Feeling the Force

16 Aug 2017 20:38 - 16 Aug 2017 20:39 #297777 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Kyrin Wyldstar replied the topic: Feeling the Force

Brick wrote:
What's so bad about faith?

How is it possible to believe anything without some degree of faith? Even if one were to rely solely on facts. One has to have faith that those facts are actually true. 10 years ago it was a fact diesel was better for the environment, now not so much. Things that were once believed to be 100% undisputable fact are disproved all the the time.

Sure, facts are usually deemed more reliable, and are certainly more justifiable, but they still require faith. ;)


Well yes but your getting into the area of hard Solipsim now. Of course nothing can ever be absolutely proven. In order to come to any consensus at all we need to make some basic assumptions. The first of which is that reality itself exists and the second is that we can learn something about it. It we can agree on those presuppositions then we can come to other objective beliefs based on consensus through reproducible and independently verifiable evidence. We use this method to arrive at a place as close to truth as possible.

Faith on the other hand uses none of these mechanisms. It is a wholly subjective experience and requires no proof. Because of this, faith can be used to arrive at either a place of truth or a place of falsehood. We can believe anything based on faith with no checks and balance and thus have no way to discern whether a position of pure faith is a truthful position or not. Because of this it becomes an unreliable path to rational thought.
Last Edit: 16 Aug 2017 20:39 by Kyrin Wyldstar.
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16 Aug 2017 21:01 #297784 by ReallyRiver
ReallyRiver replied the topic: Feeling the Force

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:
Well yes but your getting into the area of hard Solipsim now. Of course nothing can ever be absolutely proven. In order to come to any consensus at all we need to make some basic assumptions. The first of which is that reality itself exists and the second is that we can learn something about it. It we can agree on those presuppositions then we can come to other objective beliefs based on consensus through reproducible and independently verifiable evidence. We use this method to arrive at a place as close to truth as possible.

Faith on the other hand uses none of these mechanisms. It is a wholly subjective experience and requires no proof. Because of this, faith can be used to arrive at either a place of truth or a place of falsehood. We can believe anything based on faith with no checks and balance and thus have no way to discern whether a position of pure faith is a truthful position or not. Because of this it becomes an unreliable path to rational thought.


I like to believe my Faith is based on the idea that reality is a thing, and that we can learn about it. I just think that our personal perceptions of that reality are highly colored by our experiences, et cetera.

To me, there is evidence to support my faith within my understanding of reality. But it's easily refutable evidence. Hence, "faith," I guess.

To answer part of the original question, though: to me the Force feels like a ball of light/energy in my chest that radiates through it my body, and I recognize that light in all living things, and it recognizes me. Wow, there's not really a way to describe this that doesn't sound awfully odd...
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16 Aug 2017 21:32 #297787 by Lykeios
Lykeios replied the topic: Feeling the Force

ReallyRiver wrote: To answer part of the original question, though: to me the Force feels like a ball of light/energy in my chest that radiates through it my body, and I recognize that light in all living things, and it recognizes me. Wow, there's not really a way to describe this that doesn't sound awfully odd...


Interesting. Nah, not all that odd! I've heard people describe things like that before.

I feel the Force as a sort of...tingling, prickling feeling. Almost like static electricity but different. Sometimes it also feels a bit more like what you're describing. But most of the time I feel it in the air around me or just under my skin.
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16 Aug 2017 23:18 #297796 by GizmoRazaar
GizmoRazaar replied the topic: Feeling the Force
I'd like to think that the most occurring instances when I connect the most with the force is when I 1) am taken aback or just decide to admire something, like a beautiful scenic view, and 2) I'm in deep meditation and focus on the force around me.
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16 Aug 2017 23:25 #297799 by JLSpinner
JLSpinner replied the topic: Feeling the Force
The Force to me is existence. The universe. Everything. I have moments of feeling or insight that I can't explain. I give to the universe. I have at times felt an energy that I can't explain. I give it to the universe.
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17 Aug 2017 00:18 #297811 by Rick D
Rick D replied the topic: Feeling the Force
I wrote a sermon entitled: "Is the Force real?" , it will be released on Saturday, August 19th. I just have a couple of tweeks per Atticus's request
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17 Aug 2017 05:39 #297899 by Atticus
Atticus replied the topic: Feeling the Force

Rick D wrote: I wrote a sermon entitled: "Is the Force real?" , it will be released on Saturday, August 19th. I just have a couple of tweeks per Atticus's request


Brother, your message is fantastic, and i can't wait to hear it when it goes live. I am always available to workshop a sermon prior to publication if that will help the author be more comfortable with the finished piece. We don't require that step at all.
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17 Aug 2017 21:49 #298104 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Kyrin Wyldstar replied the topic: Feeling the Force

Atticus wrote: I can't dismiss another's subjective experience of our interaction, because it's their experience.


I think this is the crux of what I’m trying to get at by asking the question that I did. I’m not dismissing anyone’s experience. In fact I have those experiences as well, I think we all do. What I do question (don’t want to say dismiss) is the interpretation of that experience - i.e. what is the cause of the experience. That’s why I asked for definitions of what “The Force” is.

Just in these few pages The Force has been described as
• Something that can be felt flowing through us and can be sensed around us
• Something that can be tasted and prickles the senses
• Something that can be worked with
• Something that is transcendent
• Something that is all things at all times
• Something you can convince yourself exists so that you may feel better
• An impersonal, non-sentient energy field that connects everything in the universe together
• Something that can move things, that we can put our will into to affect the entire world
• Something that feels like a ball of light/energy in the chest that radiates through the body and can be recognized in all living things
• Existence, The universe, Everything, an energy that can’t be explained

Obviously these subjective events occur within each of us where we experience a feeling of something greater than ourselves or a profound connection to everything. We have all had similar experiences. But why do people have these experiences they can’t explain and then make these leaps of faith in which they conceive of causes in which there is no independently verifiable evidence? These explanations primarily center on the idea that this cause is a discrete yet obscure energy field that exists somewhere outside the natural workings of the universe and thus is undetectable by natural means.

But how did one come to this conclusion if there is no way to detect it or investigate it outside of the claims of personal experience? Instead why can’t we just say “I don’t know the cause”? The cause could be external to us or it could be a wholly internal one. The point is we just don’t know and since we don’t have cogent evidence to prove that it is caused by an external force we can only assume the default position of disbelief in its existence.

This is not to say this external force can’t exist. It may very well could, but we are also not convinced that is does exist and until proven otherwise we must default to the simplest explanation according to Occam’s razor. That explanation is that the experience, which is a real subjective experience, occurs and is caused as a natural verifiable function of something internal to us.

The only verifiable connection we share is the shared ability for this common internal experience. This is my experience of “The Force”. A profound emotional feeling of being a part of something greater than the sum of its parts through the experience of my existence in this universe. What that something is, I don’t know, I just know it exists, even if only in my mind – but that’s enough.
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18 Aug 2017 04:45 #298235 by Lykeios
Lykeios replied the topic: Feeling the Force
Yes, and that was the entire point of this thread. To find out how other people experience/feel the Force...

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