What would help the Temple Be A Better Place? Suggestions please...

  • Rick D
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11 Jul 2017 14:13 #290276 by Rick D

steamboat28 wrote: One of the problems, Brenna, is that so much goes on out of our sight that we don't really have a way of giving the examples you seek. For example, I was reading a journal entry recently where someone was denied knighthood without giving them pointers on how to fix whatever problems existed. The idea that "we'll know it when we see it" is bunk when it comes to knighthood, in my opinion, and there should at the very least be a rubric of examples to better prepare the wildly disparate teaching methods for their students.

We're in a position where we know things are happening, but we aren't sure exactly what because that transparency we've asked for doesn't exist. Hence the asking.


Ok, so I am going to bring up an example that will address two of the points that have been batted back and forth in this thread: Journal Privacy, and Clearer Communications. Please don't think that this is a jab to anyone that is involved because I have the utmost respect and admiration for everyone who has taken the time to help me in my journey, but I had to put an assignment on the shelf to come back to later because I am totally lost on how to move forward on it.

So....working through the Seminary Studies, I get to the Krishnamurti assignment. There are clear parameters stating to keep each chapter entry to under 300 words. Going through it I find that it is going to take way more than 300 words to convey all of what I need to, so I pare my responses down to a specific avenue of thought and bang it out. When I post it, the response I got was "dude, you totally missed the point on all of it, you are going to have to start over....." Clear Communications - I still haven't figured out exactly where I took the left turn, or even exactly what is expected of me for this assignment... Journal Privacy - to try and figure it out, I start to read what others have posted in their journals and found that no one adhered to the 300 word limit.

In conclusion, I agree with Steamboat about the ambiguity being "bunk" because if the assignment is "read this and give your thoughts" and I read it and give my thoughts, then no answer should be wrong. If you're looking for something specific, then spell that out. Also, I understand the thought of making journals private, but keeping them open to those in the same field of study can be helpful.

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  • Rick D
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11 Jul 2017 14:19 #290277 by Rick D
Here's my suggestion:

Just as knights take apprentices and teach them towards Knighthood; maybe part of the Apprenticeship program should be for apprentices to help guide novices through the IP.

I'm sure most of the teaching knights would agree that taking an apprentice has helped them solidify their knowledge as knights. It would also let the apprentice see the IP from a different point of view, solidifying that knowledge for them as well.

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11 Jul 2017 14:34 #290279 by Rosalyn J
I'd be happy to speak with you about Krishnamurti. Regarding your second suggestion, we have the IP team. A group of apprentices, lead by Knights who assist individuals with their work through the IP

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  • Arisaig
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11 Jul 2017 14:37 - 11 Jul 2017 14:47 #290281 by Arisaig
I actually really think Rick D's idea of having the Apprenticeship involve helping the next generation very interesting.

We have the IP team as understaffed. Having Apprentices assist the IP team (as part of the apprenticeship) would easily fix that problem.

Also, it would teach apprentices how to guide, prepping them for taking on Apprentices of their own in the future.
Last edit: 11 Jul 2017 14:47 by Arisaig.

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  • Rick D
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11 Jul 2017 14:48 #290282 by Rick D
Roz,
I know you have already offered to help, and I truly thank you because I am going to need it, but my criticism is more about the clarity of the parameters of the assignment. Everyone says that Krishnamurti is a tough assignment, and maybe it is, but but assignment as spelled out may be part of the problem, and a clearer understanding of what is being asked may make it easier.

Also, I know that there is a team that is working with novices, working through the IP, but my point is that I would like to see it be a compulsory part of the apprenticeship program.

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  • Atticus
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11 Jul 2017 14:56 #290284 by Atticus

Rick D wrote: Everyone says that Krishnamurti is a tough assignment, and maybe it is, but but assignment as spelled out may be part of the problem, and a clearer understanding of what is being asked may make it easier.

I don't disagree. It has been, at least in some cases, a conscious decision to leave the instructions for assignments past the IP somewhat vague in order to give the apprentice or seminarian room to innovate and come up with their own way of engaging with the material. But there is ambiguity, and then there is unintentionally misleading, and if the Krishnamurti is the latter, let's fix that. Thank you for bringing this to light, Rick. :)

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  • JLSpinner
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11 Jul 2017 15:17 #290287 by JLSpinner
I've ran into similar issues. We should be very clear of our expectations for assignments.

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11 Jul 2017 15:37 - 11 Jul 2017 15:41 #290291 by Avalon
Regarding Apprentice Involvement in the IP:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Regarding the Monthly Council Reports:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Regarding IP Completion Before Membership:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Regarding Feedback:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Just a load of random thoughts.

Not all those who wander are lost
Studies Journal | Personal Journal
Last edit: 11 Jul 2017 15:41 by Avalon.
The following user(s) said Thank You: steamboat28, Arisaig

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  • Kyrin Wyldstar
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11 Jul 2017 15:38 - 11 Jul 2017 15:41 #290293 by Kyrin Wyldstar

steamboat28 wrote: One of the problems, Brenna, is that so much goes on out of our sight that we don't really have a way of giving the examples you seek. For example, I was reading a journal entry recently where someone was denied knighthood without giving them pointers on how to fix whatever problems existed. The idea that "we'll know it when we see it" is bunk when it comes to knighthood, in my opinion, and there should at the very least be a rubric of examples to better prepare the wildly disparate teaching methods for their students.

We're in a position where we know things are happening, but we aren't sure exactly what because that transparency we've asked for doesn't exist. Hence the asking.


Hmm wonder whose journal that was?? :P ;)

Your absolutely right though. Information in the form of general guidelines, definitions, processes, procedures and expectations on the AP and IP process (and the seminary for that matter) should be publicly and clearly communicated to the community in an ongoing consistent basis by the council. Beyond that details of any individual journey and that journeys progress need not be necessarily made public but it should at least be clearly and openly communicated by the council to the apprentice

When an apprentice goes through the entire process, gets praise from his knight, goes through the Jedi trials (conducted by the council) and then the final evaluation is simply

"well you have completed the degree but still not a Knight - do more lessons"

Its very confusing and quite frankly kills any motivation to continue. This is a direct result of lack of communication and direct interaction or intervention by the council on behalf of the apprentice. It clearly shows that the council has not spent the time to truly get to know the apprentices they are evaluating enough to give them any sort of valid critique of their work or suggestions for directions forward.

Maybe a halfway point review process needs to be implemented where the council reviews journals and discusses with the Knight and the apprentice progress made and expectations for the second half of the apprenticeship or something like that. This would be a place for the council to get to know the apprentice in question as well as get feedback from the apprentice that will give the council better insight into the apprentices individual path. This will allow the council to give the apprentice and his Knight detailed and valid critiques, suggestions and expectations toward the pursuit of future knighthood.
Last edit: 11 Jul 2017 15:41 by Kyrin Wyldstar.

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  • Connor L.
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11 Jul 2017 15:58 #290298 by Connor L.
Avalon,

Re: Apprentices guiding novices through IP.

Perhaps it would be just as well to have a "quota" of feedback per month. Say that every apprentice needs to send one message of feedback via PM per month (just a random idea, could be changed). That could begin a conversation about the content of the IP.

If a novice disappears, or consistently doesn't respond, then the apprentice could switch to another novice. The knights could assign the quota based on the ratio of active apprentices to novices. (1:2 means sending two messages per month). This could ensure that apprentices remain active (at least once per month... and, I mean, really... if you are doing an apprenticeship here, you should log in at least once a month at the least......). Just spit balling.

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