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19 Apr 2017 15:58 - 19 Apr 2017 16:04 #281247 by Wescli Wardest
After reading…

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: As beings, we exist. And because we exist we have properties. Existence is a property of being because it is found in things which exist. But existence can’t float around like the Cheshire cat’s disembodied smile, therefore it is not real. Same thing would go for the trigonometric properties of a right triangle. Sin and Cos are properties of the being of the right triangle but they do not really exist. Their emergence is dependent upon the existing things in which they are found but they do not have a separate objective existence.

Things like courage, love, femininity, hardness or “evil” are not things and have no being in and of themselves so they are not real. They are abstract ideas. Simple subjective descriptions of emergent but nominal essences of being, nothing more.


Some would agree and some would disagree. And both could make arguments that would be valid in supporting their view.

Courage can’t exist without fear. Compassion can’t exist without indifference. Can awareness be defined without knowing oblivion? Or, what is truth without illusion, deception or lies?

So, what are these abstract ideas/ideals we pursue? And why do we pursue them?

Does the pursuit of them give them credence or merit?
Last Edit: 19 Apr 2017 16:04 by Wescli Wardest.
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19 Apr 2017 19:11 - 19 Apr 2017 19:12 #281269 by Kyrin Wyldstar
I once presented a similar idea you present here to one of my Philosophy professors and was promptly shot down lol. I tried to argue that you cannot have infinity without the finite to balance it. However the finite is not actually the opposite of infinity. The opposite depends on context. If you want the opposite end of the contrast then the opposite of infinity is actually the infinitesimally small. However if we step outside of that context and look for the opposite of the contrast itself the opposite then becomes zero or nothingness – the opposite of everything contained in the contrast of infinity.

To carry this to your examples, the opposite of awareness is not oblivion, it is ignorance. Oblivion is actually the opposite contrasting scale of awareness. Same for truth, its opposite contrast is falseness not deception. Deception is actually an opposite contrasting scale. So the bigger picture we paint the more we realize that contrasts in opposites is not a construction of reality but of the individual mind due to the fact that it exists in time.

Given this idea we become not a finite thing but simply a discreet property of infinity where the mind is but the observer. It is what collapses an otherwise quantum superposition state where the execution of all possible options, ranges and diversity exists simultaneously into a single state. This is the concept of Schrodinger’s cat, individual mind looked in the box and the superposition of all possibility collapsed into a discrete position. This position will be as subjective to the individual as is the unique property of mind itself. Now the question becomes, can we even objectively define what it is we are supposedly pursuing and if so did we choose that pursuit freely or was it randomly chosen for us at the behest of the construction of reality itself?
Last Edit: 19 Apr 2017 19:12 by Kyrin Wyldstar.
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19 Apr 2017 19:41 - 19 Apr 2017 19:44 #281271 by JamesSand
I can't think of anything that isn't improved with Gin, or in this case, Pratchett.

Conversation between Susan & Death (if Pratchett is not your thing, Susan is Death's granddaughter...it's complicated)
"Death" is in all caps, that's just how he rolls -

WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF YOU HADN'T SAVED HIM?

"Yes! The sun would have risen just the same, yes?"

NO

"Oh, come on. You can't expect me to believe that. It's an astronomical fact."

THE SUN WOULD NOT HAVE RISEN.

"Really? Then what would have happened, pray?"

A MERE BALL OF FLAMING GAS WOULD HAVE ILLUMINATED THE WORLD.

“All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."

REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.

"So we can believe the big ones?"

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.


"They're not the same at all!"

YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.

"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"

MY POINT EXACTLY.

Last Edit: 19 Apr 2017 19:44 by JamesSand.
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19 Apr 2017 19:42 #281273 by Wescli Wardest
So…
Do you pursue these ideas?



Just for fun :cheer:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

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19 Apr 2017 20:30 #281275 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Wescli Wardest wrote: So…
Do you pursue these ideas?


No, I would not say that I necessarily pursue these ideas from the context that I view myself as broken or flawed at any one point in time and so I Iook to the future and plan artificial efforts to "improve who I am".

On the contrary, I find a perfection in my imperfections according to the design of reality and so instead of being unsatisfied with me, I choose to just follow my path through time and embrace each experience as an opportunity to make the best decisions I can that will result in organically modifying my nature to its best benefit.
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19 Apr 2017 21:06 #281284 by Nai_Elyob
Few things in life are as rewarding as watching the boulder tip backwards and roll back down the hill. My stroll back down to the bottom is a victory lap.

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19 Apr 2017 21:43 #281290 by Adder
I read something by Lama Choedak Yuthok recently where he made a point like how when you talk about a rosary, you usually mention how many beads are on it, but no-one hardly mentions that string!! He says that is the problem in his context of Lamdre teachings, but it's also important to note perhaps that both are required! My thoughts would be to characterize things in terms of agent, action and object... or as I prefer; spin, charge and orbit! LOL, so would the beads be the agent, string the action and rosary the object perhaps, and maybe the trick is to cycle through the iterations of each to 'feel' which one is most appropriate :S

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19 Apr 2017 22:33 #281299 by Magnus Staar
I pursue my own happiness.

That includes the happiness of those I love.

And those THEY love.

Suddenly, in my own selfish quest devoid of words like honor, peace or justice, they creep up into my life.

Because a better world for me is a better world for others as well.
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20 Apr 2017 04:56 #281312 by MartaLina

Magnus Staar wrote: I pursue my own happiness.

That includes the happiness of those I love.

And those THEY love.

Suddenly, in my own selfish quest devoid of words like honor, peace or justice, they creep up into my life.

Because a better world for me is a better world for others as well.


It always makes my morning coffee taste so much better when people finally get it , taking care and nurturing others = nurturing yourself , if you dont make the mistake of demanding too much back you can be an endless resource of Loving Kindness ;)
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20 Apr 2017 07:08 #281315 by Cyan Sarden

MartaLina wrote: if you dont make the mistake of demanding too much back you can be an endless resource of Loving Kindness ;)


that's exactly it. True and lasting happiness can only come from within yourself. As long as your happiness depends on other people, it's not lasting, as people change. But giving happiness without any pretence and expectation is something nobody can take away from you!
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