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    • "...we are all responsible not only for ourse... (Last post by Lightstrider)
    • Quote: That phrase seems paradoxical, a little like saying "I'M not the one saying this is black and white. It's THEM who are doing bad black things!" By saying I in the first part of the sentence and they in the next, I think you may have unintentionally created an us vs them conflict. ..... I hope I make sense, :/ Yes in a way you're right but at the same time I'm talking about the people who write about their desires to control the masses, poison us, use us as cannon fodder, decide one group of people or an entire deveoping country is a threat to national security, how nobody should be born without a job serving their state. The big business/political interests, technocrats and modern day Edward Bernays types. Books that talk about annihilation of self preservation through scientific techniques from inoculations to modifying the food and water. Spoiler: Edward Louis Bernays was the nephew of Sigmund Freud and one of the fathers of modern advertising (known in the beginning of the 20th century as simply 'propaganda'). His methods involved the psychoanalytical theories of his uncle - exploiting the subconscious and playing on unconscious desires - not just for marketing purposes, but also for shaping public opinion. He was an advisor to several United States Presidents, including Woodrow Wilson and Calvin Coolidge. From Bernay's Propaganda 1928 Quote: "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized." p9 Quote: "There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes. Nor, what is still more important, the extent to which our thoughts and habits are modified by authorities. In some departments of our daily life, in which we imagine ourselves free agents, we are ruled by dictators exercising great power. A man buying a suit of clothes imagines that he is choosing, according to his taste and his personality, the kind of garment which he prefers. In reality, he may be obeying the orders of an anonymous gentleman tailor in London. This personage is the silent partner in a modest tailoring establishment, which is patronized by gentlemen of fashion and princes of the blood." p35 "In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind." Quote: "Men are rarely aware of the real reasons which motivate their actions. A man may believe that he buys a motor car because, after careful study of the technical features of all makes on the market, he has concluded that this is the best. He is almost certainly fooling himself. He bought it, perhaps, because a friend whose financial acumen he respects bought one last week; or because his neighbors believed he was not able to afford a car of that class; or because its colors are those of his college fraternity." p51 Quote: Diet, injections and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. Even if all are miserable, all will believe themselves happy, because the government will tell them that they are so.. Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society 1953 Or Zbigniew Brzezinski's Between Two Ages, written in 1970 by the way, this guy was high up in the NSA and advisor to Obama and others. Quote: "At some point, however, even the efficiency oriented group will have to address itself to the more basic questions concerning the nature of man and the purpose of social existence. Until it does so, there is always the likelihood that the ruling elite can at least temporarily succeed in compartmentalizing the scientific community, in extracting its talents, and in corrupting it with a system of rewards—all the while reserving to itself the definition of the larger objectives." -p.81 "The traditionally democratic American society could, because of its fascination with technical efficiency, become an extremely controlled society, and its humane and individualistic qualities would thereby be lost. (Such a society is the subject of Kurt Vonnegut’s novel Player Piano.)" -p253 "Speaking of a future at most only decades away, an experimenter in intelligence control asserted, “I foresee a time when we shall have the means and therefore, inevitably, the temptation to manipulate the behavior and intellectual functioning of all the people through environmental and biochemical manipulation of the brain." -p15 "In addition, it may be possible—and tempting—to exploit for strategic-political purposes the fruits of research on the brain and on human behavior. Gordon J. F. MacDonald, a geophysicist specializing in problems of warfare, has written that accurately timed, artificially excited electronic strokes “could lead to a pattern of oscillations that produce relatively high power levels over certain regions of the earth. . . . In this way, one could develop a system that would seriously impair the brain performance of very large populations in selected regions over an extended period... No matter how deeply disturbing the thought of using the environment to manipulate behavior for national advantages to some, the technology permitting such use will very probably develop within the next few decades." -p57 "Another threat, less overt but no less basic, confronts liberal democracy. More directly linked to the impact of technology, it involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled and directed society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite whose claim to political power would rest on allegedly superior scientific knowhow. Unhindered by the restraints of traditional liberal values, this elite would not hesitate to achieve its political ends by using the latest modern techniques for influencing public behavior and keeping society under close surveillance and control. Under such circumstances, the scientific and technological momentum of the country would not be reversed but would actually feed on the situation it exploits." -p252-253 "Persisting social crisis, the emergence of a charismatic personality, and the exploitation of mass media to obtain public confidence would be the steppingstones in the piecemeal transformation of the United States into a highly controlled society." -p253 Charlies Galton Darwin's The Next Million Years 1953 Quote: "Another type of discovery may be connected with hormones, those internal chemical secretions which so largely regulate the operations of the human body. The artificial use of hormones has already been shown to have profound effects on the behaviour of animals, and it seems quite possible that hormones, or perhaps drugs, might have similar effects on man. For example, there might be a drug, which, without other harmful effects, removed the urgency of sexual desire, and so reproduced in humanity the status of workers in a beehive. Or there might be another drug that produced a permanent state of contentment in the recipient—after all alcohol does something like this already, though it has other disadvantages and is only temporary in its effects. A dictator would certainly welcome the compulsory administration of the "contentment drug" to his subjects." p183 Quote: "Widespread wealth can never be common in an overcrowded world, and so in most countries of the future the government will inevitably be autocratic or oligarchic; some will give good government and some bad, and the goodness or badness will depend much more on the personal merits of the rulers than it does in a more democratic country." p194 Quote: "To think of it as possible at other times is a misunderstanding of the function of government in any practical sense of the term. If the only things that a government was required to do were what everybody, or nearly everybody, wanted, there would be no need for the government to exist at all, because the things would be done anyhow; this would be the impracticable ideal of the anarchist. But if there are to be starving margins of population in most parts of the world, mere benevolence cannot suffice. There would inevitably be ill feeling and