Can't be a Jedi if you support Trump...?

29 Aug 2019 19:54 #342788 by ZealotX

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote:

steamboat28 wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Yes , every where not only in America.

Since you're universally and chronically obtuse, allow me to rephrase: People are dying as a direct result of Trump's policies.
You know damn well what I meant.

Also, let's take a moment and re-assess the opening question using an analogy:
  • Jedi believe the sky is blue.
  • Orange man says sky is green.
  • You support orange man.
  • By association, you support orange man's claim sky is green.
  • You no longer believe sky is blue.
  • ∴, you are no longer Jedi.

Was I no longer Jedi when Papi sent me to war ? Bill? W.? Barack? We’re soldiers nazis when they did their jobs?
Um no- nice assessment but I can’t - do all this.
The sky reflects color. Regardless of who calls the sky what color at what time in what part of the world- I am still a modern day Jeddist. Regardless of who holds this to be true or thinks I don’t deserve the title - still a Jedi.
People who TELL other people what they are - are us usually not right.

It’s ok . I understand ... I think.

Sorry if I’m no fun ... I know.

Carlos... you're okay man.

My guess is you do not endorse kids in cages or people in general being killed and lives destroyed or ruined by Trump's policies. One of the points I've tried to make is that Trump's policies should be DISTINCTLY UNDERSTOOD apart from Republican ideals. If you fought for the government you're more likely to be a republican. Why? Because Republicans are to the military what Democrats are to black people. Black people are far more likely to vote for Democrats because it is the lesser of 2 evils and Dems are more likely to support domestic issues that are of greater concern to black voters. Military people are different. They see more support coming from Republicans who like spending lots of money on the military because they want to appear strong. This strength often comes at the cost of social programs. It's a trade off. However, you can be both strong militarily and take care of your people. But the argument is that republicans are more supportive of the troops even if they don't necessarily extend the same support to veterans affairs or hospitals that treat vets and other social programs that support vets. The propaganda/marketing is that Republicans are stronger on defense just like they are supposed to be fiscally conservative and against deficits. However, in practice this is not true and often the military spending is what puts us further in debt.

Anyway... the bottom line is that its not uncommon for vets to still have great loyalty to the Republican party. And especially if you start using war like rhetoric against immigrants, calling them "invaders", then you are more likely to trigger a patriotic response (while hugging the flag) to be totally against them and not care what happens to them because how many people actually care what happens to enemy soldiers and enemy combatants? Sometimes drones kill a person's whole family and we look every bit like the monsters they say we are. And these actions help them recruit and make sure we'll be fighting them in the next generation (well... unless we kill them all).

But if you're a Jedi... and you believe in the inherent worth of all life... then you have to put that former loyalty aside and re-evaluate it. I'm not saying don't be loyal to the US. I'm saying be loyal to the ideals within the US that agree with your beliefs as a Jedi and fight for those beliefs until the US is actively upholding those virtues. This is what makes the US what it is. It's people constantly struggling to make it better. Trump is fighting against it to make it worse. He's taking policies and making them worse so that they hurt more people and actually kill kids with cancer AS UNBELIEVABLE AS THAT SOUNDS. If you don't support that then don't support Trump. Instead, support the ideals of what the Republican party SHOULD BE. This idea that this Orange guy is a republican is... almost ridiculous. People assume he is because he keeps attacking Democrats. But he was just a Democrat himself a few years ago! So he's only using the divide and widening it because he knew his chances of winning were better as a Republican. He doesn't care. He doesn't care about you or the Republican party. This is why at least 2 republicans are trying to primary him.

The question in this thread is not about supporting Republican policies, but TRUMP and Trump policies. You have to separate the two. I don't care if you voted for Trump. It's okay. A lot of people did. A lot of farmers did. A lot of coal miners did. A lot of steel workers did. And a lot of them are regretting that vote. And that's okay. You don't have to give HIM your loyalty. Just be loyal to your country and her allies. I do not believe you could be in favor of these policies that not only separate families but lose track of parents and children so that its hard to reunite them. I do not believe you want to deport sick kids so they can die in South America. I could be wrong, but I see you more as a Republican than an actual Trump supporter.
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29 Aug 2019 20:12 #342789 by Carlos.Martinez3
Mahalo and thank you Z. I’m not even sure what category I fall into as far as who or what I support in general. I really couldn’t loose sleep over it. In Texas there a place called El Paso. Lived there. Been a part of the whole “ people are being treated bad” riff...

