Topic-icon Jediism and Women

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16 Apr 2017 15:28 #280952 by Leah Starspectre
Note: this is a reflection based on my own recent exposure to Satanist writings and the works/words of Camille Paglia. It doesn't represent my core belief system, but one that I"m interested in exploring and/or discussing.


Men and women are different. We think differently, and our bodies work differently. According to Camille Paglia, a professor of humanities and long-time social critic, one of the differences is the "insanity factor." The main reason there are so few female geniuses in art/science/business is directly related to why there are so few female serial killers. Men tend to fall along the extremes of personality - they are more likely to become obsessive, driven and risky. The positive outcome is genius, the negative is psychopathy and sociopathy. Women tends to fall into moderate personalities: tact, diplomacy, nurture. Obviously, there are outliers, but that is the trend. Now, I'd like to see the science behind this, but to me, it has a ring of truth.

So following that logic, and looking a lot of (though not all of course) the material that I've studied here. A lot of it was written for men, by men: warriors, monks and philosophers - other examples of these more extreme/masculine personality types. And, not surprisingly, when I look around the Temple, the average member is male.

So what does Jediism have to offer to the feminine (sacred feminine?)? Be it to women, or the feminine nature of men? My masculine self is constantly fed by studies in stoic warrior mentality, while my passive emotional feminine side seems to go hungry a lot of the time. Surely one isn't "better" than the other. In order to be in balance with ourselves and with The Force, wouldn't we strive to embrace both the masculine and feminine? Or is Jediism by nature, a masculine place?

Now, this is NOT a "calling out" or call for change - I like Jediism as it is. It's just something that popped into my head that I think might be an interesting discussion.
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16 Apr 2017 15:45 #280955 by MadHatter
Jediism is not by its nature a masculine place. However, the mythos that it was developed from does tend to attract more men than women so it seems more likely men then women would stumble into groups such as the Temple. However, Jediism is based on a group of warrior monks that were supposed to be great diplomats and healers. Both traits are among those listed as feminine in nature in your original post.

So what do I think that means or what do I think we can do with such information? Well, the fact is that we should work on developing courses that encourage the study of diplomacy, conflict resolution, and first aid skills. Almost all of this can be found for free. The rounding out of our studies with such skills and lessons can only help us as Jedi.
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16 Apr 2017 16:20 #280956 by Reiji

Leah Starspectre wrote: Note:Men and women are different. We think differently, and our bodies work differently. According to Camille Paglia, a professor of humanities and long-time social critic, one of the differences is the "insanity factor." The main reason there are so few female geniuses in art/science/business is directly related to why there are so few female serial killers. Men tend to fall along the extremes of personality - they are more likely to become obsessive, driven and risky. The positive outcome is genius, the negative is psychopathy and sociopathy. Women tends to fall into moderate personalities: tact, diplomacy, nurture. Obviously, there are outliers, but that is the trend. Now, I'd like to see the science behind this, but to me, it has a ring of truth.


Science and statistics have debunked several of myths that Camille Paglia stated.

1) Serie Killers have mostly males with high IQ's.
-The reality is that most serial killers who have had their IQ tested score between borderline and above average intelligence. This is very consistent with the general population. Contrary to mythology, it is not high intelligence that makes serial killers successful.

2) There are more male serial killers than women.
-The reality concerning the gender of serial killers is quite different than the mythology of it. Although there have been many more male serial killers than females throughout history, the presence of female serial killers is well documented in the crime data.

In fact, approximately 17 percent of all serial homicides in the U.S. are committed by women. Interestingly, only 10 percent of total murders in the U.S. are committed by women. Therefore, relative to men, women represent a larger percentage of serial murders than all other homicide cases in the U.S. This is an important and revealing fact that defies the popular understanding of serial murder.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/5-myt...hey-persist-excerpt/


There are differences between male and females both physically and mentally due to sexual dimorphism--there's nothing wrong with that since our difference is part of nature where all masculine and feminine things in existences embody different functions. Warriors, monks, and philosophers are not extreme male personality types, but are more of what a person can become due to constantly training and refining themselves to goal, occupation, belief, path, etc. Just like an athlete who trains themselves to reach peak physical condition, a person can dedicate themselves to achieve something extraordinary in whatever they chose in life.

