Beyond Carnism and towards Rational, Authentic Food Choices

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0VrZPBskpg#t=457

I don't find other animals disgusting, and will quite happily eat them. Similarly, golden retrievers will befriend animals from other species (such as humans), and still eat a lot of meat.

Besides, if we want to be logical about it, or values of compassion, justice and authenticity would treat plants equally to animals. Her sentiocentrist views are just like ordinary racism.

my pitbull's father was best buds with a rabbit and a cat...animals don't discriminate in regards to friends and food...they can love one cat and eat another...humans, no matter how "evolved" we perceive ourselves to be are still animals...

speaking of eating dogs....remember that walking dead episode a few weeks ago... :evil:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/2y_qk53PQoM

ren wrote: Besides, if we want to be logical about it, or values of compassion, justice and authenticity would treat plants equally to animals.

This reminds me of a poster I saw once with Poison Ivy (as in the Batman villian) on it and it said "Eating plants is murder." :laugh:

A lot of different opinions about eating meat around but I like her attempt to produce the talk from mindfulness about action. I tend to agree with her, and don't think plant's are the same thing if they don't have a neural plexus and associated processing capabilities to house even a rudimentary sentience. Instead plant actions seemingly being more like a direct chemical and electrical signalling in response to stimulus.

in any case...nothing will change me from eating meat. my dietary needs require animal protein...i've tried vegetarian/vegan...all it did was make me physically weak...occasionally i'll go a couple of days without meat just to see what happens, i eat other sources of higher amounts of protein and still end up feeling weaker...sometimes it gets so bad i barely have the strength to stand, and still feel hungry despite having a full stomach...the moment i eat some meat the hunger is sated and i feel my strength return...

they could discover a meat free diet that causes immortality and i'll still eat meat....just because one person doesn't feel comfortable about the methods, doesn't mean they have the moral high ground to tell others they're wrong...

generally i don't buy meat from the grocery store because it's of lesser quality than from the local butcher...and the meat of highest quality is from freshly killed (hunted) animals...being part native american, hunting is a spiritual experience for me...

ren wrote: Similarly, golden retrievers will befriend animals from other species (such as humans), and still eat a lot of meat.

Not entirely sure what you mean by that.

ren wrote: Besides, if we want to be logical about it, or values of compassion, justice and authenticity would treat plants equally to animals. Her sentiocentrist views are just like ordinary racism.

Her views are not sentiocentrist. If by sentiocentrist you mean "things that are self-aware" then nearly all animals don't qualify- certainly not birds or fish. Her views are suffer-centric. Her argument is that untold suffering is inflicted upon billions of animals a year and if one were compassionate then one would consider such suffering before making a decision about whether to eat meat.

Plants do not suffer pain, that is a fallacy of false comparison.

If plants could somehow feel something which might perhaps be pain-like then you would also have to demonstrate that they are aware of it. Even if plants could feel some modicum of pain (something you would have to prove) then why should we think that this pain is anyway near as great as the pain felt by animals? This also fails to take into account that the animals themselves are already eating plants and are not particularly efficient at doing so requiring us to "slaughter" more plants to feed the animals which we then slaughter to feed ourselves. Cut the animals out and far fewer plants would have to be "slaughtered" reducing aggregate suffering - which was the whole point of her presentation.

generally i don't buy meat from the grocery store because it's of lesser quality than from the local butcher...and the meat of highest quality is from freshly killed (hunted) animals...being part native american, hunting is a spiritual experience for me...

And that's the whole point of her talk, the consumption of meat can be done in a way which causes the least amount of stress and suffering to the animals involved.

It's a false dichotomy to think we have to choose between eating meat today and giving it up entirely tomorrow. Climbing a mountain isn't done in a single step, it's a gradual process which begins, as she said, with raising awareness.


As for myself apart from the occasional guilty pizza/chinese food eating I've been mostly vegetarian for the last seven months. I'm tempted by going vegan but I'll have to see with time.

Well we do get a lot of energy from fats... so eating meat would provide both the protein and fat which constitute a lot of what powers us along. Though the proteins can be gotten from non-meat sources. It's probably not too healthy to get used to using animal fats as a power source though, as fat's can accumulate toxin's and things like histamine from the animal's life experience. I guess it would require lots of dairy, eggs and nut's to compensate though. I cannot imagine a pure vegen experience, it sounds scary to me to exclude dairy and egg's as well LOL
:blink:
I also think it can take a fair bit of time for the body to adjust to the different diet, as I changed my diet for other reasons (having no choice) I had to stick with it. I haven't had red meat in over a year I think (when was that last pizza!?)! Sorry, am getting offoptic.

acckkk no red meat in over a year?....i'd have collapsed of starvation by now...i haven't had a significant amount of meat in 3 days and feel it...ate a whole large pizza and still feel hungry...gonna hafta rustle up some meat real soon here to get rid of the shakes

Her views are not sentiocentrist. If by sentiocentrist you mean "things that are self-aware" then nearly all animals don't qualify- certainly not birds or fish. Her views are suffer-centric. Her argument is that untold suffering is inflicted upon billions of animals a year and if one were compassionate then one would consider such suffering before making a decision about whether to eat meat.

Plants do not suffer pain, that is a fallacy of false comparison.

I am not comparing plants to animals. I am complaining about people like her (and you) who do so. I think both plants and animals are alive and worth it, and consume them based on their value as food, not on whether they share many or few characteristics with me.

You might want to take a break from those anthropocentric lectures you go to and have a bite of the first "jedi believe" line.