Critiquing the boarder wall for ( Br John . )

04 Feb 2020 15:09 #349396 by ZealotX

Malicious wrote: The wall isn't there to stop them but to slow them down , if they cut through it or climb over it then it's slowing them down and allowing for a quicker response from the boarder patrol . By corralling them I mean if they don't have the ( tools ) to get past it then they will try to go to a spot where there is no wall aka corralling them to a spot that will be monitored better . Ya they could cut through it and we can repair it . They can use latters but it will slow them down allowing for them to be caught . Heck I vote for a type of DMZ like the one separating north and south Korea . We used similar tactics when gaining territory from Mexico , send people in then take the land . And no I'm not necessarily saying that is what's going on either . We need to make there countries better not make ours worse . We build up countries economies around the world but for what oil or strategical advantage ? We need to help there countries not for what we will get but to help there people .


Brother, in general, when something is illegal that doesn't mean there isn't an industry or a market that supports it. I'd like you to close your eyes and let your mind wander as you ponder the age of prohibition. Trump is a very simple minded man. Because he is simple he suggests a wall. What we have to do is act like someone else suggested it so that our biases, pro or against Trump, don't affect whether or not we think this is a good idea. The reason I said Trump is a very simple minded man goes back to something I said about him prior to his election. I don't necessarily mean it as an attack but it wouldn't be fair for me not to expect you to take it that way.

I said that Trump was unable to consider secondary and tertiary consequences. He is more action and reaction. So instead of thinking how Mexicans will get around the wall before building it. He will build it first, then see them getting around it, and only then react by trying to think of what to do next. The problem is that one should be smart enough to assume if there are ways to get around it, people will in fact get around it. And if getting around it can be duplicated then now there will be an industry around it, just like there is already an industry for getting people into the US. We even have cartoons like Border Town, that features a "Coyote" (spanish term for people who smuggle people across the border). But even when he heard reports of Mexicans cutting through the wall, instead of saying "well then I'll do X" he could only say/admit "you can cut through anything". In other words, he hadn't thought about what to do after they cut their way through. It didn't exist for him.

So similar to prohibition, where you had a lot of people complaining about the policing of alcohol and where you had gangs and criminal organizations providing alcohol and competing with each other, by making it harder to physically enter you simply create more capitalistic demand for criminals who can help people get across. And since that's their business, they're not going to be slowed by a massive and expensive wall. They're already going to have multiple places where the wall is already cut, tunneled under, ladders buried beside, etc. etc. so that once they lead a group to that spot, they just go through.

The money you spend on that you could put to better use on drone technology. A wall would be passive. A wall of drones would be active. Like robot vacuum cleaners, drones could be automated and programmed either follow a certain route, do search patterns, alter timing randomly, etc. In fact, you "could" if its not too much like "skynet", put the same Deep Mind AI that beats top RTS players, to control the drones. The AI would learn the patterns and routes taken by the coyotes, be able to identify individual coyotes based on their behaviors and track them down to their homes.

IF, for some reason you were thinking about RTS tactics, and decided that walls are useful... RTS games are military, not domestic. Even if the people surrender themselves as soon as they come in, you still have to process them and pay to transport them somewhere and what will stop them from trying again? The bottom line is that if the place they're coming from is so hostile that their life is in danger, then a wall is not going to weaken their resolve to seek out a better life. We would be better off taking those billions of dollars that would have gone into the wall, and strengthen economies in South America. We use cheap foreign labor in China. Are you actually telling me that's okay but we can't take half of that business, diversify it, and move it to Africa and South America?

We're already losing a drug war that is hitting us on our own soil and costing the lives of thousands of Americans. This war made criminal enterprises more lucrative than legal ones in many of these countries. You can't sanction the drug dealers. But again... just like with prohibition... the policing often causes more problems than the illicit item itself because criminals don't just give up, they react by being better organized, which makes them more effective.

So I would legalize drugs and control access. Even if a black market still exists, you would be effectively defunding it as people start getting their drugs from retailers who can get it through legal channels. All the bribery and violence and guns and all that, currently associate with that illicit product? ...becomes unnecessary.

If you legalize it people can still die. True... but are they not dying already? And aren't people dying who aren't involved with drugs at all? Innocent bystanders, drug mules, children. Ever see the movie Desperado? Think of all the fronts people use to wash their money. And then you have that legit drugs often create the market for the illegal drugs because people get addicted to the legal stuff but then insurance cuts them off and its too expensive to get without insurance. So what do you do if you're in pain? And when you cut those people off without monitoring them afterwards its almost like you're fueling the criminal drug industry. But the illegal drugs carry enough of a savings that multiple levels of black-market industries can be supported and can afford to pay people on the manufacturing side, the distribution side, as well as end sales... "corner boys".

What if, instead of corner boys, you had new jobs where people got paid to administer your drug treatments in your home, monitor your vitals, test samples of the drugs before injected, make sure the quality is pure and not tainted or cut with another product that's even worse for you? And that person has narcan and first aid supplies on hand just in case. Those could be real jobs in the future that Americans could do.

The bottom line is that you cannot react to every action. You have to follow the problem to its sources and fix those. Otherwise, the things you are reacting to will simply keep changing and evolving and you'll be in a perpetual state of fighting them with results that could be argued are actually worse than the initial crime.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Alethea Thompson, Malicious

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