jealousy between the provinces, with each believing that it was not getting its fair share of the good things, and in fact, it would be like the state of affairs with which we are all too familiar. If then there is ever to be a world government, it will have to function as government do now, in the sense that it will have to coerce a minority - and indeed it may often be a majority - into doing things they do not want to." p191 White House Science Czar John Holdren's co-authored book Ecosciences in 1978 Quote: "Perhaps those agencies, combined with UNEP and the United Nations population agencies, might eventually be developed into a Planetary Regime—sort of an international superagency for population, resources, and environment. Such a comprehensive Planetary Regime could control the development, administration, conservation, and distribution of all natural resources, renewable or nonrenewable, at least insofar as international implications exist. Thus the Regime could have the power to control pollution not only in the atmosphere and oceans, but also in such freshwater bodies as rivers and lakes that cross international boundaries or that discharge into the oceans. The Regime might also be a logical central agency for regulating all international trade, perhaps including assistance from DCs to LDCs, and including all food on the international market. The Planetary Regime might be given responsibility for determining the optimum population for the world and for each region and for arbitrating various countries' shares within their regional limits. Control of population size might remain the responsibility of each government, but the Regime would have some power to enforce the agreed limits." - p943 My point about all of this, and there is much more to consider espcially if you've got $20,000 to buy a Tavistock textbook, is that regardless of what we think about whether or not we are all responsible for the entire society, there are many powerful people who have taken that responsibility and their actions and decision making are at the core of many of the problems we see today and in history but don't realize why and weren't/aren't told why. I think to discuss our individual roles in the responsibility of the entire society must also consider those who make it their life's work to create history and make the big decisions for everyone because they took it upon themselves to do it. I'm not debating whether or not they are wrong or right, I only learned about this stuff because I thought it was absolutely crazy and impossible, that it was just all conspiracy but there is really something to all of it. Because the majority of people take responsibility for themselves in manners that are obvious and in ways provided to them by the controlled entire society, it's like Plato's cave or a child born into a room that just is not even aware of what else is really out there. Like we're all born on an island and have no knowledge or concept of mountains, rivers, or other basic geological landscapes. Or the elephant that is trained to walk around in a circle so well that it never ever even thinks to deviate from that original path as it grows up. Vusuki what you said does make sense and I agree with you from your perspective. I really can't say I know what's best even for myself other than what I think based on from what I've learned, experienced and received from other people and from education and media that is created by people just like me who aren't born with all the answers they are just trying. I was born into an ever changing geological and political environment that has a history of over a million years for all I know. But there are families, bloodlines that have preserved their knowledge through experiencing the rise and fall of empires, who have experienced major environmental calamities, have been part of or witnessed the evolution of so much technology and spiritual/philosophical ideas, and I can't really judge these big decisions makers from my relatively immature position. I do know that most people just want to live and enjoy their lives, myself included but I can see the trends and feel for where things could go and you see with all the things going on around the world and at home, I sense trouble ahead and so I try to understand the who, what, where, why, how. Because I am a young adult who is maturing and seeks to become more responsible for myself, my friends and family, I must consider how that all factors into the grand scheme of the entire society because I am part of it. I'm not trying to stay within the confines of the black and white dualistic world where it's just me, my friends and family, or us and my country versus them, or my religion or ideology versus them. I'm trying to understand as much as I can so that I can plan and act accordingly to what opportunities and possibilities may present themselves positive or negative. So I see these very influential, promiment, wealthy, noble people as examples to learn from and take into consideration their insights. I could just say that from all I've read and seen that they have it under control, they are smarter and have more resources or experience in playing that authoritative decision making role and maybe they know what's best. I can't do that though because there is a lot of greed, deception, sinisterness that as a Jedi and considering the doctrine it all demands a closer examination and perhaps even some justice. Some of these people talk about other humans like they're their chattel, that the masses aren't smart enough or responsible enough (after dumbing them down and keeping them ignorant by design) to play a role in the responsibility for the entire society. On one level sure I can agree that not everyone needs to and we would never come to any solutions if we waited around for everyone to decide. We'll never have a utopia but as we've seen in history with Hitler or Stalin the world can fall into a dystopia fairly quickly in the attempts of elite groups trying to create a utopia themselves. While most people think everything is under control, we have terrorists and economic hardships but nothing so tragic like history could happen again - I think they're all in for a surprise when they found out just how controlled things have really become and even though millions of people aren't being hauled off and disappeared, we're being incrementally terminated by scientific, medical means. Some have talked about how they desire to wipe out 80% of the popluation and use the overpopulation myth as justification for implementation of policies that will bring their envisioned utopia to life. Quote: I am not responable for myself, for others and the environment to which I live in. I will never have such a knowledge about all of that to respond in the best way, BUT, if we were to play a word game we could split the word reponsible to response and able- or able to respond- BUT, by becoming able to respond (by being aware of what's going on inside and outside) it is then that I can be responable. And that's the key. I may seem overly passionate about all of this but it's just because I myself have been in the situation of just not caring about myself, what I eat, what I do, didn't care about the environment, politics, spirituality, the whole mystery of the universe. I know so many people who still live like that, who are just after money, material stuff and status. We do this because it's how we've been trained, and it's how our trainers are, the apples don't fall far from the tree. Some only respond to what's inside, which is what was put inside by TV and authority, some only respond to what's outside and act without that inner wisdom or consciousness and they become the useful idiots or pawns of others. I don't expect perfection and I'm not up in arms about all of this trying to wake everyone up or save the world, I just really like to talk about it because it's the elephant in the room and not many see it and it really has to do with this topic.
