They are in fact when I have the opportunity to retouch that balance without interference. Kind of like a meditation period. In these moments I am true and centered. I AM the experience of now.


Teaching Master: Phortis Nespin
Apprentice: Kobos
Apprentice: Nakis
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14 Feb 2018 14:21 #315574 by Kobos
Kobos replied the topic: Identity: Jedi
x57z12 excellent question. The problem is the concern doesn't end for me. That may seem like me saying something that I don't mean but allow me to elaborate.

In my given career and the reason I chose it. Previously, I did not choose my profession it chose me, I just worked hard and did what I needed to to survive (at least in the perspective of society). Now, I am a human, I find ways to distract myself, like everyone else. However, when I don't fall prey to those distractions, I have to work on me on my mind and my state of mind or my concerns and emotion would crush me. It has recently, as noted by my wishy-washy attendance here as of late, and in that time I grow quiet and listen but don't speak devise what is really real and what is an angle of perception due to my own personal reaction. However, I have to do this, function only ceases when we let it. On the worst days of my career I watch kids slowly kill themselves, on the best I see some of those same kids rise from the edge of the cliff. When I get home and have time to finally sit, I am thinking of a new way to approach those whom are still hanging from the edge because my first go round didn't work. A lot of the time this means diving into my own past and seeing things from a new angle, sometimes that's very painful. Sometimes I am sitting in my own mind trying to figure out how I am going to wake up the next day and keep smiling. Jeez sorry this sounds pretty self righteous but the reality is I guess I just want to treat people with respect in no matter what I am doing. Even when bumping heads, or arguing, or even if I have an emotional dislike of them. I fail, a lot. I worry about things and destroy myself over it a lot but I also try to rebuild. After this whole self righteous rant lol I will say I have my problems, I have my laziness, I have my anger, sadness, loneliness and distractions but in the end I guess I'm really trying to watch where I step on this path, I'm not overly concerned with where it goes any more. That never got me anywhere. But man I find it horrible and really beat myself up when I step on someone, purposefully or not. Mater of fact there are times when we must step on others in this system of society but damn if it doesn't destroy me inside every time(one of the reasons I couldn't stand the corporate world after building a career there).

I hope this is some what an answer of what you were looking for or it is just babbling but both have their value in this context :)

Peace, Love, Respect
Kobos

Training Master: JLSpinner Training Brother: Nakis
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14 Feb 2018 15:48 - 14 Feb 2018 15:49 #315581 by x57z12
x57z12 replied the topic: Identity: Jedi
It is not, Kobos, for it is nowhere near of what I am looking for. Those harsh words said, do not doubt that your answer was far from meaningless to me.

You shared a lot of yourself, maybe even some of your burden and that needs no cause nor justification. I read your answer and while (to me) it is not
inherently jedi, it is so very much human - in the best of ways. I admire your path but have no illusion on whether it would be a path I could walk too and
you have my sincerest respect for traveling it.

It is no answer, for you decribe what (to me) sounds like a frame, something that guides you, gives you strength and stability. It does not give you purpose,
nor drive, nor calling. Clearly you don't need it to either, there seems to be abundant drive in you already and quite admireable drive too. In that regard, would
you call jedi your identity or human? I would wager I know the answer by the words you used in your first reply.

I will not speak words of console nor encouragment, not because I don't want to but because there is little I can say that would have meaning beyond the
signaling.

Regardless I wish you all the best and sincerly thank you for your answer.
Last Edit: 14 Feb 2018 15:49 by x57z12. Reason: Added an important comma
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14 Feb 2018 15:59 #315582 by Kobos
Kobos replied the topic: Identity: Jedi
Thank you, you humble me. You know I am going to say, I'm Human as my identity. Jedi is a title for sure, maybe a recognition of trying to be of service, possibly even egotistical, for sure my spiritual perspective. The reality of the frame work I laid out is that I walked a real rough road earlier in life and found my way out. I'd love to see some people avoid that and maybe teach them some cool stuff along the way :). That's where I see my purpose, again Jedi maybe maybe not, I wont decide that that's for others to decide. I will study the force as I see it and live to the code as I can because it's got a damn fine message :)

Training Master: JLSpinner Training Brother: Nakis
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14 Feb 2018 22:03 - 14 Feb 2018 22:04 #315627 by Halcyon
Halcyon replied the topic: Identity: Jedi
When I first started this path, as in calling myself Jedi, it was in the late 90s. I was a teen then and I so desperately wanted the power of the Jedi. I wanted to be in a community that sought to do good in this world. For the most part I was just roleplaying for myself. Then, as I got older I took it a little more seriously and it evolved into the Jedi can exist and we need to make it happen. I bounced from community to community looking for people with the determination to actually make the Jedi a living breathing force on this planet. Then I walked away thinking I knew best and what would really make the Jedi a reality, so to speak.

I came to learn a hard lesson.

The 16 Teachings
4. Jedi are wary of attachments, both material and personal. The obsession over possessions and people creates the fear of losing those possessions and relationships which can cause ourselves to be trapped in a state of depression and loss.


Own things, but be weary that those things do not own you. I owned the term Jedi for myself, but it had come to the point where being a Jedi, the title, was beginning to own me. I believe in The Force. I believe in the Doctrine of this Temple. I am a Jedi.

Similarly, I trained at the Shaolin School of Kung Fu. I mastered in Drunken Fist and Tai Chi Chuan. I am a wushu fighter.

I took musical theory for 16 years and was in orchestra for 15, and eventually played in a Philharmonic for 8 years. I am a musician.

I took programing courses for iOS and Android. I am a programmer.

All of these terms are pointless and serve no purpose. They hold no value. They give us no direction to move further in life. They are merely things. It is the experience that holds the value. It is our very living through this life that gives us the purpose.

Why do I call myself Jedi? Why do I hold the term Jedi when I don't need to? Because I'm following my bliss, and I want to.

May The Force be with you, x57z12, always.

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet The Force.

I am One with The Force, and The Force is with me.
Last Edit: 14 Feb 2018 22:04 by Halcyon.
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