True Jedis aren't Masters

14 Aug 2017 14:50 #297304 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Kyrin Wyldstar replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
Another way to look at this is through what Neitzsche calls a master vs a slave morality. He argued that there were two fundamental types of morality: 'Master morality' and 'Slave morality'. Slave morality values things like kindness, humility, and empathy, while master morality values pride, strength, and honor. According to master morality there is nothing wrong with more aggressive traits as long as we use it as a guide to what we desire. Whereas slave morality makes higher virtues of passive traits such as submission obedience and forgiveness. Nietzsche equated slave morality to a giant machine for bitter denial vs the master morality mentality of living dangerously and boldly.

It seems to me that we can also see this same dynamic in Jedi vs Sith mentalities or “servant vs master” as described here. I believe the key actually lies in the balance between these two falsely contrasted opposites. In fact they are not dual opposites in which we must choose one or the other, but two sides of the same coin. They can’t be separated and one half lived and the other half not lived. Instead they need to both be embraced and integrated with one another in our lives. Nietzsche called this a revaluation of morals. It is the rejection of either one of these concepts as a pure state. It is an acceptance of our every instinct and the pursuit of our every “lust” as a natural part or who we are. Every characteristic of our makeup is valid and worthy of pursuit not sinful or evil or something to be denied. In effect, not only should we strive to be both masters and servants, the paradigm is actually unavoidable within ourselves no matter how much we claim denial of one side. No light without the dark, no dark without the light.
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14 Aug 2017 15:26 #297308 by Adhara
Adhara replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
What I have learned from my co-worker is that a master isn't a master because he calls himself that. A master is the one who will help, guide and challenge you to learn.
Often they masters are hidden knowingly or not. They only show themselves (knowingly or not) to those who want to learn: "I won't speak until you aren't ready to listen". This is what I keep in mind when I look for someone to teach.
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14 Aug 2017 15:32 #297310 by ReallyRiver
ReallyRiver replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
I don't think there's anything wrong with accepting the title you've earned, so long as you remember that the title exists only within the context in which it was earned (eg, a Jedi Knight at TOtJO is only a knight at TOtJO, not in another Jedi group or Buckingham palace).

Actually, I think it's quite wise and authentic to accept accolades like rank; to say, without boast, "Yes, I did this work. I learned that thing. And at this Temple, we call that Knight." Humility is good. False humility just gets in the way.
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14 Aug 2017 17:54 #297332 by Kobos
Kobos replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
Just dropping an opinion here, A rank signifies that I did x,y,z. Being a Master means that I did all these things know how to and came to the realization that I do not know diddly squat about it. I am glad that I have an apprenticeship with a good dude who has shown me I have much to learn from him and that in time I will also teach but teach with the expectation to learn more. If you believe a master is the final step watch some Kung Fu Movies......Heck, even Buddha himself admitted he would rather listen to his students talk because he had more to learn he just saw a path that might help others......this is what we should be striving for as students of the Force, wether Jedi, Sith, Member, Guest, random guy on the street. I am happy that I am sitting at my desk in my empty class room, because it puts this whole conversation in perspective. I might be the authority figure, but I'm here to learn about them and what makes them tick, what can make them the students in suspensions become not my regulars and that means that I have to learn.

Sincerely,
Kobos
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16 Aug 2017 01:09 #297595 by Xiam
Xiam replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters

Sulabri wrote: I think we have a false equivalency here. Mastery is often associated with incremented ability/skill (*such as a Master Craftsman) where often times when it comes to faith or indeed in any teaching element that it should be considered a level of understanding/involvement within the principle teachings. While I lived in Japan my Akido master was not a Master because he attained a rank, but because he taught many students and became known as a Master of Students.

I like the martial art equivalency as the Jedi were always designed around it in concept before it became a real faith and I think we do a disservice to forget that is part of the attraction that brought all of this about. When attaining a 'black belt' in Akido and many other martial arts you are showing that you are no longer a typical student. Levels of achievement beyond the Black Belt exist but in the old martial arts usually your rank beyond that of Black Belt is more based upon years of study rather than Mastery(Craftsman). So to equate we would say that the Knight within TotJO would have achieved the 'bar'(black belt) to where their knowledge and understanding is respected within the community when tied with service. It is a little convoluted but in layman terms Black Belt/Knighthood means that you are no longer a learner of the basics and are generally given the automatic understanding by your community that you know how to handle yourself.

I think that's the best way of putting it.

The best I could come up with was that "Master" is a title placed upon an individual by others. A person never stops learning, they can only teach in addition to their studies and training.
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16 Aug 2017 03:17 #297614 by Sven One
Sven One replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
I would prefer it to be called "Teacher" or "Instructor." As Adhara said a good "Master" is someone that leads his pupils, apprentices, ect. he doesn't dictate, control or show total authority over anyone or anything. I am a teaching Master atm and I am instructing my apprentice in the ways I was taught and what I have learned to help him and to better him as a Jedi and in hope it helps him grow as a person and as a Jedi. However, I also am looking to learn from him as well. I do not think any Jedi ever becomes a "Master" until, he has completed his journey back to the Living Force.
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16 Aug 2017 03:28 #297615 by Sven One
Sven One replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
Another thing to add is those who do obtain "rank" of "Master" In my defense as a teaching Master and receiving Knighthood it's because I worked hard for it and based on my fellow Jedi and my peers earned what "rank" or "title" I am given. It's not that I feel I am any better than anyone here or I deserve to be where I am more than anyone else but, those who are "Masters" "Teachers" "Clergy" and so on are in these positions because they have earned it and have worked hard.
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17 Aug 2017 09:00 #297930 by Lykeios
Lykeios replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
One can be a master of something without accepting the title.

That's really all I have to say about this subject.
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17 Aug 2017 12:31 #297953 by steamboat28
steamboat28 replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
A Master is someone who has mastered something. Words mean things.
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17 Aug 2017 12:33 - 17 Aug 2017 12:36 #297955 by Aqua
Aqua replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
The Japanese word 'Sensei' is often translated as 'Master'. The correct translation is 'person born before another' or 'person who came before you' or 'elder' if translating it not so literally. Eastern 'Master' is an incorrect translation. :blink:
Last Edit: 17 Aug 2017 12:36 by Aqua.
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