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    • Dealing with laziness (Last post by Rickie)
    • Quote: Good advice and yes...patience. I try to remember that my anger or frustration with them will not change the situation. That does help. What if the people don't care at all what you do or say though? The laziness I am talking about is seen more as a privilege than a problem. Live your life the best you can. Be a good example to others. Some people need a gently reminder or two. They will only change when the see the error of their ways. If the never do, choose your friends and roommates carefully. Live your life the best you can...etc :)
    • Double MTHFR Mutation (Last post by Rickie)
    • Quote: Thank you very much for all your pointers. I try to get at least a little sunlight everyday but it's apparently not enough. Still, I'll try to increase my time outdoors. I take Vit D. I also use full spectrum lights in my office and my home. They make a real big difference in my energy levels. Especially in the afternoon. Be well. :) Outdoors is best by far but isn't always easy to get out. :(
    • "...we are all responsible not only for ourse... (Last post by Adder)
    • I think the assumption that might occur is that it is the burden of responsibility that he means, but instead reckon its meant to be rather a measure of it only. As such it would be variable, and the most importance/relevance being for many that the relationship is even in existence. Mindfulness to this relationship can take many forms but some might work better then others, and abuse of becoming attached to 'participation' can itself be its own problem. I think his audience is mostly the self centered egoist because he was bought up in such an artificial environment of intense spiritual training that his worldview made many other people's behaviour look terribly self centered, IMO.
    • TOTJO Heritage (Last post by Lykeios)
    • Wow! Thanks for compiling that! Looks great! This is good information and it is appreciated. :) I'll take a closer look soon. Glad there's a record of such things, very interesting.
    • The Imperishable Gem (Last post by Edan)
    • I like this story.. "When William Penn was convinced of the principles of Friends, and became a frequent attendant at their meetings, he did not immediately relinquish his gay apparel; it is even said that he wore a sword, as was then customary among men of rank and fashion. Being one day in company with George Fox, he asked his advice concerning it, saying that he might, perhaps, appear singular among Friends, but his sword had once been the means of saving his life without injuring his antagonist, and moreover, that Christ had said, ‘He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.’ George Fox answered, ‘I advise thee to wear it as long as thou canst.’ Not long after this they met again, when William had no sword, and George said to him, ‘William, where is thy sword?’ ‘Oh!’ said he, ‘I have taken thy advice; I wore it as long as I could.’" Samuel Janney, 1852
    • Knight hosted IP Discussion in Chat - Friday 5th F... (Last post by Edan)
    • Please find below a transcription of the discussion. I have edited it to remove any superfluous comments and chat bot interruptions so that the questions and answers are clear to read. I have also attempted to identify the different discussions so that one does not need to read everything to find something an answer they are looking for. Posting IP responses, masters and knighthood Spoiler: (20:51:39) ergone: lol. so question after I finish the initiates program how do I get assigned a teaching master for lack of better words (20:52:27) Edan: Either a knight would approach you ergone.. or you could always approach one of them (20:52:47) Kale-Patronus: i have a question (20:52:47) ergone: but I have to complete the ip first (20:52:56) Edan: Yes you do (20:53:03) ergone: like listen to each lesson and write in the journals about it? (20:53:11) Edan: That's right (20:53:28) Gisteron: the lessons tell you what's expected. its not always listening (20:53:35) Gisteron: some ask to research and comment (20:53:44) ergone: im just making sure I understand what I have to do so I can get it done and move up lol (20:53:44) Gisteron: but yea, very school-esque stuff (20:53:52) Edan: G's right... they will give you instructions, but you can always ask if you get stuck (20:53:56) ergone: ok. so whats the best ideaa (20:54:05) ergone: what am I supposed to do witht he journal entries (20:54:20) Proteus: reflect what you think about the material (20:54:24) Kale-Patronus: when i do my Knighthood. like when my master knights me. how would that cerimony go with me being in Missouri...... would they come here..... or do it online? how would i apprintice? same way? i just dont know (20:54:26) Proteus: what you understand and how you feel about it (20:54:34) Proteus: maybe what it makes you think about concerning yoruself and your life (20:54:35) ergone: ok so reflect on each leasson. sounds good (20:54:36) Edan: It would be done online Kale (20:54:44) Edan: We have had only two knightings in person (I think) (20:54:49) ergone: i can do that. ") (20:54:50) Gisteron: all in due time, kale. ;) (20:54:51) ergone: :) (20:54:53) Proteus: helps to create a bit of a profile about who you are, for knights to get an idea of you (20:55:02) ergone: ahhhh (20:55:09) ergone: lol ok. (20:55:36) Gisteron: most who join leave before even finishing much of the IP, let alone reaching knighthood :D (20:55:42) Kale-Patronus: that makes me sad.. (20:55:57) ergone: this will be a little difficult. im deployed so i cant always listen to the material, and when i get off work i usually go right to sleep but im gonna squeeze in about an hour, or each section of a lesson (20:56:10) ergone: y do they leave (20:56:30) Gisteron: probably disillusioned. expected something different. idk. (20:56:32) Edan: There's no time limit ergone, just do it when you can (20:56:39) Proteus: take your time. let it come as it can naturally upon opportunity and inspiration (20:56:39) ergone: oh ok cool (20:56:42) ergone: :) (20:56:49) Senan: The IP is actual work and some aren't ready to put in the time. (20:57:04) Senan: There is no rush though (20:57:07) steamboat28: Senan, I might personally argue the former section of that point. (20:57:11) steamboat28: Though it is time-consuming. (20:57:13) carlos.martinez3: there are many reasons (20:57:13) ergone: oh i can do work. lol (20:57:16) Edan: When I joined I let my big ego get in the way... had to come back a few months later and try again.. (20:57:18) Gisteron: there's not even much of a quality standard at that, ergone. if what you end up with is cut into yet more bits, made all the less cohesive for it, and they see that you have put thought into it anyway, that's good enough for most :D (20:57:28) Senan: It took me over two years to get it done around work and family (20:57:51) ergone: cool (20:57:59) Gisteron: it took me under two weeks, Senan. :P (20:58:07) ergone: cause i have a hard time putting my thoughts on paper or in words sometimes (20:58:07) carlos.martinez3: I did my ip while waiting tables and managins two resturaunts lol (21:01:20) ergone: lol now can u have in person teachers or is that all online as well (21:01:23) J_Roz: Hello (21:01:29) Chuy: Hello Roz (21:01:39) Aqua: Hello mr J :) (21:01:47) Avalonslight: Yay Dec!!! (21:01:51) Edan: If you could find a knight near you willing to take you on then it could be in person, but it is likely to be online (21:02:08) steamboat28: @Edan, I believe I remember once the statement that even if you do it in person, the work must be turned in online. (21:02:21) Edan: Yes it must be... it must be evidenced (21:02:28) Kale-Patronus: Ergone i think its online. but when i become a knight imma find someone in my own state. that way its in oerson. (21:02:30) Edan: Even if it was turned in all at the end having been done in person Public situations with a Jedi, Membership and other Jedi organisations Spoiler: (21:07:35) Kale-Patronus: i was reading some jedi stuff online. and there was thisarticle about a guy getting kicked out mcdonalds for refusing to tyake off his hood....is that real? whats