TotJO Logo Design

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31 Jan 2014 22:41 - 31 Jan 2014 23:28 #135886 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic TotJO Logo Design

Jestor wrote: I can see the 5 star....

I can see the 16 star

Now, without the circle, show me the interdependence of dark and light...

I say the circle is important, and belongs...

  1. If this white logo is placed on a black background, there's your interdependence of dark and light.
  2. If you change the logo (i.e., the two stars) to black, and put it on a white letterhead, there's your interdependence of dark and light.
  3. If you have a dark red header bar on the website, and the logo is white, there's your interdependence of dark and light.
  4. If I paint the logo in yellow on a green car, there's my interdependence of "dark" and "light".

None of those inherently require the circle. The circle just makes it look prettier if you want to put a white star on a white background. It's damn pretty, and my preferred method of displaying the logo, but it's not needed to fulfill the requirements of the "meaning."

**EDIT** - I'm not sure how long the editing window on posts is, but if you give me a little time to finish the IP lesson I'm working on first, I'll give visual samples of each of these (and more) examples I've given above.

Here's the original (Example 1):
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Here's the inverted color scheme without the circle (Example 2):
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Here's one that approximates the header (with a more vibrant red) (Example 3):
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Here's the green-and-yellow car design (Example 4):
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


And here are three based on my school colors--

Elementary School:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

High School:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

and College:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


As long as the contrast between the logo and the background is kept, the interplay of light and dark is still seen in the negative space of the design, and doesn't need to be explicitly stated with a circle. It is not wrong to display the logo in the circle, it just isn't necessary all the time.
Last edit: 31 Jan 2014 23:28 by steamboat28.
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01 Feb 2014 03:22 #135908 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic TotJO Logo Design
The body of the background is not the TOTJO symbol...

Using your green/yellow example, the green car is not a part of the symbol....

Yet, now the whole thing is, and it becomes washed out...

Do as you like, I appreciate the art, but, unless Br. John corrects me, or I find evidence in the archives, I'm telling you the circle is important, as it separates the entire symbol from the background...

The balance is gone... There is more green than yellow....

The percentages of dark to light may not be 50/50, but its nowhere close with the circle gone...

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter
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01 Feb 2014 03:42 - 01 Feb 2014 03:46 #135913 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic TotJO Logo Design

Jestor wrote: The body of the background is not the TOTJO symbol...

Using your green/yellow example, the green car is not a part of the symbol....


That's exactly what I'm saying, actually. The interplay of dark and light, from a graphics and artistic perception, is about the interplay of positive and negative space (which, honestly, i think makes a more profound philosophical statement, personally) and less about the actual colors, I think.

Also, if you said the circle was necessary. then questions will arise about whether or not it has a border, and how thick the border is, and/or you're stuck with that color combination (black/white), which means that the lovely art 666 did that we enjoy (the black/gold) is good, but it's not the logo.

Furthermore, I love the circle for aesthetic purposes (and vastly prefer to use it), but I object to it as a philosophical representation. In religious/spiritual/esoteric/etc. symbolism (and symbology, though the two are different), circles are seen as limiters. Circles are typically seen as spiritual boundaries, dividing what's inside them from what's outside them. This could take many forms--in our case, it could be misinterpreted to be limiting the power of the Force, set boundaries on an infinite universe, project an "us v. them" ideology to non-members rather than our actual inclusive nature--and I don't think any of those are really representative of Jediism.

that said, these are just my opinions.
Last edit: 01 Feb 2014 03:46 by steamboat28.

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01 Feb 2014 04:08 #135914 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic TotJO Logo Design
And, that is my point...

The circle separates the symbol, from the car...

And correct, I've never considered the black/gold as the symbol...

It is just an artistic interpretation...

One I happen to like...

Also, just my opinion....

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

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01 Feb 2014 04:35 #135915 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic TotJO Logo Design
The circle is part of the symbol.

Founder of The Order
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01 Feb 2014 05:29 - 01 Feb 2014 05:33 #135917 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic TotJO Logo Design

Br. John wrote: The circle is part of the symbol.


Sweet, an official answer! I do have a few questions about this, though:
  • Can we continue to use it without the circle in unofficial formats, such as the header bar?
  • What do we do when the black circle goes on a dark background?
    • Do we invert the colors?
      • If so, is it still the same symbol?
      • If not, must we still draw the circle?
    • Do we give it a border?
      • If so, does the border become part of the logo?
      • How thick should the border be in relation to the rest of the circle?
    • Do we ignore it, or assume it's there, even if we can't see it?
  • How do we handle it if it's monochrome? (true monochrome, only one color, not contrasting, like, if we were embossing it, or making paper cutouts, or what-have-you) Do we circle back to the border questions?

I'm all for the official verdict on this, but it does raise some other interesting design questions, in my opinion. :)
Last edit: 01 Feb 2014 05:33 by steamboat28.

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01 Feb 2014 05:40 #135919 by Wescli Wardest
Replied by Wescli Wardest on topic TotJO Logo Design

Jestor wrote: The circle separates the symbol, from the car...


I can live with that. =D

It's not just the contrast but the separation from the object that is being achieved keeping the emblem sacred from a common item. Cool. :D

Monastic Order of Knights
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01 Feb 2014 05:50 #135922 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic TotJO Logo Design
There's all sorts of artistic interpretations. There's nothing wrong with them and much to be said for them. The Councillor's badge does not even use the official logo and neither does the banner at the top of this webpage. They're still our logo. I'm only saying the original concept was in a circle. If it's against a black background there can be a white circle to set it off thick enough to see but not so wide as to look bad.

Founder of The Order
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01 Feb 2014 05:54 #135923 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic TotJO Logo Design

Br. John wrote: There's all sorts of artistic interpretations. There's nothing wrong with them and much to be said for them. The Councillor's badge does not even use the official logo and neither does the banner at the top of this webpage. They're still our logo. I'm only saying the original concept was in a circle. If it's against a black background there can be a white circle to set it off thick enough to see but not so wide as to look bad.


Awesome. Thanks for the input! :D

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02 Feb 2014 00:08 #135997 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic TotJO Logo Design

steamboat28 wrote:

Br. John wrote: The circle is part of the symbol.


Sweet, an official answer!


What, my answer wasn't good enough?

"I get no respect" ~Rodney Dangerfield~

:lol:..

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter
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