TOTJO Circle... Lets get this decided...

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13 Feb 2014 16:57 #137836 by Senan
Replied by Senan on topic TOTJO Circle... Lets get this decided...

steamboat28 wrote: Well, seems you're right. Apparently the Coca-Cola logo is always, always, always, white-on-red and never, ever changes. Ever.


Thanks for the sarcasm, but the Coca-Cola logo is a trademark. Since you seem to feel like you are the only expert here, let me be clear.

A trademark, trade mark, or trade-mark[1] is a recognizable sign, design or expression which identifies products or services of a particular source from those of others. The trademark owner can be an individual, business organization, or any legal entity. A trademark may be located on a package, a label, a voucher or on the product itself. For the sake of corporate identity trademarks are also being displayed on company buildings.

As someone who works in a marketing capacity for a worldwide media company with more lawyers than anything else, I can assure you that these things are taken very seriously. You can "graphic design" anything to death, but the trademark is specifically what is legally registered by an entity to separate it from competition.

If you want to see viciously guarded trademarks and copyrights, you only need to look to the National Football League in the U.S.

When TOTJO decides to trademark a logo, that will be the only official one whether we use it exclusively or not. It will be the only legally protected mark in the eyes of the law. Until then, it will remain a point of contention.

Coca-Cola can change the colors and designs in it's marketing, but that doesn't make the entire design a trademarked Coca-Cola logo.

When in doubt, look for the ®

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13 Feb 2014 17:44 #137840 by steamboat28

Senan wrote: ...long post...


Which is why, if you check the other thread I linked earlier, I requested TotJO to register the circle-less logo for trademark purposes as well as the "official" one. To provide them with versatility. #jussayin'

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13 Feb 2014 17:49 #137842 by Akkarin
Replied by Akkarin on topic TOTJO Circle... Lets get this decided...

steamboat28 wrote:

Senan wrote: ...long post...


Which is why, if you check the other thread I linked earlier, I requested TotJO to register the circle-less logo for trademark purposes as well as the "official" one. To provide them with versatility. #jussayin'


Our current trademark isn't registered.

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13 Feb 2014 17:52 #137843 by Br. John
The US trademark filing fee is $800.00.

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13 Feb 2014 17:55 #137844 by steamboat28

Br. John wrote: The US trademark filing fee is $800.00.


I'm putting that in my "Things to Donate Toward" list.
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13 Feb 2014 18:07 #137848 by Br. John

steamboat28 wrote:

Br. John wrote: The US trademark filing fee is $800.00.


I'm putting that in my "Things to Donate Toward" list.


We can and will honor specified donations and account for them. The only proviso is that if we were in danger of losing our domain or internet service special funds could be used if nothing else is available.

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13 Feb 2014 19:58 #137858 by Llama Su
What's in a shape?

I personally find both symbols valid with their own intended purpose, and to use both would be appropriate considering the art of the Ecards and the unity they express and display... The nature of the force is expressed in the art of Ecards because the unity is in the art, the border of nature itself... We have the main symbol, with the circle, it is like the formal symbol, and then we have the informal symbol, E cards (art), etc... I would say they are both official... The one with the circle defines the group, the wholeness, completeness, etc... The one without, defines the individual, The relation of the subjective art and the interconnection of the symbol, and order...

Symbols always get misrepresented, or used and changed to fit a certain agenda... The cross for example, has been abused by Nazi Germany, the "iron cross" as it is called, and then christian groups began using it, unknown how it was affiliated... :woohoo: :sick:

That is my opinion, as I am no authority over the symbol, this is simply how I see it, and understand the symbol.

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13 Feb 2014 20:27 #137859 by Kit

Llama Su wrote: Symbols always get misrepresented, or used and changed to fit a certain agenda... The cross for example, has been abused by Nazi Germany, the "iron cross" as it is called, and then christian groups began using it, unknown how it was affiliated... :woohoo: :sick:


The Iron Cross is a military decoration of honor or valor. You can find it in medieval heraldry all over the place. It is not a symbol that earned its origins in Nazi Germany nor do I think it was Christian in origin as crosses were used before Christianity. As (if I remember right) the swastika isn't Nazi in origin either. Nazi Germany used the Iron Cross as it was intended.

But to keep this more on topic: I like the logo. I like it in the black-and-white. It's simple, it's recognizable, and it's meaningful. I'd say keep the circle. It's a symbol found in many religions in a meaningful way. I think it's a great device to contain the black.
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13 Feb 2014 21:24 #137866 by Ve-Lo-Zi
Replied by Ve-Lo-Zi on topic TOTJO Circle... Lets get this decided...

Kamizu wrote: The Iron Cross is a military decoration of honor or valor. You can find it in medieval heraldry all over the place. It is not a symbol that earned its origins in Nazi Germany nor do I think it was Christian in origin as crosses were used before Christianity. As (if I remember right) the swastika isn't Nazi in origin either. Nazi Germany used the Iron Cross as it was intended.


Absolutely correct. Even if I only look at Germany, the Iron cross was in use long before Nazism in the German military. It's origins lie with the Teutonic Knights of medieval times. The only addition the Nazis added was putting a swastika in the middle but even that isn't the case with all versions of that time period.

The swastika by the way is an ancient symbol in many cultures and represents the sun or the circle of life. It can still be found today for example in a lot of Buddhist temples (for example in Tibet). It's darkly ironic that Hitler used a symbol of light to bring so much death and destruction into the world.

(Sorry for the off-topic)

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13 Feb 2014 22:16 #137876 by Jon
I personally see no reason to change the symbol even to the point that I have a bad feeling even with the thought of doing so. One reason Br.John pointed out is a financial one. Who is going to pay for all of this? Appart of the practical reasons there is an inherent one: this symbol has been with us since the very beginning. It has seen schisms, conflict victory development and generations of Jedi; many different people from all faiths all over the world have put their faith and trust into this symbol; and my esoteric accent tell me that for exactly those reasons this symbol possesses a lot of power. It is has story to tell a Jedi mythos, unparalleled in the Jedi community. Then there is the symbolic value: the contrast and unity of dark and light; the points of the stars which reflect the tenets and teachings.

I also am impressed with and agree with Master Akkarin`s point out this unity being further demonstrated by the bars having the same coloured symbol. This is not about esthetics but about unity and what we represent. I whole heartedly disagree with changing it and agree that this symbol be unified in the bars.

MTFBWY all.

The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.
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