with the hood?? (21:08:27) Edan: He is a member of the Jedi Church (I think, knights correct me?). I think his reasoning was that it's 'part of his religion'.. but I'm not sure for what reason exactly (21:08:47) Edan: We don't have any rules over clothing here so I doubt anyone from TOTJO would have that issue (21:08:48) Connor_L.: Church of Jediism (21:08:54) Connor_L.: Different group (21:08:56) Edan: That's it.. I was close (21:10:03) Kale-Patronus: :help: why is aginst his religion though. what does the hood signify? (21:10:08) steamboat28: The individual in question was a member of a UK-based Jedi group unaffiliated with TOTJO in any manner. He was utilizing an excuse (as I've not seen the hood mentioned anywhere in their standard doctrine prior to the event in question) to get around security measures that requested he remove headwear for identification and security purposes. (21:10:31) Edan: Yes... that's it. Someone from the same group did it in my town at a Jobcentre too.. (21:10:45) Edan: Kale, I am not sure what it signified I'm afraid (21:10:55) Edan: What's your question ergone? (21:11:27) ergone: ok so there is a church and the temple here. we r the same right or is there a difference? and we both believe in the samething correct? (21:11:49) ergone: once ur a member of the temple ur a member of the church correct (21:12:27) Edan: The Temple of the Jedi ORder is a church, so membership to the Order is effectively membership of the church (21:12:41) Gisteron: no. there is not "a church". there are a couple of places that call themselves churches of jediism, and totjo happens to be registered as one in the state of Texas. (21:12:55) Edan: Not a church as in a physical building (21:13:04) Lykeios: different organizations unless I'm mistaken (21:13:10) Edan: The Church of Jediism is a bit different to us though... I do not think we believe exactly the same (21:13:16) Edan: And we are not the same organisation (21:13:49) Gisteron: :important: as for what they believe, that's an individual matter. some do have a doctrine, some don't, and among those that do, not always do all members share all that is included. (21:14:05) steamboat28: The Temple of the Jedi Order (TOTJO, where you are now) is a unique entity, separate from all other Jedi and Jediist organizations. The Church of Jediism and many other organizations, take their names and teachings from the same source, but we all evolved separately and differently. (21:14:07) Edan: Gisteron is right... there are some differences between what individual members believe (21:15:36) Edan: To add, membership of TOTJO's site isn't membership of the Temple itself, that requires the membership application (21:15:58) ergone: ok. this is one of the big churches and there a several little or separate ones. kind of like catholics have different beloiefs in there own religion. but if u r part of the temple everyone else recognizes ura jedi correct (21:16:22) ergone: and how do u send in an application to the temple itself (21:16:41) Edan: For the application, on the main site go to 'My TOTJO' then 'Jedi Application' (21:17:19) Edan: And we are one of the more active (and probably bigger) groups. But if you said you were a member of TOTJO at another site they would generally understand what you believe (though there are belief differences between groups) Mindwalk/The Field, lesson options and bonus lessons Spoiler: (21:17:51) Senan: In Lesson 4 of the IP, we can choose to read Mindwalk or The Field? One over the other? Should we be doing both? (21:18:19) Edan: Neither is preferred, it's your choice (21:18:52) carlos.martinez3: if you learn from one lesson imagine how much you will with both... (21:19:13) Edan: You can do both... but it's not required (21:19:44) steamboat28: I would highly suggest doing all the optional lessons, and both lessons anytime you're presented with a choice. they really round out the program. (21:19:55) steamboat28: Even if you don't do it right now, come back and do them after you finish the IP. (21:20:08) Edan: Yes... the bonuses are good but few do them usually (21:20:46) Aqua: I wanted to comment on Steam, every lesson can be written out depending on what you want to write? The lesson options are only a suggestion? (21:21:29) Edan: The options within a lesson both comment on the same topic, but it's up to you which you do (or if you do both) (21:21:49) Edan: The bonuses are added material that aren't compulsory, but may aid your understanding (21:21:53) Aqua: I mean, if one want to add a option, is that possible? (21:22:06) Aqua: a not mentioned option, to say.. :S (21:22:24) Edan: You write anything extra you want, but the minimum is one of the options given (21:22:38) Edan: *You can (21:22:55) steamboat28: Aqua, you can look through my IP journal if you want. I added a lot of things that weren't in the lesson. No one will argue if you want to do more work, as long as you do what's listed at the minimum. (21:23:04) Edan: Agreed (21:23:17) Edan: Anything extra you do helps knights to see what kind of thing you're interested in as well (21:23:56) Vusuki: And even if you don't do the minimum i think everyone has a good chance of being listened to and interacting with the entire temple. (21:24:17) Edan: Agreed Meditation Spoiler: (21:28:18) Senan: okay I'll go... Lesson 3 - Meditation - is this meant to learn ABOUT meditation or actually encourage us to start practicing it? (21:29:29) Edan: I would say it's an introduction to meditation.. most people probably have never done meditation so it's a way of introducing it without saying something unhelpful like 'go and meditate'. If you get something from it that means you want to go further and do more then great, but at the very least it's to give you an understanding of what it is (21:29:58) steamboat28: I'm sure it's hoped that by learning about meditation, you might discover that it's something you could be interested in. So probably both. (21:30:22) Edan: Yes... and there are many different types of meditation so if you're inspired to go away and do more then great (21:31:05) Alan: There are certain mechanics in learning how to meditate. Then when you have a general idea of those one can then go and try it. (21:31:46) Edan: Guided meditations I think are much easier as well for those who have never tried it before.. gives a good idea of the kind of mind you're getting into when you do meditation (21:32:20) Senan: It just seems kind of daunting to learn about on your own just from reading or listening. It did encourage me to look into it more though. (21:32:52) Edan: If you find that the meditations in the lesson don't suit you then you can always ask in the forum for other suggestions. I think there is even a thread about the types of meditation members do (21:33:02) Gisteron: it's like with pretty much everything else. they do expect you to comment on it, show that you thought a bit about it, but it really makes hardly any difference whether you actually practice what you preach, at least for your progression here it doesn't. (21:33:39) Edan: Not for the IP it doesn't... but it may do in future depending on who your training master turns out to be. Various apprentices have meditation journals. (21:34:17) carlos.martinez3: as I completed my ip I learned new ideas and new view, I thank the ip and the ideas given so in a way the idea may be partly yes learn what is out there text book style but also nothing keeps you from trying as well, (21:34:42) Edan: Definitely (21:35:21) Connor_L.: I am an advocate of trying to find a meditation instructor in your area. Somebody to look at your posture, answer questions, and who can give you instructions and guidance... even if it is once in a blue moon. That will enrich the practice. If you can Skype with your training master (who has had experience and knows how to teach meditation), then that also works. But, sometimes, just finding somebody who is near your physical location is super beneficial. I do understand that isn't an option a lot of the time. (21:36:10) J_Roz: For those of us that use smart phones there is an app called Insight Timer and we do have a TOTJO section. I have found it extremely helpful in using for meditation. There are various