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    • The Force as described by a physicist? (Last post by Gisteron)
    • What, again? Alright, let's get on with it then... Quote: there is a very real possibility that science is going to wipe us off the face of the earth No, there isn't. No part of either the body of knowledge gained through science nor any part of the philosophy of science would motivate that. Now, the former may enable it in a very literal sense, in that it gives us potentially catastrophical tools, but whoever ends up using them to that end will be doing so on no scientific grounds. Quote: scientifically speaking, there is no real reason not to Agreed. There is no real reason not to, that includes that there is no scientific reason either. Quote: all things being equal, THAT I FEEL LIKE IT is as good a reason to "drop the bomb" as any, and more and more entities have access to "the bomb" than ever in our history And what if I don't feel like it? Will access to the bomb mean that I will wish to drop it all the more? See, I'm granting you that science can give us the bomb, but it can't give us reasons to drop it - or not to drop it. Quote: i dont know that i accept the idea that a model of understanding reality which may very well result in the obliteration of the entire species is the only, or the best of all potential models I don't know if it is the best possible either, but it is the best of all those currently available. But of course, science is not a very solid model at any rate. Its defining criterion is reliability, so if you find any reliable means to know things that are not currently part of science, they will become part of it that very instant. Ironically however your criticism will still apply, because regardless of how you go about knowing things, you will not end up with a real reason not to wipe everybody out, because motivations are subject to the individual whereas facts are subject to the collective and that is not a mere gap but a proper discontinuity. Quote: science is a baby from an evolutionary perspective, and still quite juvenile in terms of the history of human civilization And a thirty-year-old has only been adult for ten, maybe twelve years. So therefore her adulthood is by all means prepubescent. Look, I'm not saying science is flawless. There is a lot it lacks in. You however make it seem as though that is so bad that we should drop science in favour of something better rather than just watch out for its limitations. I'll join your side the instance you can present something that has achieved half the good in the past 30000 years that science has in the past 300 and if that isn't quite generous enough, I will allow the thing you suggest to also produce any and all kinds of evil along the way. Quote: ... "mythology" and "religion" offer models of understanding reality which are much older, and which are equally "true" and very possibly much more functional for the maximal survival of the species, and the psychological well being of the individual I'm no psychologist, so please correct me if I'm wrong in saying that there is little psychologically healthy about thinking of yourself as vermin deserving a fate worse than death nor in having continued relationships with invisible friends well into adulthood. At least a part of this is true of almost every religion and cultural mythology I ever heard of. Neither mythology nor religion do offer models of understanding reality that are anywhere near as "true" as those offered by science by almost all definitions of truth that are not begging the question. As for their functionality for the maximal survival of the species I shall say this: Back in the day science and religion coexisted, at least as far as the latter would allow the former. Two of the ideas that were around in that day were that smallpox is a plague and that the Jews were a plague. Smallpox made people suffer to death. Jews didn't. Science left the Jews alone and took their labs to smallpox. Religion took their prayers to smallpox and their swords to the Jews. By the 1980's smallpox was eradicated. The Jews are still around to this day. They were never a threat, seldom fought back and no good would've come from wiping them out, and yet even at that religion failed. Quote: objective material reality is not the EXPERIENCED HUMAN REALITY which we live, so there is a limit to what knowledge of material objects, external to the self, can do for us Correct. And those limits are far. They are further than the limits of the alternative you suggest which keeps telling us to quit investigating even our full-caps experienced human reality. Quote: this is not to suggest that i am sitting here typing a message to the internet on my smartphone, in my air conditioned apartment, to say that i am ANTI science No, of course not; who would possibly think such a preposterous thing after in every thread science comes up you go out of your way to declare it inferior to superstition. Quote: i have a great fascination with scientific discovery and i dont hesitate to say that it benefits us in inumerable ways i just like to promote an appreciation of ALL forms of useful, beneficial knowledge and wisdom, and that includes areas and subject which many consider to be unscientific No, it actually really doesn't include those. If it did, you could by now have named one piece of knowledge that was at all reliable, let alone useful or beneficial, that did not come from science. But you can't, because science is not by recognition but by definition the only thing that can generate any such knowledge - at least when it comes to actual reality.
    • Heaven, Hell, Re-incarnation? (Last post by Loudzoo)
    • I believe heaven and hell (and purgatory for that matter) do exist - not as places we go after we die, but psychological spaces we inhabit whilst we're alive. Most simply hell is separation (selfishness), heaven is connection (love) and purgatory is that feeling I experience most of the time: some combination of the two. None of these states are permanent - they are all subject to change. However, through practice we can gain some control as to which psychological space we reside in. As for any experience after physical death, I agree with Liwa Nim, it is probably very similar to the experience before birth (or conception, or whatever). I like the Richard Bach quote on this: "What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly." Its off-topic but I was enjoying the discussion on the prevalence of metaphor in our human experience - might start another thread on that . . . *ponders*
    • Strenght (Last post by MartaLina)
    • Quote: 0 Quote: Quote: My personal view of the Force only allows strength and weakness in the way someone chooses to feel the Force, I don't believe one can be strong or weak with regards to how much the Force is within them. I see , so it does not matter how strong someone is , if he chooses not to feel the Force , it can do nothing for him ? It is a fact that not only strong people do the right thing, but we keep telling eachother to be strong thats what bothers me. No not quite... The Force just 'is', it has no sentiency or capability in my opinion to 'do' anything for us. I'm not sure what context you've read someone being told to be strong, but usually you use that phrase when someone is struggling with something, telling them to be strong is really telling them to realise that they have strength... Yes i get that , that you want to tell someone that they have strenght even if they dont feel it that way, we are way stronger than we think. But my question is , do i have to be strong to be a Jedi ? And if a Jedi is weak , is he then a failure , and where does he get that strenght if not from believing in the Force ? And i agree that the Force just Is , it is also what i think it is , off course i am struggling to integrate this what Is into my system for i am somewhat stubborn haha
    • a new toy for fitness (Last post by RyuJin)
    • Quote: people dont realize how demanding it is to throw combinations at a fighting pace - its tough it's been so long that i had forgotten how demanding it could be....luckily my first try with it i went easy....just did the 1 minute session...40 lights 35 hits...
