what is wisdom? and how do we know how wise a thing or person is?

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17 Jun 2020 05:58 #352779 by Glenn
Wisdom is very difficult to define, and harder to find the degree of what is wiser. Any thoughts welcome.

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17 Jun 2020 06:38 #352780 by Adder
Information derived from the less than obvious associations, in a timely manner?

That is... accurate despite appearances. Since we all work with what's in front of us, given the same material different people might interpret the meaning of its parts differently. Some of us have a greater understanding of what those things might mean, or some might have less conditioned bias etc.
But superficial reasoning is faster because its more attractive earlier, but sometimes things can be interpreted differently if one knows how to weigh different pieces of information differently, by having some edge on what is going to be more meaningful or accurate, than other apparent sources.

So to measure; maybe if it's less then obvious and makes sense once revealed.... then it could be determined how obscured it was to determine it.

If sufficient information is not available, then perhaps its is the use of imagination to construct and sufficiently update, a model that explains the missing information in such a way as to yield 'sense'. A measure then being alone the same lines, how obscure was the initial condition and how much work was needed to generate the most correct result.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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28 Oct 2020 21:31 #355748 by rugadd
I've always seen wisdom as applied experience. I'm not sure that can be quantified, but if your looking for the real deal, see what their wisdom has produced.

rugadd
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28 Oct 2020 22:01 - 28 Oct 2020 22:02 #355750 by Adder
LOL at my above post. It is so hard to follow.
I think experience is the best foundation for wisdom. It's just going to have the greatest chance of having more accurate knowledge.
But I also think experience can appear like wisdom to another, when it's really just experience. I'm not sure if I call what wisdom myself. As unfortunately experience can also generate biases which can cloud it forming wisdom, yet it still may appear as wisdom to others as a result of being derived from experience.

rugadd wrote: I've always seen wisdom as applied experience. I'm not sure that can be quantified, but if your looking for the real deal, see what their wisdom has produced.


Sounds like you define wisdom like someone who has been creative and used that to solve problems, for example? I'm not sure I understand where experience fits in, beyond being generally what work is ie 'solving problems'. Does creativity factor in your 'applied experience' to distinguish it from work?
Perhaps wisdom must denote some step up or out of the problem paradigm perhaps, with a solution bringing in something new..... and therefore generally requiring experience to be realistically effective and applicable?

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 28 Oct 2020 22:02 by Adder. Reason: quote spacing

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29 Oct 2020 13:10 - 29 Oct 2020 13:38 #355779 by rugadd
Well, it is sort of like "algebra of life". Some people can finish a sentence even with words missing, and other people


See what I did there?


How it relates: Experience puts all the necessary pieces down and a wise person can see the end result even if it isn't obvious.

The difference, I feel, is that with wisdom you have an idea that is more or less accurate, even if you don't have all the facts to work with.

EDIT: When I write that "Experience puts all the necessary pieces down" it should be taken that those experiences are not necessarily directly related to the subject over which wisdom is sought. If one has direct knowledge of a process/situation it is not so much wisdom, for me, than it is first hand knowledge.

rugadd
Last edit: 29 Oct 2020 13:38 by rugadd.
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30 Oct 2020 04:41 #355794 by Adder
I like your example, it sounds like a teacher talking to kids. Like creating of opportunity to make other people feel smart (by not actually saying something but inferring it strongly enough for them to work it out themselves (and probably be right)). But some people probably define wisdom as the capability to playing to someones capacity to be led, in that way. I doubt that is wisdom per se but a bit didactic method perhaps? It would be an interesting theory though, a 'didactic hole' LOL. I'm really good at taking things literally, sorry.

Otherwise, yea I agree. I guess that would explain why you relate it to results, because that would differentiate it from guessing.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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30 Oct 2020 13:43 #355801 by rugadd
My mannerism is likely a hold over from teaching kids in my martial arts classes. It seemed the most effective way so I hardwired it. Works well with grown ups too as long as I am careful not too make it sound condescending.

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02 Nov 2020 14:05 #355859 by rugadd
As far as didactic motivations, is it wisdom if no one picks up on it? If its kept to the self, would it then be just a belief? Can it be wise without someone acknowledging it such?

rugadd

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02 Nov 2020 23:03 #355871 by Adder

rugadd wrote: As far as didactic motivations, is it wisdom if no one picks up on it? If its kept to the self, would it then be just a belief? Can it be wise without someone acknowledging it such?


Yea depends on the motivations I guess.
If a person is 'exploring' then they themselves are getting a benefit of any wisdom, but also sharing the process in case others do also.
If a person is 'teaching' then they are not getting much benefit themselves as it's known territory for them, but others might if it's new.
In either case whether its experienced as wisdom, true, obvious, wrong, confusing etc might say more about where the listeners existing knowledge compares more than anything to do with the delivery per se? As such a 'formal' teaching environment is going to be really efficient because its going to align teacher and student succinctly for effect, as the formality of it. Me personally as a Jedi it's inherent though for me to explore my boundaries, and to do so in such a way as to try and help others benefit from it. But those two example motivations might not be the only types, and they need not be exclusive from each other. I guess it depends what a person is trying to achieve with their 'thinking'.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu

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02 Nov 2020 23:25 #355873 by rugadd
Or just thinking, with no prior agenda.

rugadd

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