ways to use the app and highly recommend joining us on there as well. (21:36:13) Edan: If you're struggling with meditation then definitely... I go to a group run by my Quaker group.. but there are often groups in churches, halls, libraries etc (21:37:08) Senan: Thank you all for the advice (21:37:19) Connor_L.: Edan, I would posit that sometimes we don't even know when we're struggling in meditation. (21:37:35) Connor_L.: Similar to how not everybody knows their weight lifting form for squats is crappy. ;) (21:37:43) Edan: Haha true (21:38:22) Edan: Groups can be good, but also if you go to a group and it doesn't work for you then that doesn't mean all groups don't work. I went to one as a teenager that felt like a brainwashing session but the one I go to now is great (21:39:18) Gisteron: :important: *sigh* unpopular opinion coming up, feel free to ignore... (21:39:32) Chuy: Just to add to the places you can go for meditation. Sometimes Buddahist temples have meditation groups. (21:39:49) Edan: Yes, thank you (21:39:57) Edan: Ok, Gisteron, then we'll have Aqua's question (21:40:00) Aqua: :help: Question to words of Alan, are there meditation methods that are more suited for a certain kind of practice area? How does one knows that the chosen meditation lesson is useful enough? What meditation mechanics are more useful when learning a method? How to build up to a more controlled state of Meditation? Are meditation methods dependent on emotional state? 8o (21:43:35) Gisteron: so meditation is of course more of an art than a science in the first place. it has some benefits and i can imagine a lesson where the master tells the apprentice to set aside like half an hour before work or before sleep or so to meditate for a week and then report on how they felt that improved their day. however, i think that a lesson is as far as it can go. (21:44:37) Gisteron: but i think no master should require "regular meditation" of you or even inquire into how you spend your leisure time outside of apprenticeship lessons. that's just creepy and should be no requirement for knighthood. (21:44:55) Vusuki: If meditation is simply being present- can we not meditate during the entire day paying attention to what's happening both around and inside us? (21:44:55) Edan: That kind of thing would be discussed between the knight and apprentice G (21:45:30) Vusuki: I mean to say that it isn't something that we HAVE to sit down for (21:45:59) Edan: No definitely... you can meditation while walking, while doing the washing up, etc. by being constantly aware of that moment (21:46:05) Edan: *you can meditate (21:46:06) Vusuki: Rather it's something we can do whenever and whatever we're doing (21:46:29) Edan: Yes.. you don't have to be sitting or lying down or listening to gongs or have music etc (21:46:41) Aqua: In zen there is a walking meditation, small example ;) (21:46:48) Alan: Sometimes when I'm ceremonialist, I employ a guided meditation at the start to establish "group mind". I've been part of drumming groups that are synchronized rhythm for another form of group meditation. Chanting is also a good group exercise. Think of attaining a trance state as another form/aspect of meditation. (21:46:50) Edan: Exactly :) (21:47:21) Edan: Yes.. kundalini meditation often has chanting as well (I think) (21:48:10) Aqua: :important: ( small link of that i mentioned ) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinhin (21:48:29) Edan: Thank you Aqua (21:49:12) Alan: Eventually, the meditative state of mind becomes the attitude that infuses all your action (22:07:12) Aqua: (22:40:00) Aqua: :help: Question to words of Alan, are there meditation methods that are more suited for a certain kind of practice area? How does one knows that the chosen meditation lesson is useful enough? What meditation mechanics are more useful when learning a method? How to build up to a more controlled state of Meditation? Are meditation methods dependent on emotional state? 8o (22:09:35) Edan: Did you want to try and answer Aqua's question Alan (22:10:04) Alan: My favorite meditation style is to listen to the various sounds (musical pitches) of the moving water of a forest stream. (22:10:04) Aqua: Mm.. I shall put my questions in a topic, if that would be more suited.. :? (22:11:15) Edan: It's up to you Aqua, you are perfectly welcome to start a discussion thread on meditation if you'd like others' thoughts (I'm afraid I am not wonderful at meditation to give all the answers you may be looking for) (22:11:20) Alan: Meditation 'works' if, when you finish, your mind is 'at ease'. This discussion continued here. Didactics Spoiler: (21:49:13) Vusuki: Oops. What do people understand by didactics? (21:49:35) Vusuki: Cause I've just written something about that and it's not completely easy getting my head around it (21:49:47) Vusuki: It's part of the I.P lesson 7 (21:50:20) Edan: Hang on let me look at what the lesson says Vusuki (21:50:52) Karn: Didactics seems to be a more scientific or analytical approach to teaching as opposed to the more open philosophical approach to learning. (21:51:48) Vusuki: Karn- I thought didactics was more an individual approach to the learner (21:51:57) Vusuki: *for the learner (21:52:21) Alexandre_Orion: Pedagogy : the study of teaching (21:52:59) Alexandre_Orion: Didactic : the method of learning (21:53:18) Alexandre_Orion: there is a didactic to pedagogy (21:53:37) Alexandre_Orion: a good pedagogy favours a good didactic (21:54:42) Alexandre_Orion: but then the learner also has one's own approach to what is being learnt, which is part of the didactic (21:54:43) Edan: I just had a look at what I wrote for didactics... I wrote about what I thought made a good teacher. (21:55:58) Alan: Pedagogy is to strategy as didactics is to tactics. (21:56:28) Vusuki: Explain the difference sorry between strategy to tactics (21:58:04) Edan: Chuy (21:58:52) Alan: Pedagogy is the study of the method of teaching. Didactics is the study of the method of learning. My pedagogy includes a variety of learning styles. (22:00:12) Chuy: The strategist says "lets keep the enemy from getting to our city by blocking them in these canyons." Tactics is setting up a shield wall so that a larger force cannot get past you. Using the example of the 300 Spartans. (22:00:45) Chuy: Idea vs. specific action essentially (22:00:51) Edan: Thank you Chuy Order of lessons Spoiler: (22:02:10) steamboat28: We've gone a little out of my depth in regards to the IP. Is there a chance we could inquire why the lessons are set in the order they are, to get back on topic? (22:04:15) Connor_L.: Since the order is largely customizable to the student (we do not require lessons to be done in order), I'm not positive the intent is for them to be done in any particular order. (22:04:26) Connor_L.: If they were designed to go in an order, we would suggest that. (22:04:33) Edan: I am not sure the answer to that question, but I would say personally that the beginning lessons are the basic foundation to give one the tools to look for more understanding, so that by the time they get to the doctrine they have developed some of the type of thinking required to discuss the doctrine (22:04:35) Connor_L.: But, that is only my limited knowledge. (22:04:39) Edan: But one can do it in any order (22:05:13) Edan: Some people are further ahead than others and may prefer covering 'old ground' first (22:07:34) Alan: Though they can be studied in any order, the final submitted order is according to the numbering. The consistency of the submitted order helps Knights read the Journals. Also, the numbering also assists in discussions by identifying them by their number. An additional discussion on Krishnamurti (not part of the IP) can be found here. The entire discussion sans edits can be found here: Spoiler: (20:51:39) ergone: lol. so question after I finish the initiates program how do I get assigned a teaching master for lack of better words (20:51:42) Gisteron: there's a classy misspelling, right? (20:51:42) JS: Chucky ? (20:52:09) Temple Bot: Senan has joined the chat. (20:52:11) steamboat28: they'll put your name in the Goblet of Jello, and people will arm-wrestle for it. (20:52:19) ergone: oh geeez lmao (20:52:25) JS: Lol !!!!! (20:52:26) Chuy: 4 main elements plus darkness, Ichigo Kurosaki (show Bleach), and Joseph Campbell (more of a opened doors to current beliefs than actual role model) (20:52:27) Edan: Either a knight would approach you ergone.. or you could always approach one of them (20:52:29) ergone: hahahahah (20:52:35) ergone: ah ok (20:52:35) Edan: No Jello :P (20:52:39) Edan: But I do like the stuff... (20:52:47) Kale-Patronus: i have a question (20:52:47) ergone: but I have to complete the ip first (20:52:56) Edan: Yes you do (20:53:03) ergone: like listen to each lesson and write in the journals about it? (20:53:11) Edan: That's right (20:53:17) Temple Bot: carlos.martinez3 has joined the chat. (20:53:27) Edan: Hello Carlos (20:53:28) Gisteron: the lessons tell you what's expected. its not always listening (20:53:35) Gisteron: some ask to research and comment (20:53:44) ergone: im just making sure I understand what I have to do so I can get it done and move up lol (20:53:44) Gisteron: but yea, very school-esque stuff (20:53:52) Edan: G's right... they will give you instructions, but you can always ask if you get stuck (20:53:56) ergone: ok. so whats the best ideaa (20:54:05) ergone: what am I supposed to do witht he journal entries (20:54:18) carlos.martinez3: hello friend! good luck today! (20:54:20) Proteus: reflect what you think about the material (20:54:24) Kale-Patronus: when i do my Knighthood. like when my master knights me. how would that cerimony go with me being in Missouri...... would they come here..... or do it online? how would i apprintice? same way? i just dont know (20:54:26) Proteus: what you understand and how you feel about it (20:54:34) Proteus: maybe what it makes you think about concerning yoruself and your life (20:54:35) ergone: ok so reflect on each leasson. sounds good (20:54:36) Edan: It would be done online Kale (20:54:44) Edan: We have had only two knightings in person (I think) (20:54:49) ergone: i can do that. ") (20:54:50) Gisteron: all in due time, kale. ;) (20:54:51) ergone: :) (20:54:53) Proteus: helps to create a bit of a profile about who you are, for knights to get an idea of you (20:55:02) ergone: ahhhh (20:55:09) ergone: lol ok. (20:55:36) Gisteron: most who join leave before even finishing much of the IP, let alone reaching knighthood :D (20:55:42) Kale-Patronus: that makes me sad.. (20:55:57) ergone: this will be a little difficult. im deployed so i cant always listen to the material, and when i get off work i usually go right to sleep but im gonna squeeze in about an hour, or each section of a lesson (20:56:05) ergone: y (20:56:10) ergone: y do they leave (20:56:20) J._K._Barger: I'll be back for this- I have to run and pick the Sugah-Booga up from skoo. (20:56:22) J._K._Barger: BRB (20:56:22) ergone: i also work 12 hrs so yeah (20:56:24) JS: Quickly off topic here I must say I like the reflection of February quite a lot (20:56:30) Gisteron: probably disillusioned. expected something different. idk. (20:56:32) Edan: There's no time limit ergone, just do it when you can (20:56:39) Proteus: take your time. let it come as it can naturally upon opportunity and inspiration (20:56:39) ergone: oh ok cool (20:56:42) ergone: :) (20:56:49) Senan: The IP is actual work and some aren't ready to put in the time. (20:57:04) Senan: There is no rush though (20:57:07) steamboat28: Senan, I might personally argue the former section of that point. (20:57:11) steamboat28: Though it is time-consuming. (20:57:13) carlos.martinez3: there are many reasons (20:57:13) ergone: oh i can do work. lol (20:57:16) Edan: When I joined I let my big ego get in the way... had to come back a few months later and try again.. (20:57:18) Gisteron: there's not even much of a quality standard at that, ergone. if what you end up with is cut into yet more bits, made all the less cohesive for it, and they see that you have put thought into it anyway, that's good enough for most :D (20:57:21) Temple Bot: Loudzoo has joined the chat. (20:57:28) Senan: It took me over two years to get it done around work and family (20:57:51) ergone: cool (20:57:59) Gisteron: it took me under two weeks, Senan. :P (20:58:04) Sotunus: I must away for night training. Good luck with the IP discussion all, and hope it proves enlightening. (20:58:07) ergone: cause i have a hard time putting my thoughts on paper or in words sometimes (20:58:07) carlos.martinez3: I did my ip while waiting tables and managins two resturaunts lol (20:58:18) Loudzoo: Hello Everyone:) (20:58:24) carlos.martinez3: hi (20:58:30) Chuy: Hello Loudzoo (20:58:32) ergone: hiiiiii (20:58:32) Temple Bot: Sotunus has left the chat. (20:58:36) Edan: Hi Loudzoo (20:58:36) Temple Bot: Avalonslight has joined the chat. (20:58:43) carlos.martinez3: ava! (20:58:47) Chuy: Hello Avalon (20:58:50) Edan: Couple of minutes and we'll start properly... there are a lot of us so gonna instigate a system (20:58:50) Proteus: Good to see you Loudzoo :) (20:58:51) Senan: I over think everything so i tended to rewrite stuff a lot (20:58:51) Loudzoo: Hi Carlos, Hi Chuy :) (20:58:57) Loudzoo: Hi Edan:) (20:59:02) Gisteron: wow, this is way too many people to keep up with if you are doing anything other than this.. (20:59:02) JS: Damn I'll have to go. Hope you guys enjoy the discussion and goog luck Edan :) (20:59:06) Kale-Patronus: i have decided im getting a Padawan Braid when a knight chooses me (20:59:16) JS: May the Force be with you all :) (20:59:21) Gisteron: you do you, KP ;) (20:59:23) Senan: you too JS (20:59:23) Edan: And with you too JS (20:59:24) carlos.martinez3: nice my hairs not long enough for it lol (20:59:25) ergone: senan i love you sermon lol (20:59:42) Senan: thanks ergone (20:59:45) Kale-Patronus: may the forse be with you js (20:59:49) carlos.martinez3: is it time? (20:59:49) Avalonslight just wants to watch (20:59:56) JS: Bye guys have a great day (21:00:00) Kale-Patronus: ava (21:00:02) Kale-Patronus: !!! (21:00:07) Temple Bot: JS has left the chat. (21:00:07) Gisteron pounces ava anyway (21:00:09) Aqua: Oo more people, lol Hello all people who came wile I covered the chat window :D (21:00:20) Edan: Hello Aqua (21:00:26) Aqua: :) (21:00:28) Dechlain joins Ava in the fort where he can lurk undetected. He did bring banana popsicles for everyone, though. (21:00:31) carlos.martinez3: hi aqua' (21:00:33) Edan: I promise I will get to your questions about the Heritage tree :) (21:00:51) Aqua: Thank you, Oo you spotted that one quick :D (21:00:53) Kale-Patronus: but yeah i just figured why not? ive started letting my hair grow out so i can cut it when i get a master. im really exited for it (21:00:57) ergone: no problem funny thing wolves r my favorite animal. (21:01:04) Temple Bot: J_Roz has joined the chat. (21:01:14) Edan: Hello Roz (21:01:20) ergone: lol now can u have in person teachers or is that all online as well (21:01:23) J_Roz: Hello (21:01:29) Chuy: Hello Roz (21:01:39) Aqua: Hello mr J :) (21:01:47) Avalonslight: Yay Dec!!! (21:01:51) Edan: If you could find a knight near you willing to take you on then it could be in person, but it is likely to be online (21:02:04) Avalonslight flails at Gist's pounce (21:02:07) Avalonslight: Hi to you too (21:02:08) steamboat28: @Edan, I believe I remember once the statement that even if you do it in person, the work must be turned in online. (21:02:10) Edan: OK.. shall we do this then? (21:02:13) ergone: ok. idt theres anyone who is in nd (21:02:14) ergone: lol (21:02:21) Edan: Yes it must be... it must be evidenced (21:02:28) Kale-Patronus: Ergone i think its online. but when i become a knight imma find someone in my own state. that way its in oerson. (21:02:28) Gisteron: yes, let's. what are the rules? (21:02:30) Edan: Even if it was turned in all at the end having been done in person (21:02:38) Temple Bot: Proteus has been logged out (Timeout). (21:02:40) Temple Bot: Proteus has joined the chat. (21:02:46) ergone: that would be awesome (21:02:59) ergone: idk how long ill be here. (21:03:04) ergone: i have to go on the road here soon (21:03:26) Edan: Ok... if you have a question please use the :help: emoticon. If you have a comment that is related to what I'm talking about, please use the :important: and I will