    • Post Initiate Program (Last post by JLSpinner)
    • Quote: Waiting can be so much fun JL :) Even if it is longer, try to enjoy it! If you enjoy it, other people will enjoy too. :cheer: No worries! Its not bad. I work third shift and the forums are kind of quiet at night.
    • [Open Forum] What is "freedom of speech?"... (Last post by JLSpinner)
    • From what I've read it seems to be a debate of freedom vs etiquette. In the US you can say anything that doesn't violate another or cause danger. This does not mean there won't be consequences if it doesn't match the views of those listening. It also doesn't mean I have to listen.
    • Team E - 100 days of discipline (Last post by jake_sato)
    • Day 30 - WOW... Update: I have gained 5 lbs of lean mass! I am clam despite crashing cpu's lol and I have lengthened my meditation time to a standard of 20 minutes from 15!!!! :) Can not wait for 70 more days - with a FINE group of Jedi :D
    • A path before/alongside jediism? (Last post by Scham Ansim)
    • It's so incredibly interesting to see the variety of paths members on here have been on! Seems like we have quite a few Buddhists (not too surprising). I myself grew up with great influence from my mother, who considers herself a member of Church Universal and Triumphant (CUT). I'm not entirely sure what the religion itself is called, but it's a branch of Theosophy (somewhat similar to Universal Unitarianism). She engaged me in the teachings of that church with emphasis on Christianity, Hinduism, and Shamanism. Eventually, I fell out of that religion because I did some research on CUT and found out some things I wasn't thrilled with. Apparently it found itself in a controversy back in the 80's and 90's and was accused of being a cult. I'm also not a fan on how dogmatic some of their beliefs are. After that I sort of stumbled along with my faith. A friend eventually told me I fit the definition of a pantheist pretty well. I did some research and felt the same, so took that label on. Then I found Jediism, which still works with my beliefs quite well, possibly even better than any other labels I've held ;)
    • How many practice telekinesis? (Last post by JLSpinner)
    • I'm not gonna lie. I have tried. Multiple times. Never had success with it though. Is it possible? I don't know. Maybe that's my issue. Maybe the moment you think it won't work is when it won't.
    • Rants far and wide (Last post by Snowy Aftermath)
    • This brain fog... I miss knowing that what I've said is coherent. You've given me 2452345u345 mood stabilizers and medications for depression over the past 18 years... can't you give me ONE to keep me from getting lost in my own brain during a conversation?
    • From time to time a poem (Last post by Alexandre Orion)
    • Jour 37 Seul sous la Nouvelle Lune Où, dans la ténèbre totale, Je patauge sur les eaux Cherchant un point d'entrée. La noirceur de ces eaux troubles N'invite guère la pêche, Mais j'y reste, À la surface, mon envie glaciale Me brûle : Dans cette obscurité, Peloter encore le visage De cette curieuse créature Qui hante mes profondeurs, De toucher sa mèche, De sentir sa peau lisse Glisser contre moi … Je barbote désespérément Sans qu'une seule goutte cède À ma descente vers le monstre Qui prit mon cœur dans la pénombre Du Dernier Quartier, Fuyant aux abîmes Où je devrais le suivre. * Alone, under the New Moon Where, in the total darkness, I wade in the waters Looking for a point of entry. The blackness of the troubled waters Does not invite fishing, But I stay there, At the surface, my glacial desire Burning : In this obscurity, To caress again the face Of this curious creature Which haunts my depths, To touch his hair, To feel his smooth skin Sliding against me … I desperately splash about And not a drop gives way To my descent toward the monster Who took my heart in the half-light Of the Waning Moon, Fleeing to the abyss Where I must follow him. Alexandre Orion 6-7 février 2016

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