From what I learned so far, Jediism is not only walking the path of a warrior, monk, philosopher. We're taught how to be diplomatic with the people in our life and how to take more passive routes when dealing with conflicts. Considering everything that in taught in the doctrine and IP lessons I feel Jediism is more passive with subtle active elements within it.

However, if there is truly a lack of feminine principals in Jediism, then that is something that needs to be addressed. At the Force Academy, in the Dark Aspect, there's a Lady of the Sith that teaches the sacred feminine aspect of the dark side. Maybe the female Jedi here at TOTJO should try to have sermons and topics in the forums dealing with the feminine aspects of Jediism.

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16 Apr 2017 16:34 - 16 Apr 2017 16:38 #280957 by Leah Starspectre

Reiji wrote: Science and statistics have debunked several of myths that Camille Paglia stated.

1) Serie Killers have mostly males with high IQ's.
-The reality is that most serial killers who have had their IQ tested score between borderline and above average intelligence. This is very consistent with the general population. Contrary to mythology, it is not high intelligence that makes serial killers successful.


I wasn't talking about IQ, but about tendency to obsession/drive/risk.

Reiji wrote: 2) There are more male serial killers than women.
-The reality concerning the gender of serial killers is quite different than the mythology of it. Although there have been many more male serial killers than females throughout history, the presence of female serial killers is well documented in the crime data.

In fact, approximately 17 percent of all serial homicides in the U.S. are committed by women. Interestingly, only 10 percent of total murders in the U.S. are committed by women. Therefore, relative to men, women represent a larger percentage of serial murders than all other homicide cases in the U.S. This is an important and revealing fact that defies the popular understanding of serial murder.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/5-myt...hey-persist-excerpt/ [/i]



I never said that there are no female serial killers, but that there are much less. Which your statistics seem to support. Again, this is about the proposed fact that men are more likely to have the kind extreme personalities lead to genius/insanity than women.

Reiji wrote: There are differences between male and females both physically and mentally due to sexual dimorphism--there's nothing wrong with that since our difference is part of nature where all masculine and feminine things in existences embody different functions. Warriors, monks, and philosophers are not extreme male personality types, but are more of what a person can become due to constantly training and refining themselves to goal, occupation, belief, path, etc. Just like an athlete who trains themselves to reach peak physical condition, a person can dedicate themselves to achieve something extraordinary in whatever they chose in life.



I'm agreeing with with sexual dimorphism. And the extreme personality is what leads to the kind of dedicated (obsessive?) training for warriors/monks/athletes, etc.

Reiji wrote: From what I learned so far, Jediism is not only walking the path of a warrior, monk, philosopher. We're taught how to be diplomatic with the people in our life and how to take more passive routes when dealing with conflicts. Considering everything that in taught in the doctrine and IP lessons I feel Jediism is more passive with subtle active elements within it.

However, if there is truly a lack of feminine principals in Jediism, then that is something that needs to be addressed. At the Force Academy, in the Dark Aspect, there's a Lady of the Sith that teaches the sacred feminine aspect of the dark side. Maybe the female Jedi here at TOTJO should try to have sermons and topics in the forums dealing with the feminine aspects of Jediism.


Thats what I'm wondering - if we shouldn't encourage more "feminine" study.
Last Edit: 16 Apr 2017 16:38 by Leah Starspectre.

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16 Apr 2017 16:36 #280958 by Leah Starspectre

MadHatter wrote: Jediism is not by its nature a masculine place. However, the mythos that it was developed from does tend to attract more men than women so it seems more likely men then women would stumble into groups such as the Temple. However, Jediism is based on a group of warrior monks that were supposed to be great diplomats and healers. Both traits are among those listed as feminine in nature in your original post.

So what do I think that means or what do I think we can do with such information? Well, the fact is that we should work on developing courses that encourage the study of diplomacy, conflict resolution, and first aid skills. Almost all of this can be found for free. The rounding out of our studies with such skills and lessons can only help us as Jedi.


Yes, I'm wondering if maybe the inclusion of these topics as part of established course material might round out Jedi education! I say this not because it's not available in the world, but that that the masculine side seems to be the focus here a lot of the time.