call on the :important: and :help: so that we don't end up with everyone talking at once (21:03:39) ergone: ok (21:03:44) Temple Bot: Vusuki has joined the chat. (21:03:50) Edan: Knights can comment without the emoticons if they're helping to answer a question (21:04:00) Temple Bot: V-Tog has joined the chat. (21:04:01) Edan: Everyone understand? (21:04:01) Alexandre_Orion: Hi, Joshy :D (21:04:02) Gisteron: what about commenting on each other/on the questions others pose? (21:04:11) Aqua: Hello V! (21:04:14) steamboat28: Yes. (21:04:15) Aqua: Hello Vuski ;) (21:04:21) Edan: Please use the :important: and I will call on you (21:04:28) Vusuki: (hello everyone) (21:04:28) Gisteron: gotcha (21:04:34) Edan: We'll try it and see how it goes (21:04:38) Edan: Hello Vusuki (21:04:46) ergone: kk (21:04:49) V-Tog: Hello :) Sorry to interrupt...I'll just go sit quietly at the back... 8o (21:04:50) Kale-Patronus: :help: (21:04:59) Edan: Go on Kale (21:05:50) Edan: Did you have a question? (21:06:21) Temple Bot: Connor_L. has joined the chat. (21:06:58) Edan: Anyone else have a question? (21:07:09) ergone: (21:07:16) ergone: sorry wrong buton (21:07:16) Temple Bot: Loudzoo has been logged out (Timeout). (21:07:17) Temple Bot: Alan has joined the chat. (21:07:35) Kale-Patronus: i was reading some jedi stuff online. and there was thisarticle about a guy getting kicked out mcdonalds for refusing to tyake off his hood....is that real? whats with the hood?? (21:07:38) Temple Bot: Loudzoo has joined the chat. (21:07:38) Temple Bot: Loudzoo has been logged out (Timeout). (21:07:39) Temple Bot: Loudzoo has joined the chat. (21:08:27) Edan: He is a member of the Jedi Church (I think, knights correct me?). I think his reasoning was that it's 'part of his religion'.. but I'm not sure for what reason exactly (21:08:46) steamboat28: :important: (even though i ain't a knight) (21:08:47) Edan: We don't have any rules over clothing here so I doubt anyone from TOTJO would have that issue (21:08:48) Connor_L.: Church of Jediism (21:08:54) Connor_L.: Different group (21:08:56) Edan: That's it.. I was close (21:09:05) Temple Bot: J._K._Barger has been logged out (Timeout). (21:09:11) ergone: :help: (21:09:13) Edan: Go ahead Steam (21:10:03) Kale-Patronus: :help: why is aginst his religion though. what does the hood signify? (21:10:08) steamboat28: The individual in question was a member of a UK-based Jedi group unaffiliated with TOTJO in any manner. He was utilizing an excuse (as I've not seen the hood mentioned anywhere in their standard doctrine prior to the event in question) to get around security measures that requested he remove headwear for identification and security purposes. (21:10:31) Edan: Yes... that's it. Someone from the same group did it in my town at a Jobcentre too.. (21:10:45) Edan: Kale, I am not sure what it signified I'm afraid (21:10:55) Edan: What's your question ergone? (21:11:27) ergone: ok so there is a church and the temple here. we r the same right or is there a difference? and we both believe in the samething correct? (21:11:49) ergone: once ur a member of the temple ur a member of the church correct (21:11:53) Gisteron: :important: (21:11:59) Edan: Go ahead G (21:12:06) Temple Bot: Alan has left the channel. (21:12:26) Temple Bot: Alan has entered the channel. (21:12:27) Edan: The Temple of the Jedi ORder is a church, so membership to the Order is effectively membership of the church (21:12:41) Gisteron: no. there is not "a church". there are a couple of places that call themselves churches of jediism, and totjo happens to be registered as one in the state of Texas. (21:12:55) Edan: Not a church as in a physical building (21:12:55) steamboat28: :important: (21:13:04) Lykeios: different organizations unless I'm mistaken (21:13:04) Temple Bot: Ke_JinnDakken has joined the chat. (21:13:10) Edan: The Church of Jediism is a bit different to us though... I do not think we believe exactly the same (21:13:16) Edan: And we are not the same organisation (21:13:20) Edan: Go ahead Steam (21:13:24) ergone: :help: (21:13:31) Temple Bot: J._K._Barger has joined the chat. (21:13:49) Gisteron: :important: as for what they believe, that's an individual matter. some do have a doctrine, some don't, and among those that do, not always do all members share all that is included. (21:14:02) Temple Bot: Phortis_Nespin has joined the chat. (21:14:05) steamboat28: The Temple of the Jedi Order (TOTJO, where you are now) is a unique entity, separate from all other Jedi and Jediist organizations. The Church of Jediism and many other organizations, take their names and teachings from the same source, but we all evolved separately and differently. (21:14:07) Edan: Gisteron is right... there are some differences between what individual members believe (21:14:24) Temple Bot: Lightstrider has been logged out (Timeout). (21:14:37) Edan: For the people who have just joined us, if you have a question please use the :help: and if you have a comment related to what we are talking about, please use the :important:, and I will call on you (21:14:46) Senan: :help: (21:14:49) Edan: What's your question ergone (21:15:36) Edan: To add, membership of TOTJO's site isn't membership of the Temple itself, that requires the membership application (21:15:53) Kale-Patronus: :help: (21:15:58) ergone: ok. this is one of the big churches and there a several little or separate ones. kind of like catholics have different beloiefs in there own religion. but if u r part of the temple everyone else recognizes ura jedi correct (21:16:22) ergone: and how do u send in an application to the temple itself (21:16:41) Edan: For the application, on the main site go to 'My TOTJO' then 'Jedi Application' (21:16:49) Temple Bot: Lykeios has been logged out (Timeout). (21:17:15) Connor_L.: I would like to clarify something for ergone (21:17:19) Edan: And we are one of the more active (and probably bigger) groups. But if you said you were a member of TOTJO at another site they would generally understand what you believe (though there are belief differences between groups) (21:17:23) Edan: Go ahead Connor (21:17:33) Connor_L.: Never mind, you did it Edan. Thank you. (21:17:46) ergone: :important:i have to go on the road. can someone email me the details ont he actual temple application to me? that's something i really want to to know about thanks everyone. have a good day. (21:17:47) Edan: Ok, Senan what's your question (21:17:51) Senan: In Lesson 4 of the IP, we can choose to read Mindwalk or The Field? One over the other? Should we be doing both? (21:18:03) Edan: I'll send you a PM ergone (21:18:12) Edan: We only require you to do one Senan (21:18:19) ergone: thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bye everyone good talking to u all (21:18:19) Edan: Neither is preferred, it's your choice (21:18:30) carlos.martinez3: :important: (21:18:36) Edan: Go ahead Carlos (21:18:50) steamboat28: :important: (21:18:52) carlos.martinez3: if you learn from one lesson imagine how much you will with both... (21:19:13) Edan: You can do both... but it's not required (21:19:16) Edan: Steam (21:19:44) steamboat28: I would highly suggest doing all the optional lessons, and both lessons anytime you're presented with a choice. they really round out the program. (21:19:55) steamboat28: Even if you don't do it right now, come back and do them after you finish the IP. (21:19:59) Senan: Mindwalk was added after I passed that lesson. I'll go back to it. (21:20:05) Aqua: :important: (21:20:08) Edan: Yes... the bonuses are good but few do them usually (21:20:13) Edan: Yes Aqua (21:20:21) Temple Bot: ergone has been logged out (Timeout). (21:20:24) Temple Bot: Phortis_Nespin has been logged out (Timeout). (21:20:46) Aqua: I wanted to comment on Steam, every lesson can be written out depending on what you want to write? The lesson options are only a suggestion? (21:21:29) Edan: The options within a lesson both comment on the same topic, but it's up to you which you do (or if you do both) (21:21:49) Edan: The bonuses are added material that aren't compulsory, but may aid your understanding (21:21:53) Aqua: I mean, if one want to add a option, is that possible? (21:22:06) Aqua: a not mentioned option, to