Ok, so how SHOULD we deal with hate and intolerance?

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02 Dec 2017 20:25 #307417 by Siptah
Siptah replied the topic: Ok, so how SHOULD we deal with hate and intolerance?
WOW! Someone is very angry. This can be a very provocative subject but would we not be more able to deal with it without letting our emotions, which we are quite able to control if we so wish, to lead us? It is horrible that there are people who hate and who gather in groups and organizations for the purpose of hate, though I do not personally believe that is the whole purpose. We in the United States of America have something called the Constitution which guarantees everyone the right of free speech and belief in their ways. If we were to take away that right from one group or other just because we do not like their words or belief we would cease to be a free nation. There are many things that I do not like in this world but I do not stress myself and boil up a hatred for it. You would do well to calm yourself, there have always been "Not Sees" and "Commies" and other groups black, brown and white saying the same things and there always will. To call for a ban against their speech and beliefs is a slippery slope that will come back and bite you. This temple for instance would not be possible without our constitutional rights. The best way to combat such "Hatred" is to be the superior man or woman and show the way of righteousness to those around you or as the bible would say to be the salt of the earth or the light unto the world. You cannot change the minds of others through hatred and hatred you are speaking.

Let me relate a real life example of defeating hate within my own heart if I may. Recently I lived for twenty years in a small city that was predominately of one ethnic group. Life was peaceful, you could go outside and walk the streets, go to the park at any time day or night. Then one day a change in circumstances occurred that made it necessary to move to another city not far away but different. This city is what you would call very ethnically diverse and no I do not reside in an economically depressed area. Within two days my wife was threatened at gun point outside a convenience store just for the color of her hide. I marked this in my mind and made a note to be alert. Successively in less than a year I have come under various attacks, one in a parking lot that became physical, because of my skin color if I understood the atrocious English of the attacker, again two individuals attempted to rob me one night while I was taking my garbage to the dumpster, once again an individual in the grocery store that I noticed at checkout cursing under his breath notices me and through once again horrible mastery of the English language I learned it was because I was a certain color. These are just a small drop of the instances offering up actual violence upon my person and my wife, all perpetrated by people of an ethnicity other than my own. Now, what do I do? Do I choose to hate or do I choose to be a realist, noting that yes this one group presents a more immediate danger to my safety but that that does not make any others less dangerous and hateful for other reasons? If I were of a week mind and constitution I would be moved to hate, I do not.

To hate is to give in to the base animal instincts and makes you no better than those you wish to oppose. Yes there are things that should not be tolerated but speech and beliefs are not one. If that were the case we would all be in jail.

That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
Alhazred
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03 Dec 2017 02:17 #307431 by Lykeios
Lykeios replied the topic: Ok, so how SHOULD we deal with hate and intolerance?
Damn straight I'm angry. I've been angry (at least under the surface) since November 8th, 2016.

Maybe this makes me a bad person, but, yes, I hate Nazis/neo-Nazis. I hate racist people. I hate sexist people. I hate homophobic people. I hate those sorts of vitriolic scum.

Before I go on the "warpath" again...I'm going to step away.

“Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.” - Theodore Roosevelt

I know a few little things. Maybe someday I’ll know a few big things.

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03 Dec 2017 02:49 #307432 by Sven One
Sven One replied the topic: Ok, so how SHOULD we deal with hate and intolerance?
You cannot change everyone. A relative of mine grew up being racist toward every race except his own. But, the thing that perplexed me the most was he had friends of opposite race than his own.

"Your so prejudice and yet you have friends of other races or color that your not prejudice toward why can't you be like that to others?"

I never did get an answer back but, there are some people who are like that. I don't like racism, sexism, homophobic, ect either but, like it's been said time in and time again you cannot help that in some people. They're racist regardless what you say. He/She is gonna have their say and it's their right. I am told constantly by old friends that I need to go speak to a councilor about Jed ism because they think it's absurd that I left the Christian church for the Church of The Force. Could, they be right? Sure. But, it's my given right to believe what I want in this world and live by what I want period. Am I saying to just let them be racist and promote their racist behaviors and viewpoints? No a thousand times no.

What do I do as a Jedi in a situation like that? Easy, I don't give them much room within my universe to say or do much. Just, because they're around and they're luminous beings doesn't mean I have to put up with what violates me mentally or spiritually. I give them just enough room and nothing more.

Obi Wan in the bar:

"You wanna by some death stix?" Drug dealer
"You don't wanna sell me death stix..." Obi Wan
"I don't wanna sell you death stix..." Drug dealer
"Your gonna go home and rethink how I live my life." Obi Wan
"I am gonna go home and rethink how I live my life." Drug Dealer

Point being. You cannot always stop hate and intolerance but, there is always ways
around it. I hope I am making sense here....and no not jedi mind tricks...lol
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03 Dec 2017 04:50 #307435 by Adder
Adder replied the topic: Ok, so how SHOULD we deal with hate and intolerance?
I certainly don't need hate to remind me about my values... and I happen to find hate is counter-productive. As not all emotions are counter-productive, but not all are productive either, IMO.

