IP suggestion: Jordan Peterson

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09 Aug 2019 20:06 #341114 by VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar

Manu wrote:

Tempest Nox wrote: It’s sadly true that the whole “bawling, screaming, leftist throwing a temper tantrum” is a real thing, not just a stereotype.


But it is a stereotype.


Tempest never said it was not a stereotype. She said its a real thing in addition to the stereotype. Stereotypes exist for a reason, even if that reason is only unfounded perception. However in this case there is evidence, even if that evidence is circumstantial and it is invalid to apply it to the group in question. So why do you feel such a stereotype exists?

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09 Aug 2019 20:18 #341115 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic IP suggestion: Jordan Peterson
Irrelevant.

I understand what a stereotype is and that they come to be for a reason. I am calling into question Phoenix’s intent in responding the way she did. I see no other consequence but divisiveness and offense. If I was wrong, please clarify.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Step aggressively toward your fear. - Jocko Willink

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09 Aug 2019 20:26 #341119 by VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar
well if you feel my question is irrelevant then I think our conversation here is done.

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09 Aug 2019 21:05 - 09 Aug 2019 21:08 #341122 by Phoenix Vidensia

Manu wrote:
But it is a stereotype. Gross over-generalization does nothing but make you look childish at best, and manipulative at worst. Right-leaning individuals can get just as ridiculous as left-leaning ones. I prefer to judge a person on an individual basis, rather than tossing them into some randomly declared group. Radicalism and tribalism is the problem we should be attacking here, not promoting more of with these thoughtless posts.


1. Both left and right are wings of the same bird. I refuse to fly with one wing. Tends to result in crashes.

2. It’s a stereotype, yes. Did I say it wasn’t?

3. Personally, I don’t consider tribalism to be a problem in need of solving.

4. As for “radicalism”, it depends who you ask. Some extremism is smiled on in the media and some is condemned. Personally? I think I qualify as having some extremist views. Does it bother you that I do?

... Meh ...
Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 21:08 by Phoenix Vidensia.
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09 Aug 2019 21:07 #341123 by Phoenix Vidensia

Manu wrote: Irrelevant.

I understand what a stereotype is and that they come to be for a reason. I am calling into question Phoenix’s intent in responding the way she did. I see no other consequence but divisiveness and offense. If I was wrong, please clarify.


My intention isn’t what matters, only what I wrote and the result of it. However, the result is on those who reacted as they did.

... Meh ...

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10 Aug 2019 00:13 #341142 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic IP suggestion: Jordan Peterson

Phoenix Vidensia wrote:

Manu wrote: Irrelevant.

I understand what a stereotype is and that they come to be for a reason. I am calling into question Phoenix’s intent in responding the way she did. I see no other consequence but divisiveness and offense. If I was wrong, please clarify.


My intention isn’t what matters, only what I wrote and the result of it. However, the result is on those who reacted as they did.


Well, it did matter to me, as the general conversation had seem to be leaning towards name calling and taunting, and in my response I intended to:

1) Clarify my position in the whole matter.

2) Distance myself from your replies to avoid being perceived as if we were on the “same team”, so to speak.

As for your extremism bothering me, how could it? I have no idea what it is you are extreme about.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Step aggressively toward your fear. - Jocko Willink

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13 Aug 2019 12:57 - 13 Aug 2019 12:57 #341186 by Brick
*Returning 1 week after originally posting in this thread and seeing that it has, unsurprisingly, descended into chaos*

Anyway......

Sure, Jordan Peterson is a divisive character and says some controversial things, but why should that exclude his works from the IP?

The majority of the tasks in the IP are based around asking the Initiate to write what they 'feel/think' about the subject. Its perfectly OK to disagree with parts of the IP. Half of my IP Journal is just me rambling about how much I disagree with Watts on stuff lol.

There are lessons to be learnt simply by exposing ourselves to certain ideas and concepts, whether we agree with any of them or not. I think Jordan Peterson does a good job of making people think about what he says either way and is therefore worthy of having a spot in the IP.

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Last edit: 13 Aug 2019 12:57 by Brick.
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13 Aug 2019 19:18 #341193 by steamboat28

Brick wrote: The majority of the tasks in the IP are based around asking the Initiate to write what they 'feel/think' about the subject. Its perfectly OK to disagree with parts of the IP. Half of my IP Journal is just me rambling about how much I disagree with Watts on stuff lol.


There's a marked difference between disagreeing with a philosopher on random points and actively supporting a bigot.

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13 Aug 2019 20:16 #341195 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic IP suggestion: Jordan Peterson

steamboat28 wrote: There's a marked difference between disagreeing with a philosopher on random points and actively supporting a bigot.


Steam, I feel as if I owe you an apology. Kelrax Lorcken made a good point: I shouldn't have dismissed your opinion only because it was expressed emotionally. So, I am sorry.

I still would like to know in which ways do you believe that Jordan Peterson is a bigot.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Step aggressively toward your fear. - Jocko Willink

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13 Aug 2019 22:22 #341198 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic IP suggestion: Jordan Peterson
First, the last time the IP was changed, they removed the Turning Point (hooray). I can't think of any alterations before that, so this thread is unlikely to change the IP.

Second, the video Manu posted was almost rehashing Watts, and didn't have any of JP's questionable philosophy in it.

Third, even if we did include like a compilation of every thing JP has said that could be construed as homophobic as a lesson in understanding adversarial beliefs, that wouldn't make TotJO a homophobic site by any stretch of the imagination. We explicitly support the whole quiltbag bevy in our doctrine, and pragmatically don't have any senior members who could be considered homophobic.

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