Copy of Post in the Knight's Forum: Election of Knights as Advisory Council

Zenchi wrote:

steamboat28 wrote: Can I be "that guy" and ask that the Apprentice position be voted on by mostly, if not only, apprentices? If they're going to have an official advisory voice, I'd love for them to be able to choose it themselves.

Personally speaking, I'm looking forward to voting on apprentices, IF we decide we are In fact going through with the idea...

I have no issues with the vote being decided by the knights, as I believe the apprentice advisor is just a voice from the apprentice level, as opposed to representing the apprentices as a whole.

But if people feel very strongly about it, why don't the apprentices confer about, say, the top 2 or 3 as voted by the knights?

Honestly, we have input as is indicated by the fact that the Knights have the primary input. That means everyone else's input is taken into account. So frankly I think it's fine as it is. No need to delay or complicate things any further. I mean I agree with Leah that this is not necessarily a voice for the Apprentices as a group but a viewpoint of the Apprentice level on the board.

I also have no issues with the knights being the decision makers. I was merely stating, perhaps in poor wording, that if the knights are going to be the final decision makers for their level, it would be nice for the apprentices to get that same option when picking one of our own rank. But if the knights decide that they want to be the ones who make the decision, then that's fine too. *shrugs*

Allow me to rephrase: If you are unwilling to listen to the input of the apprentices on a council "member" of their rank, what trust should we have that you'll listen to an apprentice as an advisor?

So long as the individual apprentices are nominated by their Masters I personally have no problem letting the apprentices choose their own rep

Why with that caveat?

steamboat28 wrote: Allow me to rephrase: If you are unwilling to listen to the input of the apprentices on a council "member" of their rank, what trust should we have that you'll listen to an apprentice as an advisor?

The thing is they are listening to us. Primary does not mean sole input. It just means main. The Knights and Council generally take the input given on most topics and then debate it and vote. Its no different here. Further if they did not wish to listen to an Apprentice they would not even invite one to the board. There was no need to do that. So I take it as a good faith gesture of openness.

Because a TM is responsible during the apprenticeship for the learning and progress of the apprentice.

steamboat28 wrote: Allow me to rephrase: If you are unwilling to listen to the input of the apprentices on a council "member" of their rank, what trust should we have that you'll listen to an apprentice as an advisor?

I suppose it should be clarified, then, if the apprentice advisor is meant to represent the apprentices as a whole or just be a single vice amongst many potential voices.

Also, are you speaking for all apprentices when you say that the input of the apprentices isn't being listened to?

MadHatter wrote: The thing is they are listening to us. Primary does not mean sole input. It just means main. The Knights and Council generally take the input given on most topics and then debate it and vote. Its no different here. Further if they did not wish to listen to an Apprentice they would not even invite one to the board. There was no need to do that. So I take it as a good faith gesture of openness.

I'm not saying it isn't progress. I'm just saying that I'm sure that apprentices would like to have a pretty confident say in who speaks for them as a Council advisor. Because, no matter what we want to call it at this point, it's a safe assumption that's what it'll turn into.