As a state of mind, I feel that;

a. if I have no capacity to achieve change from an emotion, then not having any outlet leads it to inevitably create mental friction, in me!! Which manifests as anxiety, which can keep building to anger, and cloud judgement more and more as it develops. Or,

b. if change can be created by my involvement in the circumstance, then there is no need for emotion - unless I need or want it for motivation. And I simply don't need to use my emotions for motivation to things which fall within the category of hate - as they stand quite distinct as outside my morals on their own merits, as targets for appropriate action etc.

'The future is already here – it's just not evenly distributed.' ~ William Gibson
Training Master: Mark Anjuu

Med ~ Vlo ~ Jou ~ Deg ~ Sem ~ Mod
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07 Dec 2017 14:07 #307754 by ZealotX
ZealotX replied the topic: Ok, so how SHOULD we deal with hate and intolerance?

Damn straight I'm angry. I've been angry (at least under the surface) since November 8th, 2016.

Maybe this makes me a bad person, but, yes, I hate Nazis/neo-Nazis. I hate racist people. I hate sexist people. I hate homophobic people. I hate those sorts of vitriolic scum.

Before I go on the "warpath" again...I'm going to step away.


I understand these feelings quite well. At one point in my spiritual journey I was what people called "Hebrew Israelite". Now if you google that you'll probably end up thinking its some kind of hate group. Why? Because the loudest members had made themselves infamous for their hate and intolerance. The culture of this group was based on the idea that they were the true Israelites based on the biblical curses of Deuteronomy. In short, we seemed to fit the description more than anyone else. I didn't get into because of racial anything. I got into it because as I was trying to follow OT biblical laws. I loved God and wanted to be obedient and I didn't believe Christianity was conforming to the word of God, but rather its own dictates. And I had more than enough evidence to support that.

The more I attended this congregation the more I consumed its culture which... wasn't about hating whites but was, in a way, a reaction to white supremacy and racism. The identity of the members was totally dependent on the events of slavery because it matched the curses. So as they reinforced their own identity, race mattered. I wasn't in it for a very long time but it was enough to get exposed to other congregations as well as other "hebrew israelites" on the internet, some of whom I tangled with over things I disagreed with them on. And it amazed me how much hatred some of them had. Some of them were incredible people who didn't hate anyone. But others seemed to hate everyone, including themselves. They judged everyone. I was cussed out and called names just for disagreeing. And said I was just an "Israelite" to distance myself from the larger movement that we all had some level of connection to. And I cannot overstate it enough, some groups were much more radical.

But they believed they were justified because of the bible and because of all the things that white people had done to black people. I could have 20 black friends and not have any discussions about race at all because that's not what's on their mind. But I could have 10 black friends who are "closer to the struggle" and almost every conversation will involve race. And when you are a part of that many discussions you learn about racism and slavery and white supremacy like no one else. And you know that it's not over. You hear about every black man dragged to death behind a truck, every black person hung. What Dylan Roof did doesn't shock you because the reports you hear paint a picture of a secret war against black people. That war isn't simply physical, but it also uses tax payer dollars, government resources, police departments, judges, prisons. We talk about how bad sexual misconduct is today. Slave masters raped and molested their slaves all the time because they thought they had a right to because they owned them. And even after slavery, do you think rich people stopped doing all the immoral things they did before? Of course not. They just paid people to help them do it or help them get away with it. The corruption of the system and the society, after a while, makes ALL whites look guilty. And I know good whites have a hard time understanding that but to most black people, you're either doing it yourself or you're letting it happen. When black people have suffered so much it is too difficult for every black person to care how each individual white person voted in an election. What they see is the result of a democratic, majority rule, process. What's the point? The point is that its very easy to feel that YOUR HATE is justified.

And how do you apply that hate and who do you apply it to?

Most members of the KKK are not monsters. It would be easy for me to lump them all together but that would ignore the varying degrees of their morality. Many people who join the KKK are led to believe that black and brown people are ruining their society, threatening their culture and way of life, committing all kinds of crimes against their people, while at the same time smoking up their hard earned taxes with their food stamps and welfare checks. They feel so hurt and so threatened that it ceases to matter that I have never received a welfare check, that I make more money than most of them because of my education and profession, and have never gotten in trouble for anything beyond speeding tickets and driving with an expired license. They don't want to see that what they're afraid of is more related to poverty than skin color. Why? Because poverty affects them to and because it's mostly the their own white wealthy class that is transferring more and more money from the poor to the rich while not even paying their legal fair share. Who is the bigger criminal? The man who sticks up a gas station for $50? Or the man who cheats people out of $500,000,000? We blame each other for everything while most of what we hate has been perpetrated by the wealthy elite class. Now does that mean we should hate them? Of course not! Not every wealthy person is guilty, just like not every white person is guilty, just like not every black person is guilty. But when we hate we throw poo at each other in a circle so that someone else will most likely, based on the same justification, throw poo at us.