say.. :S (21:22:15) steamboat28: :important: (21:22:24) Edan: You write anything extra you want, but the minimum is one of the options given (21:22:25) Edan: Steam (21:22:38) Edan: *You can (21:22:55) steamboat28: Aqua, you can look through my IP journal if you want. I added a lot of things that weren't in the lesson. No one will argue if you want to do more work, as long as you do what's listed at the minimum. (21:23:04) Edan: Agreed (21:23:12) Vusuki: :important: (21:23:17) Edan: Anything extra you do helps knights to see what kind of thing you're interested in as well (21:23:19) Edan: Vusuki (21:23:56) Vusuki: And even if you don't do the minimum i think everyone has a good chance of being listened to and interacting with the entire temple. (21:24:12) Temple Bot: Jestor has joined the chat. (21:24:17) Edan: Agreed (21:24:25) Edan: Ok Kale has been waiting very patiently for his question (21:25:05) Temple Bot: Jax_Elk has joined the chat. (21:25:12) Edan: Did you still have a question Kale? (21:25:24) Temple Bot: Rosalyn_J has joined the chat. (21:25:51) Jax_Elk: There are so many people (21:25:55) Edan: For new chat members, if you have a question please use :help:, if you have a comment related to the discussion please use :important: and I'll call on you (21:26:28) Edan: Does anyone else have a question? (21:26:47) Jestor: Everyone waiting, lol... (21:27:34) Senan: :help: (21:27:41) Edan: Go ahead Senan (21:28:18) Senan: okay I'll go... Lesson 3 - Meditation - is this meant to learn ABOUT meditation or actually encourage us to start practicing it? (21:29:17) steamboat28: :important: (21:29:29) Edan: I would say it's an introduction to meditation.. most people probably have never done meditation so it's a way of introducing it without saying something unhelpful like 'go and meditate'. If you get something from it that means you want to go further and do more then great, but at the very least it's to give you an understanding of what it is (21:29:31) Edan: Steam (21:29:58) steamboat28: I'm sure it's hoped that by learning about meditation, you might discover that it's something you could be interested in. So probably both. (21:30:16) Alan: :important: (21:30:22) Edan: Yes... and there are many different types of meditation so if you're inspired to go away and do more then great (21:30:23) Edan: Alan (21:30:35) Gisteron: :important: (21:31:05) Alan: There are certain mechanics in learning how to meditate. Then when you have a general idea of those one can then go and try it. (21:31:25) Chuy: 0 (21:31:46) Edan: Guided meditations I think are much easier as well for those who have never tried it before.. gives a good idea of the kind of mind you're getting into when you do meditation (21:31:49) Chuy: ...sorry, accidental press (21:31:55) Edan: Gisteron (21:32:07) Aqua: :help: (21:32:20) Senan: It just seems kind of daunting to learn about on your own just from reading or listening. It did encourage me to look into it more though. (21:32:32) carlos.martinez3: :important: (21:32:52) Edan: If you find that the meditations in the lesson don't suit you then you can always ask in the forum for other suggestions. I think there is even a thread about the types of meditation members do (21:33:02) Gisteron: it's like with pretty much everything else. they do expect you to comment on it, show that you thought a bit about it, but it really makes hardly any difference whether you actually practice what you preach, at least for your progression here it doesn't. (21:33:04) Edan: Carlos (21:33:39) Edan: Not for the IP it doesn't... but it may do in future depending on who your training master turns out to be. Various apprentices have meditation journals. (21:33:59) J_Roz: :important: (21:34:17) carlos.martinez3: as I completed my ip I learned new ideas and new view, I thank the ip and the ideas given so in a way the idea may be partly yes learn what is out there text book style but also nothing keeps you from trying as well, (21:34:42) Edan: Definitely (21:34:43) Edan: Roz (21:35:21) Connor_L.: I am an advocate of trying to find a meditation instructor in your area. Somebody to look at your posture, answer questions, and who can give you instructions and guidance... even if it is once in a blue moon. That will enrich the practice. If you can Skype with your training master (who has had experience and knows how to teach meditation), then that also works. But, sometimes, just finding somebody who is near your physical location is super beneficial. I do understand that isn't an option a lot of the time. (21:36:08) Jestor: :important: (21:36:10) J_Roz: For those of us that use smart phones there is an app called Insight Timer and we do have a TOTJO section. I have found it extremely helpful in using for meditation. There are various ways to use the app and highly recommend joining us on there as well. (21:36:13) J._K._Barger: :important: In response to Connor (21:36:13) Edan: If you're struggling with meditation then definitely... I go to a group run by my Quaker group.. but there are often groups in churches, halls, libraries etc (21:36:26) Edan: Yes... thanks Roz (21:36:32) Edan: Jestor (21:36:35) Jestor: never mind... (21:36:50) Edan: Roz beat you to it :P (21:36:52) Edan: JK (21:36:56) Jestor: lol (21:37:08) Senan: Thank you all for the advice (21:37:19) Connor_L.: Edan, I would posit that sometimes we don't even know when we're struggling in meditation. (21:37:35) Connor_L.: Similar to how not everybody knows their weight lifting form for squats is crappy. ;) (21:37:39) Chuy: :important: (21:37:43) Edan: Haha true (21:38:16) J._K._Barger: NVM (21:38:22) Edan: Groups can be good, but also if you go to a group and it doesn't work for you then that doesn't mean all groups don't work. I went to one as a teenager that felt like a brainwashing session but the one I go to now is great (21:38:23) Edan: Chuy (21:38:42) Temple Bot: carlos.martinez3 has been logged out (Timeout). (21:38:46) steamboat28: :help: (21:39:18) Gisteron: :important: *sigh* unpopular opinion coming up, feel free to ignore... (21:39:32) Chuy: Just to add to the places you can go for meditation. Sometimes Buddahist temples have meditation groups. (21:39:45) Temple Bot: Rosalyn_J has been logged out (Timeout). (21:39:49) Edan: Yes, thank you (21:39:57) Edan: Ok, Gisteron, then we'll have Aqua's question (21:40:00) Aqua: :help: Question to words of Alan, are there meditation methods that are more suited for a certain kind of practice area? How does one knows that the chosen meditation lesson is useful enough? What meditation mechanics are more useful when learning a method? How to build up to a more controlled state of Meditation? Are meditation methods dependent on emotional state? 8o (21:40:06) Gisteron: gee thanks :D (21:41:37) Edan: Go ahead G, then we'll have responses to Aqua's question (21:43:27) Edan: Ok.. I think we lost Gisteron.. (21:43:35) Gisteron: so meditation is of course more of an art than a science in the first place. it has some benefits and i can imagine a lesson where the master tells the apprentice to set aside like half an hour before work or before sleep or so to meditate for a week and then report on how they felt that improved their day. however, i think that a lesson is as far as it can go. (21:43:41) Edan: Ok maybe not (21:44:11) Vusuki: :important: (21:44:16) Edan: Vusuki (21:44:37) Gisteron: but i think no master should require "regular meditation" of you or even inquire into how you spend your leisure time outside of apprenticeship lessons. that's just creepy and should be no requirement for knighthood. (21:44:55) Vusuki: If meditation is simply being present- can we not meditate during the entire day paying attention to what's happening both around and inside us? (21:44:55) Edan: That kind of thing would be discussed between the knight and apprentice G (21:45:30) Vusuki: I mean to say that it isn't something that we HAVE to sit down for (21:45:59) Edan: No definitely... you can meditation while walking, while doing the washing up, etc. by being constantly aware of that moment (21:46:05) Edan: *you can meditate (21:46:06) Vusuki: Rather it's something we can do whenever and whatever we're doing (21:46:22) Aqua: :important: (21:46:29) Temple Bot: Brick has joined the chat. (21:46:29) Edan: Yes.. you don't have to be sitting or lying down or listening to gongs or have music etc (21:46:31) Edan: Aqua (21:46:41) Aqua: In zen there is a walking meditation, small example ;) (21:46:48) Alan: Sometimes when I'm ceremonialist, I employ a guided meditation at the start to establish "group mind". I've been part of drumming groups that are synchronized rhythm for another form of group meditation. Chanting is also a good group exercise. Think of attaining a trance state as another form/aspect of meditation. (21:46:50) Edan: Exactly :) (21:47:21) Edan: Yes.. kundalini meditation often has chanting as well (I think) (21:47:28) Edan: Ok Steamboat had a question way back (21:47:51) Temple Bot: Jestor has been logged out (Timeout). (21:47:51) steamboat28: Actually, Edan, I posed that so I could yield the floor to Aqua's question, because Aqua was being very patient. lol (21:48:01) Edan: Ah ok :) (21:48:10) Aqua: :important: ( small link of that i mentioned ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinhin (21:48:29) Edan: Thank you Aqua (21:48:35) Aqua: :) (21:48:51) Vusuki: :help: (21:48:54) Edan: Vusuki (21:49:10) Temple Bot: Rider_Black has joined the chat. (21:49:12) Alan: Eventually, the meditative state of mind becomes the attitude that infuses all your actions. (21:49:13) Vusuki: Oops. What do people understand by didactics? (21:49:35) Vusuki: Cause I've just written something about that and it's not completely easy getting my head around it (21:49:47) Vusuki: It's part of the I.P lesson 7 (21:49:58) Alexandre_Orion: :) (21:50:20) Edan: Hang on let me look at what the lesson says Vusuki (21:50:31) Karn: :important: (21:50:36) Edan: Go ahead Karn (21:50:52) Karn: Didactics seems to be a more scientific or analytical approach to teaching as opposed to the more open philosophical approach to learning. (21:51:46) Edan: Vusuki (21:51:48) Vusuki: Karn- I thought didactics was more an individual approach to the learner (21:51:57) Vusuki: *for the learner (21:52:21) Alexandre_Orion: Pedagogy : the study of teaching (21:52:25) Temple Bot: Rider_Black has been logged out (Timeout). (21:52:59) Alexandre_Orion: Didactic : the method of learning (21:53:18) Alexandre_Orion: there is a didactic to pedagogy (21:53:37) Alexandre_Orion: a good pedagogy favours a good didactic (21:54:42) Alexandre_Orion: but then the learner also has one's own approach to what is being learnt, which is part of the didactic (21:54:43) Edan: I just had a look at what I wrote for didactics... I wrote about what I thought made a good teacher. (21:55:49) Alan: :important: (21:55:55) Edan: Alan (21:55:58) Alan: Pedagogy is to strategy as didactics is to tactics. (21:56:28) Vusuki: Explain the difference sorry between strategy to tactics (21:57:08) J_Roz: :help: (21:57:23) Chuy: :important: (21:58:04) Edan: Chuy (21:58:52) Alan: Pedagogy is the study of the method of teaching. Didactics is the study of the method of learning. My pedagogy includes a variety of learning styles. (21:59:02) steamboat28: :help: (21:59:28) Edan: We'll have Chuy's comment, then Roz's question (22:00:12) Chuy: The strategist says "lets keep the enemy from getting to our city by blocking them in these canyons." Tactics is setting up a shield wall so that a larger force cannot get past you. Using the example of the 300 Spartans. (22:00:45) Chuy: Idea vs. specific action essentially (22:00:51) Edan: Thank you Chuy (22:01:02) Edan: Roz (22:01:04) J_Roz: Not a question; I have to head out but I wanted to say quickly that is great to see everyone (Look at all the Knights!! WOW!) and love seeing discussions/questions. Great job everyone! This has been a wonderful and awesome discussion. Looking forward to many more in the future! (22:01:17) Edan: :) (22:01:23) J_Roz: :favorite: (22:01:31) Edan: Steam you're up (22:01:46) Temple Bot: J_Roz has left the chat. (22:02:10) steamboat28: We've gone a little out of my depth in regards to the IP. Is there a chance we could inquire why the lessons are set in the order they are, to get back on topic? (22:03:04) Temple Bot: peace has joined the chat. (22:03:19) Temple Bot: peace has left the chat. (22:03:56) Kale-Patronus: i finnished my homework for today yay (22:04:15) Connor_L.: Since the order is largely customizable to the student (we do not require lessons to be done in order), I'm not positive the intent is for them to be done in any particular order. (22:04:26) Connor_L.: If they were designed to go in an order, we would suggest that. (22:04:33) Edan: I am not sure the answer to that question, but I would say personally that the beginning lessons are the basic foundation to give one the tools to look for more understanding, so that by the time they get to the doctrine they have developed some of the type of thinking required to discuss the doctrine (22:04:35) Connor_L.: But, that is only my limited knowledge. (22:04:39) Edan: But one can do it in any order (22:05:13) Edan: Some people are further ahead than others and may prefer covering 'old ground' first (22:06:39) Edan: Any more questions or thoughts or shall we round this session off? (22:07:05) Aqua: :help: (22:07:12) Aqua: (22:40:00) Aqua: :help: Question to words of Alan, are there meditation methods that are more suited for a certain kind of practice area? How does one knows that the chosen meditation lesson is useful enough? What meditation mechanics are more useful when learning a method? How to build up to a more controlled state of Meditation? Are meditation methods dependent on emotional state? 8o (22:07:16) Edan: Go ahead Aqua (22:07:34) Alan: Though they can be studied in any order, the final submitted order is according to the numbering. The consistency of the submitted order helps Knights read the Journals. Also, the numbering also assists in discussions by identifying them by their number. (22:09:15) Temple Bot: Kale-Patronus has been logged out (Timeout). (22:09:25) Vusuki: :help: (22:09:35) Edan: Did you want to try and answer Aqua's question Alan (22:10:04) Alan: My favorite meditation style is to listen to the various sounds (musical pitches) of the moving water of a forest stream. (22:10:04) Aqua: Mm.. I shall put my questions in a topic, if that would be more suited.. :? (22:11:15) Edan: It's up to you Aqua, you are perfectly welcome to start a discussion thread on meditation if you'd like others' thoughts (I'm afraid I am not wonderful at meditation to give all the answers you may be looking for) (22:11:20) Alan: Meditation 'works' if, when you finish, your mind is 'at ease'. (22:11:51) Aqua: Thank you, Edan. I shall open a topic about it. :? (22:11:59) Edan: Ok Vusuki (22:12:47) Vusuki: Who else had trouble facing the idea (of Krishnamurti) that we are all responsible not only for ourselves but the entire society of which we are a part of? (22:12:57) Temple Bot: Awesome has joined the chat. (22:13:09) Vusuki: I haven't finished the book- freedom from the known but I found that deeply unsettling (22:13:30) Temple Bot: Ryder has joined the chat. (22:13:33) Temple Bot: Chuy has been logged out (Timeout). (22:13:51) Connor_L.: I love that book. (22:14:00) Gisteron: i have no trouble facing that idea, vusuki, i just find it preposterous, personally. but seeing how he asserts it on no grounds, i need no grounds to dismiss it either. (22:14:03) Connor_L.: I absolutely hated it the first time around. I forced myself to get through it. (22:14:09) Temple Bot: Jax_Elk has been logged out (Timeout). (22:14:12) Connor_L.: Now, I want to read it all the time! (22:14:14) Ryder: Hey everyone! I'm very excited right now. (22:14:18) Aqua: :help::important: topic made under the following link : https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Confused-Ask-for-help/113871-edan-s-question-round-unanswered-questions-of-aqua#226635 (22:14:30) Edan: I haven't read that book... we are responsible for what we do within society.. though I am not sure we are all responsible for what society is.. if that makes sense.. (22:14:55) Edan is not sure if that makes sense to her eithe (22:15:11) Connor_L.: We are responsible for our contribution. (22:15:25) Edan: Exactly...must better put (22:15:27) Connor_L.: So, how we react, and what we do in response to society directly shapes it. (22:15:38) Temple Bot: Awesome has been logged out (Timeout). (22:16:11) Ryder: I don't like social order at all. (22:16:35) Temple Bot: Avalonslight has been logged out (Timeout). (22:16:37) Temple Bot: Avalonslight has joined the chat. (22:16:45) Temple Bot: Proteus has been logged out (Timeout). (22:16:54) Alan: :important: (22:16:57) Connor_L.: That is a heavy topic, Ryder. Maybe not suited for a Q/A like this. (22:17:05) Ryder: Alright. (22:17:09) Edan: Alan (22:17:16) Connor_L.: Make a topic, please! If you want to discuss it. (22:17:17) Alan: I like this idea better in Jean-Paul Sartre's essay, "Existentialism is Humanism". When you choose you choose for every person. Because if you value it enough to choose it then it is a value you would want for everyone. (22:17:44) Connor_L.: :favorite: (22:18:15) Vusuki: Is that also the idea of the precepts of the Categorical Imperative? (22:18:37) Vusuki: Act in such a way that your maxim could be a universal law? (22:19:21) Vusuki: (and never treat a person as a means to an end but always as an end and means in itself) (22:19:37) Vusuki: (and act in accordance with a law you give yourself) (22:19:49) Alan: Similar. But for the Categorical Imperative, the reason is not my freedom as in Sartre but because everyone shares the same divinely given human reason. (22:20:25) Vusuki: Thankyou (22:20:37) V-Tog: (I have to go to bed guys, sorry...it's been fun observing! Good night, everyone! :) ) (22:21:20) Gisteron: sounds like an arbitrary distinction to me... i may choose a thing knowing full well it's not a choice everybody would or should make. likewise i can refuse a choice with no rimorse knowing that generally speaking it would've been a better way to go. (22:21:20) Edan: Any final questions before we end this sessions? (22:21:55) Alexandre_Orion: Would anyone object to us posting the transcript of this in the forum thread ? (22:22:06) Edan: I was going to anyway Alex (22:22:10) Temple Bot: V-Tog has left the chat. (22:22:14) Alexandre_Orion: :D (22:22:18) Edan: With some extraneous stuff removed (like entrances and exists) (22:22:21) Edan: *exits (22:22:32) Connor_L.: I would not object! Thank you all for this illuminating discussion. I am going to head to Aqua's thread. Bye! (22:22:52) Alexandre_Orion: I'm not sure if the ! and ? emotji will copy/paste well :? (22:23:06) Gisteron: likewise, i wouldn't want the maxim to evaluate maxims by the categorical imperative to be a universal law, therefore following that imperative i would have to reject that imperative making the construct, at least superficially, self-defeating. (22:23:08) Edan: I will sort it out Alex :) (22:23:31) Edan: Perhaps this topic would be better dealt with in its own thread, as it is not directly related to the IP (22:23:50) Edan: I will post the relevant points to a thread and then discussion can continue there :) (22:24:00) Alexandre_Orion: ;) (22:24:16) Temple Bot: Connor_L. has been logged out (Timeout). (22:24:17) Edan: Ok... so this ends our IP discussion :) May the Force be with you all
    • Edan`s question round: Unanswered questions of Aqu... (Last post by Connor L.)
    • Are there meditation methods that are more suited for a certain kind of practice area? What do you mean by practice area? How does one knows that the chosen meditation lesson is useful enough? You should consult a meditation teacher. Never go off what you hear on an internet forum. Find people who are skilled and experienced in teaching meditation, and they can guide you. If this is impossible, then observe yourself. Is anything changing within you? What is your goal? Are you moving toward it? What meditation mechanics are more useful when learning a method? What do you mean by "mechanics" and "method"? How to build up to a more controlled state of Meditation? Very easily. Just keep doing it. Every day. Longer and more of it. Sit multiple times a day if possible. The longer you are in meditation, the more you will incorporate it. You will see the benefits even with just a moment of meditation, though. With time and practice, the benefits increase exponentially. Are meditation methods dependent on emotional state? Some may be. But, mine, no. In fact, I am encouraged to sit with my emotions in meditation. Observe but do not engage them. We bring with us whatever we experience to the cushion!
    • In Praise of Selectivity: Syncretic Jediism (Last post by Alan)
    • Adder, as always, a thoughtful and interesting post. I agree, the vajra (stylized thunderbolt) is a secondary symbol and is rich in meaning. For me the vajra is a symbol of the Eightfold Path. “The upper sets of spokes of a five spoked vajra symbolize the five wisdoms, which are: 1. The mirror-like wisdom that which reflects all sense perceptions is purified when one attains enlightenment and becomes the mirror-like wisdom. 2. The wisdom of equality that arises after all the feelings of pleasantness, unpleasantness and indifference have been purified. 3. The wisdom of individual analysis that arises when the factor of discrimination, which distinguishes one object from another is purified. It enables one to benefit each sentient being according to his or her needs and disposition. 4. The wisdom of accomplishing activity that arises when the basic ability to perform acts according to particular circumstances is purified. 5. The wisdom of the sphere of reality that arises when consciousness is purified and becomes the mind that is the seed of the wisdom truth body of a Buddha.” Source: buddhanet.net (edited by Alan) These five traditional interpretations of the vajra as secondary symbol provide the means to determine one primary symbol in Buddhism: purity. The source of the need for purity is related to other Buddhist symbols, for example, the lotus flower that emerges from the dark and muddy bottom of the lake to rise to the surface as a beautiful white flower. Unlike the monotheisms mentioned above, in Buddhism there is no fall from perfection or exile from paradise as the result of primordial disobedience of the original human couple, but rather, impurity is the result of desire, which is a related primary symbol. Wisdom and purity, desire and illusion are interrelated primary symbols. And these can be distilled further in the concept of anatman (no self) as well as related Buddhist cosmological symbols. Splitting hairs: the primary symbol of balance you mentioned seems to me more appropriate to Daoism than Buddhism, but I don’t know that for sure. The Force is (as a symbol found in the narrative mythology of Lucas fictional universe) presented dramatically as a kind of magnetic (gravitational, molecular, etc.) power that the initiate or adept can access. Its secondary symbolism is that the force is a kind of substance, a real thing, an actual power that exists and permeates the universe and is found infused throughout all things. As a primary symbol it represents the interrelatedness/interconnectedness of everything in the cosmos. The primary symbol of the oneness of reality is symbolized as a kind of accessible and manipulatable power. Knowing what it is is wisdom. Only the wise can wield it beneficently and this returns us full circle to mythic Jedi who embody the ethical lessons of knowing and using the Force.
    • Discussion Groups in Chat? (Last post by Goken)
    • Quote: It is... but that is for specifically IP related material. Ah. I see the difference now. I think it would be a lot of fun to have a big group discussion in chat about a specific topic. I'd join, so long as some where held when I wasn't at work. (like I am right now. ;) :whistle: )
    • Making of a Jedi Warrior (Last post by OB1Shinobi)
    • it says "taekwondo" but these are a fast and effective exercises to make your side kick better regardless of what system it is
    • Pacifism. (Last post by Rickie)
    • I've always feel calm in a storm when I am prepared for it. :)
    • Light and Dark (Last post by Rickie)
    • Are my feet evil and my head good? Is the front of me light and the back of me dark. It's just all me! :woohoo: :silly: :lol: :laugh:

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