    • Techwear for Jedi (Last post by Jestor)
    • Quote: Yes! I am a big fan of this idea. Betabrand used to carry more of this, but not as much now. It was often very expensive. I have a decent edc set that goes everywhere with me. Multitool, flaslights, knife, cordage, space blanket, poncho, etc. I've been thinking about an augmented set for my car. Bigger tools, first aid, stuff I could throw on in a pinch, perhaps in something like this. It often comes back to money, but I think about this often. I tell you, I search for "cop clothes" (just for window shopping), as I have access to some of their magazines, and that stuff reminds me of the 5.11 brand of clothing...
    • Rants far and wide (Last post by Cayce)
    • I've been interested in becoming a certified Yoga instructor / teacher for some time now, but the cost of Certification is insane. Most places in my area charge $2,500 to $3,000. I so hate how certifications have turned into cash grabs. Ugh.
    • A Message (Last post by 6h057)
    • Agreed. I think that for any real religious order to work, it needs to be a group of philosophers/scholars that can comfortably agree to disagree. I don't like any system that props up anyone's right to pontificate to others as if they are somehow more in tune with the mystical or have God speaking in their ear. However I have a tendency to approach life a little dudeist and inject as much Slack as is appropriate.
    • The Thing All Women Do That You Don’t Know About (Last post by carlos.martinez3)
    • I see. It takes courage to admit this. It takes wisdom to see that it's not ONLY a women problem. It's a people problem. It is sad to see hate in any form. Can we deliver the opposite? Is it possible to build, not only female but male too, instead of breaking things down. Me and my wife remove the man and woman words as often and see the heart or the person. We ALL have some sort of coping mechanism. The day we as humans stop hurting humans will be a great day, till then friends take care of each other. The ones that are closest. My own opinion, sad things make me,sad but they also allow me to hold my own closer and appreciate them better. Thanks Akkarin for this one!
    • Today I felt lonely... (Last post by Almeida)
    • And then, I decided I couldn't just let myself feeling it. Loneliness brings emptiness, emptiness brings sadness, sadness brings anger and we all know it leads us to the Dark Side. I decided to close my eyes and clean my head. I leaned backwards, with my head leaning on my window safety net. There, with eyes closed, I opened up my hearing, and listened to everything that was to be listened to. I listened to the sound of cars coming and going, I listened to people having fun or just living their lives, I listened to the sound of the wind. When I was just thinking that the wind brings air, the air that I breath and the same air that everyone else breathes, one of my cats jumped on the window, and laid there, right beside my head. Breathing exactly the same air, showing me I was not alone. Then, I felt some raindrops on my face. The drops that evaporated into air and became clouds and were now falling. Once were part of something bigger, bathing people on rivers, waterfalls, in the ocean. They were transformed over and over and over again, until they were but a single drop of rain that fell in my face and was absorbed by my skin. Now, that very small part of the biggest of the oceans, were inside me, part of me. By means of that single drop, I was connected to everyone who had bathed in those waters. By the wind that was blowing into my face, I was connected to everyone who was breathing the same air. By the Force inside and outside, I am connected to every single thing in the Universe. And I didn't feel lonely anymore.
    • How did you know when you were a Jedi? (Last post by Bareus)
    • When searching for news about buddhism on a swedish newspaper, i found jediism (through that the article described that jediis was like a mix of several philosophies) The moment i read the article i knew that was the true philosophy for me, ever since i registrated here it has become more of a way to live then just a way to think (wich it also is)
    • Physical temple (Last post by Kitsu Tails)
    • Quote: Why not donate to the TOTJO instead? Donations are (I would think) a much higher priority being that the site needs money to stay running, rather than a physical temple that much fewer members will have the luxury to visit... Truth. Donations to the community is a far more worthy cause. I try and inform folks that there are many Jedi that could use the help more so than a physical temple. Gatherings themselves need alot of help and if folks cant even make it to a do we expect them to make it to a temple? A gathering averages about $4,000 a year. (Community Wide / Not sure what it is for TOTJO's gatherings) $150 per person (Although that pricing has been going up) Aaand I can't find the thread that discussed TOTJO's Expenses but I know it was nearing a $500 mark per year....Jestor or Br. John would know more? I think...I know from my own web experience that it is pricey to keep a place like this up and running. And then of course there are the individual communities and Jedi such as Rosalynns Jedi Community Action group. Or those that Run for Charity. As Jedi. What we do is far more important than where we go. :)
    • The Grateful Thread (Last post by Alexandre Orion)
    • All my apprentices ... every last one of them ... and theirs too .... ... and some that aren't mine, but still ! ... and some who aren't quite apprentices yet, but still ! ;) Stars in the chilly clear mid-winter night ....

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