Correctly placing responsibility for bullying

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8 years 5 months ago #203939 by Kit
I'm not saying it's easy or foolproof. And I'm not expecting my daughter's life to be as safe as if she was living in a bubble haha. If people (kids included) don't follow the rules for the sake of the rules, then the rules need to have consequences suitable to the infraction. Even if that's calling home and letting the parents know. But repeated problems call for something more. And big problems call for action. As far as proof, words bruise as deeply as fists without the physical marks on the skin. I don't think someone should be expelled just because someone ran up to a teacher and said they were bullying them, but it shouldn't be discounted out-of-hand either.

Sure kids will smarten up and figure out how to get away with things. That's the way kids are. I remember doing that. I'm not saying there's a perfect system or a perfect way to instigate it. I just think that the schools do bear some responsibility to the students' wellbeing.
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8 years 5 months ago #203942 by Kit
I would love to see a campaign on teaching parents about what they can do against their own children doing the bullying as well as what they can do to teach their children to be more.... resiliant (oh I hate that word lol) (in addition to the campaigns about what to do when you are/have seen bullying)

...but I also think of how many times I've heard "Oh my dooblybaby is innocent! He would never do such a thing! Look at this face! How could a face like this do anything bad?!" *snort*
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8 years 5 months ago - 8 years 5 months ago #203959 by Adder
It's a jungle out there in the school yard (and beyond unfortunately), we all must be vigilant that things do not go too far, but people (kids) need some room to test out things, shape themselves and grow up. I remember one kid who visited our house when I was about 10, he played it up to the adults like a charm, they all loved him in some strange adoring way (probably deliberate now looking back), but as soon as they werent in the room went feral, outright unrestrainted violence..... some people are just not willing to improve themselves at that point in time. The wrong thing in that case seemed to be to over compensate and put more love into him, it might have been the predominate 'natural' theory at the time, but it just seemed to play to developing his skills as a sociopath. I think loving compassion is a good basis, but sometimes people need to be stopped and shown the cost of their actions to others in terms they themselves can understand and really comprehend - this is both a teacher and parents job, but should be more on the parent IMO, and failing that perhaps even the medical community - which introduces a whole new counter-productive dynamic (unless its real bad). I don't have kids though so its just my view from when I was a kid.

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Last edit: 8 years 5 months ago by Adder.
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8 years 5 months ago - 8 years 5 months ago #204038 by OB1Shinobi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicides_which_have_been_attributed_to_bullying

i think its important to acknowledge how really serious bullying is in our era

personally id like to see more on everyones part to teach children how to handle themselves when they are bullied - imo every parent is responsible for that with every child, and i would say every school needs to be dedicated to it as an institution

when i was bullied i never told any adults - not parents and not teachers

the last thing i wanted was to be even more embarrassed by telling someone, and also make the problem worse (as i perceived it) by becoming a snitch

http://www.janetlansbury.com/2012/01/4-ways-to-raise-children-with-social-intelligence/

http://www.helpguide.org/articles/abuse/dealing-with-bullying.htm

People are complicated.
Last edit: 8 years 5 months ago by OB1Shinobi.
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8 years 5 months ago #204039 by
I used to be a substitute teacher for several years and I saw plenty of bullying. On my way out of the school one day after dismisal, I noticed a whiteboard in the hallway covered in homophobic slurs about one particular student. As I was erasing it, I remembered pointing it out to another teacher earlier in the day and being given the assurance that it would be dealt with. Well it wasn't. A whiteboard sat in a busy hallway covered in homophobic insults at a student for an ENTIRE day and not one teacher or student did anything about it. That's really terrible.

I tried to stop as many instances of bullying as I could as a substitute, but the main problem I faced was that the full-time teachers didn't take me seriously. In a way, the substitute teachers were bullied as much as the students! For example, I went to eat lunch in the teacher's break room one day and noticed most of the spots at the table were taken. I was going to pull an extra chair over to sit by them and one teacher goes "Oh, most subs normally eat in the classroom." After some ackward moments and stares, I just left and went to eat in the classroom because I didn't feel like dealing with their attitute.

