Rogue One and the Return of Reverence

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04 Jan 2017 16:14 #271115 by Alethea Thompson
Alethea Thompson created the topic: Rogue One and the Return of Reverence
No spoilers in this, it's an analysis of the different sets of movies. Incredibly good read by a Catholic Blogger.

www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2017/...-return-of-reverence

Snippet that I thought was quite intriguing (and I've not watched the film yet- my son won't sit still and I don't get weekends with my husband because I work them :/):

Barring a few from Darth Vader, Rogue One contains almost none of the technological “uses” of the Force that marked the prequels. There are no Jedi driving the action. Instead, we have a believer who trusts the Force, not as a power to be manipulated, but as an object of prayer: “The Force is with me and I am one with the Force.” Îmwe “prays” as he walks through the field of lasers, but we don’t see bolts careening off by the swipe of an unseen hand. It is Îmwe who must change in accordance with the Force. It guides him, not vice versa.

Similarly, there are no magical “saves” in Rogue One. The Force is not manipulated for human ends; rather, the human end of “avoiding biological death” is subordinated to the Force. The main characters die believing, but without “getting what they want” via that belief. The film embodies that fundamental religious recognition—that there is a life greater than biological life, and the true influence of the supernatural is to help us cast off our lives for this greater life. Martyrdom, by which one can willfully give up biological life for some higher value, is the true gift of the Force.

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04 Jan 2017 16:25 #271121 by rugadd
rugadd replied the topic: Rogue One and the Return of Reverence
I'm not sure what to say other than it was a very good read. The reverence for the Force and our place as part of it was better explained in this writing than I think I ever have spoken of it. For me, the biggest challenge is continuing to view it with a reverent tone instead of simplifying it, glossing over it, or ignoring the parts that do not fit with in my very limited understanding. I needed a healthy dose of the spirituality I have dedicated myself too, especially recently.

For all my talk about sublimating my life with the things that make me happy, this was a reminder that there are parts of me left unfulfilled, no matter how much information I have access too, or how (relatively) comfortable my life has become.

One of the universal teachings is one of service to something bigger than myself. Again, something I needed a reminder of.

rugadd
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04 Jan 2017 16:34 #271124 by Death, yet the Force
Death, yet the Force replied the topic: Rogue One and the Return of Reverence
I like the way that it describes Îmwe's relationship with the Force. I will confess I came out of the film thinking that he isn't uncannily close to that of a real life Jedi.

I've always likened the Force as Îmwe does: as a guide or a counsellor. The fact that Îmwe's bare faith in the Force makes him a stronger character than some renowned Jedi from Star Wars is both interesting and inspiring for the likes of real life Jedi!

That being said, I woundn't say no to being able to throw people across the room too ;)
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04 Jan 2017 16:47 #271127 by Senan
Senan replied the topic: Rogue One and the Return of Reverence
In my mind, Chirrut Imwe will be a game changer for Jediism as a religion. I came out of the film feeling like Chirrut as a character could finally open the door to understanding the difference between the Force using fictional Jedi and those of us who understand the Force in a spiritual way in our actual lives. Prior to Rogue One, the best I could do was compare Yoda's words to the Tao, Luke's story to the Hero's Journey or Vader's motivations to that of a Samurai, but now we have a character that displays complete faith in the Force without having the ability to manipulate it toward his own ends. We see a person who, despite being blind, is able to put his complete trust in the Force and the people around him to protect him. Even when that protection is not enough, he accepts his situation and his fate without ever questioning his faith.

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05 Jan 2017 01:26 #271174 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Kyrin Wyldstar replied the topic: Rogue One and the Return of Reverence
Do you think that is the intent? Maybe it is a nod to Jediism and maybe it is an allegory of the paradigm of Catholic enslavement where a few elite priests have all the power, a direct relationship to "god", direct manipulation of the holy spirit and can do no wrong no matter what attrocities they commit while beneath them are the "blind" followers of their corrupt religion and the outskirts of that are the nonbelievers, the lowest of the dregs.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.

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05 Jan 2017 02:03 #271180 by steamboat28
steamboat28 replied the topic: Rogue One and the Return of Reverence

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Do you think that is the intent? Maybe it is a nod to Jediism and maybe it is an allegory of the paradigm of Catholic enslavement...

Well, Jedi are irreparably corrupt, and maintained a stranglehold and monopoly on the Force, if you want to insist on such a crude, incorrect, and obviously biased metaphor.

I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, I like the idea of reverence to the Force. It's beneficial in many ways to the path-seekers that mirror their lives on Force-based religious groups. On the other, I think that saying the Force has a "will" is overly-anthropomorphizing. I feel that the Force has a motion, and we're either in step with it or working against it. Rivers don't have wills, but they have direction and motion, and disagreeing with one can make your life harder; so, too, with the Force.
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05 Jan 2017 02:20 #271184 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Kyrin Wyldstar replied the topic: Rogue One and the Return of Reverence

steamboat28 wrote: Well, Jedi are irreparably corrupt, and maintained a stranglehold and monopoly on the Force, if you want to insist on such a crude, incorrect, and obviously biased metaphor.


Oh rearry??
Well your incorruptable heros also used jedi mind tricks, aggresive negotiation not unlike gunboat diplomacy and outright manipulation to get their way. Case in point is qui-gons manipulation of dice to change the output of a bet for Anakin. Are these "Jedi" you hold in an incorruptable reguard really those all benevolent characters or could they maybe, possibly be concieved of as heros to some but villians to others?

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.

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05 Jan 2017 02:27 - 05 Jan 2017 02:28 #271185 by steamboat28
steamboat28 replied the topic: Rogue One and the Return of Reverence
Kyrin clearly didn't actually read my post, but replied anyhow [ Click to expand ]


You maybe wanna give that a second go?
Last Edit: 05 Jan 2017 02:28 by steamboat28.
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05 Jan 2017 02:30 #271187 by Avalon
Avalon replied the topic: Rogue One and the Return of Reverence

steamboat28 wrote:

Kyrin clearly didn't actually read my post, but replied anyhow [ Click to expand ]


You maybe wanna give that a second go?


And maybe pull out a dictionary in the process?
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05 Jan 2017 02:38 - 05 Jan 2017 02:38 #271188 by Adder
Adder replied the topic: Rogue One and the Return of Reverence
I'd view reverence in this context as being a type of internal 'focus', recruiting inner strength or awareness etc.

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Last Edit: 05 Jan 2017 02:38 by Adder.
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