It is OUR problem. The minute we all stop blaming each other we'll obtain the power to actually influence change. Yes, that means voting the right way and understanding what that means. It means stop caring only about yourself and your community and your team and your color and your party. We must seek balance. We can't give everything to the poor, but we need to make sure we're not in the business of creating poor people. We need a pathway to wealth that doesn't allow millions to starve and be homeless. And if something's in the way of us all doing the right thing in a balanced way (like money in politics) then we have to work together to get rid of it. If white people worked together to end racism on their own part there would be no black supremacist groups or counter protestors and no counter-counter protests. If whites culturally said, racism isn't cool anymore it would change things. If men stopped laughing at jokes aimed at women, guess what? It would change things. We all look innocent on one front but we've all been guilty on some other front. As Jedi I feel like we should be building up a public voice and joining our voice with others on these issues that affect our world. Because we don't live in a galaxy far far away. We live on a planet where the most ugly aspects of human nature still exist. And there's plenty of work to be done.
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10 Dec 2017 03:06 #307978 by Sven One
Sven One replied the topic: Ok, so how SHOULD we deal with hate and intolerance?
Like Zealot has said it always starts with one disagreement. Alan, shows the illustration of the masked God walking down the street. On, front side he is blue to the on coming people seeing him. For those that are going away from him his face on the backside is Red. Now, each person saw something different and believes something different. One, person goes and is telling everyone he saw the "Blue" god/goddess and how great he/she was. Now, you also got the Zealot person who also saw the the god/goddess but, that person saw the god as "Red" and he is telling everyone a different story from the guy who saw the "Blue" god.

Before you know it the two people who saw the same account with the exception they saw a different color and their stories are different meet and are co-mingling with one another in the same crowds...even, some might have followers of their own at some point. Before you know it the people are confused, "What god is really real? the Red or blue both of them cannot be right?" So the people run to the two who saw the god and ask them. "He/she was red" the one said, "He/she was blue" the other person said. Before you know it they're both arguing with each other on what they saw and witnessed. Gathering their dedicated followers on their side and they're fighting and arguing their own faiths and passions. Once, the dust cleared there is a victor and a loser or neither but, each one thinks they're right. Each goes away believing they're right even if they're wrong and they lost. They eventually become fierce enemies and neither one of them really knows why except the leaders who founded the "Red" god church and the one who founded the "Blue" god church....who died over 2000 years ago...but, they hate each other and their polar opposite faiths.

People for as old as "Time" have fought this issue and whether who is right and wrong. Now, the Religion is one of the biggest hate and intolerance issues in our world today and that is why I used the example. I think alot of hate and intolerance stems from the fact we want to be right and sometimes we are and other times we are not. As I have said once and I'll say again we cannot completely get rid of Hate and Intolerance we cannot. Is that to say why bother? Of course not! Obviously, we cannot force anyone to believe our view points but, we certainly can be peaceable about it and understanding and for pete's sake maybe you should ask them why they believe what they believe before you assume you know and dismiss their viewpoints and hogwash compared to your own? You don't have to agree with their beliefs but, it certainly doesn't hurt to know why they believe what they do even if it makes no sense to you.

I recently, had a conversation with two Mormon ladies passing out flyers outside my store. I've seen them a hundred times and even talk to them a little but, I struck up a conversation with them one day outta the blue and they gave me a broth of information and a website on the Mormon church it was good conversation. I still don't believe in what they do but, we exchanged beliefs and there was no rift, no anger it was just fine and yes I know it cannot always be like that and it won't but, it doesn't hurt to try and understand.

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10 Dec 2017 03:13 #307980 by steamboat28
steamboat28 replied the topic: Ok, so how SHOULD we deal with hate and intolerance?
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11 Dec 2017 22:39 #308111 by Lykeios
Lykeios replied the topic: Ok, so how SHOULD we deal with hate and intolerance?
Thank you Steam. That's EXACTLY how I see it.

“Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.” - Theodore Roosevelt

I know a few little things. Maybe someday I’ll know a few big things.
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11 Dec 2017 22:47 #308112 by Lykeios
Lykeios replied the topic: Ok, so how SHOULD we deal with hate and intolerance?
I guess I'm finding out that a certain degree of hate has a place in my mind. So does anger. However, it's how I use those "emotions" that matters.

Thanks for the responses, everyone.

“Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.” - Theodore Roosevelt

I know a few little things. Maybe someday I’ll know a few big things.

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11 Dec 2017 23:01 #308115 by steamboat28
steamboat28 replied the topic: Ok, so how SHOULD we deal with hate and intolerance?

Lykeios wrote: However, it's how I use those "emotions" that matters.


Emotions are like fire; handled improperly, they can be destructive beyond belief. Handled properly, they are great tools.
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