Another sub I knew faced similar problems. This sweet middle aged lady had been a substitute for the school for decades and was also their permanent study hall monitor. The school often had her grade papers and they gave her a "place" to grade them in. It was literally a broom closet. I kid you not. She sat at an old broken desk surrounded by mops, office supplies, and cleaning chemicals. One day the principal was giving a tour of the school to some prospective parents who were thinking about sending their kid there. As they were walking and talking, the principal noticed the broom closet door open with the poor substitute in there working away. He kicked the door shut in the subs face as he walked by so that the parents would not see that the school was making subs work in broom closets. He was a deceitful SOB. And from where I was standing in the hallway, I could see the substitute's hurt expression as the door was closing on her. As substitutes, we don't have union support in these situtations like a FT teacher would.

I have other stories of full time teachers publicly shaming substitutes (who, mind you, make about $60 per day on the 2-3 days a week that them might get called in). But I agree with many here that the schools could do way more to address bullying. It starts with the STAFF not being bullies themselves.

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8 years 5 months ago #204064 by
Wow, it appears that the mentality of the students rubs off on the teachers and vice versa. About the adult bullies, I believe the mentality is too far built into their brain to change unless called out in private as public would only incite an over dramatic public display. Plus, I do believe in the use of the chain of command, one positive I learned from the military. If adult bullying is taking place, notify the next rung in the ladder. If nothing happens, go the next above them and make sure it's in writing. If it's not on paper it doesn't exist. There will always be a stigma about snitching or ratting, you know who uses that? Bullies. Nobody owes them a damn thing and the chain must hold their ranks accountable.

About the children, it is a jungle. Teachers are overworked and underpaid, probably why they bully others for that little ego fix. I believe that positive aspects need to be rewarded in public with real rewards. As far as their homelife, how offer are both parents home to teach them right from wrong. If I were a parent, hope to be someday, and my wife and I were working long hours, I would consider utilizing youth programs that promote well-being and respect. As cliche as it is, children must learn to do good for the sake of doing good and not out of fear of punishment. Also of all things, courage must be the most important lesson. For the love of God, don't let that go unspoken.

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8 years 5 months ago #204076 by RyuJin
as the saying goes: "praise in public, punish in private"

reward desired behavior for all to see....punish undesired behavior for none to see....but always make certain that all know there are consequences for wrong doing...

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J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)

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8 years 5 months ago #204078 by

RyuJin wrote: as the saying goes: "praise in public, punish in private"

reward desired behavior for all to see....punish undesired behavior for none to see....but always make certain that all know there are consequences for wrong doing...


In "The Art of War" Sun Tzu says that you should be sure to reward and punish equally and do both publicly.

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8 years 5 months ago #204081 by RyuJin
the drawback to that approach is that it can create ill feeling in the punished and the unrewarded...this ill feeling can lead to the creation of enemies and destruction....

knowing whom you're dealing with is the best way to know which approach to take...

i do agree though that reward and punishment should be of equal value to the act being rewarded or punished...

and one should not only reward or only punish...only rewarding gives the impression of picking favorites, only punishing gives the impression of being a tyrant.....

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J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
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8 years 5 months ago - 8 years 5 months ago #204114 by
In nature it is survival of the fittest. You get bullied out of your territory, breeding partners and even food you obtain. Humans are part on nature like it or not. It is fist fights and teasing in school and then war and economic sanctions Latter. You simply can't avoid bullying so I have a couple of questions.

1. Is bulling wrong? Yer it sucks to be the target (can lead to death) but it is evolutions way to ensure strong genetic blood lines and so the strongest chance for life. In humans fat, handicapped, week, dumb, ugly and homosexual people are mostly the targets and that isn't a suprise given evolutions goals. Evolution simply tries to bully them into compliance. Is evolution wrong? Is bulling wrong?

2. When do you want people to learn to deal with bulling? Bulling is instinctive behaviour and simply can't be avoided. Do you want to learn to deal with it as early as possible when the stakes are small or defer it to latter in life where the stakes are much higher?

3. Who do you want to raise your child? Do you want the government to micro manage the development of your child in the way that they see fit? It certainly removes any burden from parents and governments just love to govern. They will take all the power you are willing to given them.

Edit: So sorry about the poor grammar. I should really ban myself from using my phone to write posts. Of course if you tease me about it I might be bullied into better grammar. :)
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