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16 Apr 2017 16:58 #280959 by JLSpinner
My teacher, Phortis, included in my apprenticeship these very things. I studied diplomacy and influence. I became certified for First-aid, AED, and CPR. I learned meditations and complimentary therapies. I've delved into the root causes of emotion. The softer side of Jediism had been the majority focus of my learning post IP.
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16 Apr 2017 17:30 #280960 by Reiji

Leah Starspectre wrote: I wasn't talking about IQ, but about tendency to obsession/drive/risk....Again, this is about the proposed fact that men are more likely to have the kind extreme personalities lead to genius/insanity than women.


Being a genius requires a person to have a high IQ. An IQ of 130 and above is categories as being a genius. You cannot talk about a person being a genius without measuring their IQ. Therefore data shows that serial killers on average have an average to an above-average levels of IQ, which places them within the ranks of the normal population. Having an obsession, or high drive, or being prone to risk has nothing to do with leading a person to be a genius/insane/serial killer.

People who are insane/serial killers have low orbital cortex activity in their brains. The orbital cortex part of the brain is said to be the area that controls behavior, moral decision-making, and impulse control. Low orbital cortex activity means less normal suppression of behaviors such as rage, violence, eating, sex, and drinking. Neurologist Jim Fallon said:

"People with low orbital cortex activity are either free-wheeling (free spirits) types or sociopaths". (in essence, we gotta be suspicious of the free spirits lol j/p =p

So, it's not really people with obsession, drives, risk prone who are insane/serial killers, but its people who have a less than normal sense of self-control based on low orbital cortex activity--meaning It's not extreme male personality but rather a lack of normal self-control due to a part of the brain that is not functioning at the proper level.

Leah Starspectre wrote: I'm agreeing with with sexual dimorphism. And the extreme personality is what leads to the kind of dedicated (obsessive?) training for warriors/monks/athletes, etc.


There is nothing extreme with having a dedication to being the best at what you do. To be honest that is just evolution which leads humans to become better then what they were in their former state. Dysfunctional personality types are mostly people with normal intelligence with low orbital cortex activity.

Leah Starspectre wrote: Thats what I'm wondering - if we shouldn't encourage more "feminine" study.


Jediism is feminine due to the passivity of its doctrine and teachings. I compare Jediism with the soft style (feminine) martial arts such as tai chi, wing chun, aikido, etc. While Sithism is more like the hard style (masculine) martial arts such as kickboxing, Brazilian jujitsu, Muay Thai, etc.

What would be your ideal feminine study include?

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16 Apr 2017 18:15 #280962 by Kyrin Wyldstar
I don't buy into the idea that there are more male geniuses than female either. I think the difference lies in the male dominated societies. The males got the credit because the males wrote the histories. But that is being rewritten now as well and fair credit is being given where due to the female roles in history.

www.eoht.info/m/page/IQ%3A+150%2B+%7C+Smartest+woman+ever
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16 Apr 2017 18:46 - 16 Apr 2017 18:47 #280965 by OB1Shinobi
maybe people should hear camile say it in her own words (uh, shes not easy to listen to at first though lol just stick with it)
you really ought to read her books or listen to her give the entire speech to understand her. this clip is as good as I could find in relatively short and digestible length

Last Edit: 16 Apr 2017 18:47 by OB1Shinobi.
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16 Apr 2017 18:59 - 16 Apr 2017 18:59 #280966 by Proteus
I feel Jediism has both the masculine and feminine principles likely equal, but just playing different roles.

First, let's keep in mind that these principles have nothing really to do with gender, but to do with different aspects of our own humanity in which every male has a certain portion of femininity in them and females, a certain portion of masculinity.

Much of the basis of Jediism, I feel, is derived from the feminine principle of caring, nurturing, loving compassion, and which its focus is very circular, which is the movement of the feminine principle as opposed to the masculine (strait solid lines).

However, there are different methods of deploying that "base" which can be derived from masculine means, such as through the nuances of the "warrior" and many characteristics that revolve around that whole image.

But these are two things that I think are good to learn about seeing both of and developing one's balance in, so that we are not relying too much on masculine aspects nor feminine ones. Each plays a role and each compliments the other. Both need each other.
Last Edit: 16 Apr 2017 18:59 by Proteus.
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