True Jedis aren't Masters

14 Aug 2017 02:37 #297240 by Whyte Horse
Whyte Horse created the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
I am no master, I know nothing. But I am a servant and I know something.

How fscked up is that? Does anyone know where that comes from? Now I understand why the jedis here choose to drop rank and become guests or novices despite the status. I would never take on an apprentice because I know jack sh!t and so I would never go for Knight or master. just sayin people

Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts. Journal
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14 Aug 2017 02:40 #297241 by ReallyRiver
ReallyRiver replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean...?

Are you saying that you don't feel a "real" Jedi would accept higher ranks?
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14 Aug 2017 02:46 #297243 by Connor L.
Connor L. replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
It was very difficult for me to have a rank bar that was orange; I wanted to use it to control.

I'm a naturally controlling person.. I tend to want to command. That is a darkness within me.

Many times when I am given power, I use it in the wrong way.

So, I understand this. And, it's part of why I have renounced knighthood level status more than once (not just here).
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14 Aug 2017 04:49 #297267 by Adder
Adder replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
I don't know where it comes from. Is it a translation from a language other then English?

We'd all know heaps of things. Even when we know the same thing it might be understood in a different context. It all comes down to the context which defines the difference between a piece of data and a piece of information. Knowledge is just awareness of information. One of the problems is when people do not accept changes in the data at its heart, or the context it exists within. People can only handle so much change at once without having to exert a lot of mental power to keep shifting in their seats, but they also might have incorporated that information into other contextual networks such as self identity, where it becomes held tightly as protected and then even exerted back outwards as a privilege.

How does rank fit into that, it's just a representation of structure, for without structure there is no thing to talk about or work with :dry:

Knight of Jediism
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Kni -- Deg -- Sem -- Vid -- Med -- Mod
...........

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14 Aug 2017 07:26 - 14 Aug 2017 07:27 #297272 by Edan
Edan replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters

Whyte Horse wrote: I am no master, I know nothing. But I am a servant and I know something.

How fscked up is that? Does anyone know where that comes from? Now I understand why the jedis here choose to drop rank and become guests or novices despite the status. I would never take on an apprentice because I know jack sh!t and so I would never go for Knight or master. just sayin people


I found the quote here but I don't know if this is the origin https://www.musixmatch.com/pt/letras/Nahko-and-Medicine-for-the-People/Black-As-Night

I don't understand the comparison you're making but for me I understoood it to mean that when you're a master you're in control and you only see your status, but as a servant you see what you have to do. I don't see a reason why the servant in this quote can't be a Knight.
Last Edit: 14 Aug 2017 07:27 by Edan.
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14 Aug 2017 07:45 - 14 Aug 2017 07:57 #297273 by Brick
Brick replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
Reminds a lot of a quote by Campbell in the IP - “He who thinks he knows, doesn't know. He who knows that he doesn't know, knows.”

In that, if you're a 'Master' you may think that you must know quite a bit to be given that title. Whereas a 'Servant' thinks they know nothing at all. And so, the 'Servant' actually knows far more than the 'Master'.

Though I share Edan's sentiment as to why the servant cannot be a knight. The do serve the Temple and its members after all.

The best knights I know here are the one's that openly admit to knowing very little at all :laugh:
Last Edit: 14 Aug 2017 07:57 by Brick.
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14 Aug 2017 08:49 #297277 by Sulabri
Sulabri replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
I think we have a false equivalency here. Mastery is often associated with incremented ability/skill (*such as a Master Craftsman) where often times when it comes to faith or indeed in any teaching element that it should be considered a level of understanding/involvement within the principle teachings. While I lived in Japan my Akido master was not a Master because he attained a rank, but because he taught many students and became known as a Master of Students.

I like the martial art equivalency as the Jedi were always designed around it in concept before it became a real faith and I think we do a disservice to forget that is part of the attraction that brought all of this about. When attaining a 'black belt' in Akido and many other martial arts you are showing that you are no longer a typical student. Levels of achievement beyond the Black Belt exist but in the old martial arts usually your rank beyond that of Black Belt is more based upon years of study rather than Mastery(Craftsman). So to equate we would say that the Knight within TotJO would have achieved the 'bar'(black belt) to where their knowledge and understanding is respected within the community when tied with service. It is a little convoluted but in layman terms Black Belt/Knighthood means that you are no longer a learner of the basics and are generally given the automatic understanding by your community that you know how to handle yourself.

All men die, but not all men live.
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14 Aug 2017 09:13 #297278 by V-Tog
V-Tog replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
I'm curious as to whether you might expand on your thoughts as to whether/how this would also pertain to Teaching 'Masters'?

You mentioned that you wouldn't feel it appropriate for yourself to take on an Apprentice, but in general, how appropriate for Jediism do you consider the Master/Apprentice model? :)
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14 Aug 2017 12:28 #297287 by Trisskar
Trisskar replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
It depends greatly on how you define "Master"

"Master" isn't a perfect square box that you become trapped into once you accept the title. It isn't a hard stop on the heros journey. It is not a end all be all kind of deal.

But Jedi, especially the younger generation, the noobies....tend to see it that way.

So let me say it again. Master Does NOT mean you "Know It All"

It simply means you have reached a stage in your journey where you are able to accept multiple students comfortably and run a semi solid program in the field you "Mastered" in. It means you have done enough practice and application to understand the basic in and out's of your study field. It means....Those who gave you the title respect you enough to take on the needed responsibilities asked of you.

If you aim to Know It All before you become a Master.....Than get ready for the longest journey of your life....and after life....because you will never get there.
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14 Aug 2017 12:41 #297290 by Sulabri
Sulabri replied the topic: True Jedis aren't Masters
@V-Tog ~ The best way to respond would be from example: While I lived in Japan I was part of the US Navy and had specialized hand-to-hand training(USMC), and when I took Aikido off duty I learned a great deal to supplement my knowledge yet I still knew some tricks, some simple and some advanced that my Aikido master did not know. Something that always stuck with me is that the Aikido Master had this trick of being all but impossible to be picked up, yet when I went to pick him up I tackled the problem like a military man and couldn't picked him up... he laughed and let me try again, this time I took a different approach, one only someone who had worked in a rodeo would know.. and I picked him up and swung him around with ease before placing him down (gently). Suddenly stood this venerated Aikido master in his late 80's shocked, bowing to me... to which all of his students bowed quickly in response. This was my 3rd Aikido class and I would show him how I tackled the problem later that lesson in private per his request, this did not make him less of an Aikido Master by any means, to me or to his students.

Students, strangers, and more can teach a Master just as much as can another Master. You know even Grandmasters in martial arts learn things from others, for Grandmaster is just an organizational term based off experience. I have a Hapkido Grandmaster as a real good friend who lives just a few hours away from me, yet I teach him things. Granted mostly it is just about technology and how to use the web, but he is never ending his journey as a learner.

All men die, but not all men live.
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