“people arnt cargo “ can’t treat em like that either. Do they - yup - have they ? Yup - will they tomorrow ? Prolly- think about this - as a American on sovereign land I have been : treated like cattle - a stranger - lost freedoms gained them- been subject of many moments, I wasn’t in control of and called a traitor. Still American. Still me. I know people effected. I help. I don’t complain. I know people who are forgotten - I remind and remember.

The Creed

I am a Jedi, an instrument of peace;

Where there is hatred I shall bring love;
Where there is injury, pardon;
Where there is doubt, faith;
Where there is despair, hope;
Where there is darkness, light;
And where there is sadness, joy.

I am a Jedi.

I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console;
To be understood as to understand;
To be loved as to love;
For it is in giving that we receive;
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

The Force is with me always, for I am a Jedi.

Not just a poster on the wall or a phrase to say... I live it. Apply it
It’s finding out how and not getting in trouble or ruining things this time that’s my concern. Give blankets to people. Feed them. Encourage them. Listen. Help. This is my practice.
I’ve seen ICE in action. I know a few. Truthfully - kinna scary with their hoods and masks all the time. Kinna weird by law they have to be covered... I’ve also talked to their bosses and worked with local churches and organizations to relive the hurt as much as possible. What you gunna do? There are ways.... sometimes we have to be shown or even ... make em.

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
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The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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29 Aug 2019 20:30 #342790 by Kobos
Mod point.......I removed one post directly calling members Nazis, you are entitled to this belief but it is incredibly disrespectful to say that within a thread. You can contact me if you like with a logical reason for the post to remain.

PS Complaints have been received/

Much Love, Professional/Stern voice Kobos

What has to come ? Will my heart grow numb ?
How will I save the world ? By using my mind like a gun
Seems a better weapon, 'cause everybody got heat
I know I carry mine, since the last time I got beat
MF DOOM Books of War

Training Masters: Carlos.Martinez3 and JLSpinner
Knight of the Conclave
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29 Aug 2019 20:36 #342793 by Deimos
Replied by Deimos on topic Can't be a Jedi if you support Trump...?
I would just like to say that I never intended for it to get this out of hand. I was just curious about the original OP. That being said I do appreciate the posts that actually forwarded the discussion, as it was a rather interesting discussion.

May the Force be with you

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29 Aug 2019 20:49 #342795 by ZealotX

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: I don’t like Trump. I don’t like my bosses. But I did vote for him for different reasons. What are we doing with our freedoms?

You fall in the category of good guy sold a bill of goods. I don't know if it helps, but I don't think anyone is trying to blame anyone for their 2016 votes. I could care less who you voted for to be quite honest with you. I made a protest vote against the corporate democrats by voting for the Green party candidate. But I felt so inclined also having a pretty good idea that Republicans would win Ohio regardless.

You are also in Beto country. Not a bad thing. I just remember how positively he has been talking about the El Paso community and how you guys have been coming together to support one another. And that's also good. Keep being positive. Politics is an ugly dirty game and its natural to feel a little dirty just talking about it. But part of why we blast one side or the other is because we don't want to make the same mistakes in the future. I know a lot of people don't like the whole Hitler/Nazi thing being brought up. However, there are some important parallels and things to learn, NOT because anyone here is a Nazi, but rather we want EVERYONE here not to become useful pawns of people who are either actual Nazis or who might as well be.

Hitler wasn't always Hitler. At some point he was a little boy. Then he was a young man. At some point he developed some misguided ideas. At some point other people had those same ideas and there was an echo chamber of rhetoric that was pro German. Of course Germans like it because it was pro-them. So it was popular. Hitler was a populist. The problem was that being pro-German should never have been the same as being anti-Jewish. But they thought Jews were taking their good jobs and resources were too thin. They got into an us vs them mindset. It's either us or them. So their conscience allowed them to give Hitler the power to enforce their will and do things that an individual German may have found morally reprehensible. They hid behind him but ultimately saluted him.

Right now we see this same kind of mindset (not in everyone) and a fire being stoked by Trump. Instead of gas chambers kids are being locked up in cages because their parents aren't wanted in the country and Trump doesn't care how he gets rid of them. Are kids going to die? He doesn't care because his message is popular. And as we hear white nationalists chant "Jews will not replace us" many of us don't wonder why they're suddenly and boldly marching, masks off, tiki torches on, and it is their challengers, ANTIFA (anti-facists) who are being villanized by Fox propaganda ... and Trump. These white nationalists aren't coming out of the closet like its gay pride month because they love Republican values. No... they love Trump because he's speaking their language and they HEAR HIM. Are they all wrong? Are all these white nationalists (who Steve Bannon who worked for Trump is one of) misunderstanding Trump who actually loves brown and black people? Or are they hearing what other republicans don't want to admit is being said?

Actual Nazis are benefiting from the words of the POTUS and they are marching and rallying and training and committing acts of terrorism because they are hearing their president being supportive of their beliefs. It's not a mistake. And it's not a misunderstanding. And even if he condemns them they know that he has to say that for the cameras. But for them, he IS Hitler.

This sad fact sets up a question. Who else supports Trump? And why? The fact that you have other reasons is 100% valid. However, I'm still going to try and convince you (if you needed convincing) that Trump is bad and you should stop supporting him. Because guess what? Those reasons, however good they are, do not outweigh the threat of Trump being Trump. This threat is bigger than any conservative news agency is going to report because anything affecting Trump also affects their party and they know that. The same thing happened with Nixon and was also a racist. But he also had the support of Republicans until his was forced to resign.

Support is something you can withdraw at any time. Anthony Scaramucci (the Mooch) is a smart guy; a republican. He was one of Trumps biggest supporters until he just couldn't even do it anymore and now considers Trump a threat. If other Republicans can see what the Mooch sees (preferably before 2020) then that's good. Doesn't matter if you're Red or Blue is what I'm saying.

As long as you're not Orange.
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29 Aug 2019 20:55 #342797 by ZealotX

rugadd wrote: Zealot...then why are watching him and his antics instead of the money? I mean, if you want to affect change...

What makes you think I ONLY watch him and his antics? The problem is that if you don't focus on him and his antics you can't convince people out of his cult of personality. Because his personality is what drives his support. The idea that he's smart drives his personality. His money is what drives the idea that he's smart.

And he lied to get his money (the money that wasn't given to him by his daddy - and maybe some of that too).

If he is undressed as a liar then maybe people will stop supporting him and then they will vote for someone else and his bad policies go bye bye. Following the money doesn't really do as much because most of the financial transactions in politics are LEGAL. So that isn't going to be the thing that moves voters.
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29 Aug 2019 20:57 #342799 by Deimos
Replied by Deimos on topic Can't be a Jedi if you support Trump...?
Going into the us vs them mentality you mentioned, you say that the left and right have also done that. The extreme ends I mean; the ones destroying property, and the two recent shooters where one was each political extreme. Tim Pool said we are in a cold civil war, and I believe he is at least somewhat correct in that.

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29 Aug 2019 20:58 #342800 by rugadd
Gosh, I don't know...he has been undressed as a liar already and it seems to make people double down on supporting him...

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29 Aug 2019 20:59 #342801 by rugadd
Also, I apologize if I imlied that is all you watch. Anyone reading your posts would know you look deeper than that. I was just wondering about that particular interest...

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29 Aug 2019 23:19 - 29 Aug 2019 23:22 #342804 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic Can't be a Jedi if you support Trump...?
A lot of America's political problems lies in the fact that all they'll do is vote and protest when it's popular to do so.. instigated by one extreme or another.. Political laziness is rampant in America.. they want someone to fix things for them.. they can't govern themselves anymore..

Voting won't change the system because the parties we vote for are invested in said system. Their job is to convince you of the lie that the system exists for your benefit so they can reap the ACTUAL benefits.. it doesn't matter who's in power, the system literally and LEGALLY works for the shareholders of our financial system.. YOU CAN'T VOTE THEM AWAY..

The 1st amendment preserves the right to the same legal process that saw the States break from England in the first place. That's why it was first and why the 2nd was created, to enforce the first.. voting is weak and lazy..
Last edit: 29 Aug 2019 23:22 by Uzima Moto.

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