5 rights women have that men don't

ren wrote:

Brenna wrote:

ren wrote: Something happens therefore something has caused it. We don't like the idea that women can be mental for no reason whatsoever.

No wonder you get annoyed with women :lol: We always have a reason, whether you understand what it is or not .

That's strange because the top reason given by the majority of domestic abusers (women) is "I thought it was the only way to get through to him" (according to a 1994 study in the UK). I think I'd rather blame PMS if i were a woman, it's a guaranteed excuse: to a man it's the equivalent having our willie cut off every month, with a week's wait for cauterization. Definitely a valid reason to be pissy imo.

Domestic abuse of men in the UK since 2006 has been between 37 and 45% so not the majority. But, close enough to half that I think its clear that its not a gender issue. Its an angry, emotionally unstable people issue. Perhaps if we started approaching it from that perspective, we might get somewhere with finding solutions.

I was thinking about that the other day, because while PMS is an often used waiver on both sides, its hardly an excuse for violence, or bad behaviour. And I don't think domestic violence of any sort really has an excuse.

Abusers of either gender never start with violence, it escalates to that. Pity we cant make early relationship counselling mandatory :laugh: Or teach kids better communication skills within relationships. I dunno. I doubt there's a simple answer. Complicated issue with so many facets.

Brenna wrote: ...Pity we cant make early relationship counselling mandatory :laugh: ...

It's not "mandatory" but the county we got married in would waive the license fees if we went to a free marriage class first. I thought that was a pretty cool idea!

in my experience the vast majority of instances in which people lash out or feel compelled to assert domination towards someone that they do actually care for, it is because they feel threatened at some level

95% of the time its really just that simple

in my life i have been pretty harshly treated at times by both males and females and always when i could see that it was from someone who genuinely cared for me i was eventually able to trace back the events and see that they were reacting to patterns they had developed to protect themselves from some kind of threat

i think the NLP presupposition "every behavior began with a positive intention" is appropriate as a general first step towards any kind of behavior change

OB1Shinobi wrote: in my experience the vast majority of instances in which people lash out or feel compelled to assert domination towards someone that they do actually care for, it is because they feel threatened at some level

95% of the time its really just that simple

in my life i have been pretty harshly treated at times by both males and females and always when i could see that it was from someone who genuinely cared for me i was eventually able to trace back the events and see that they were reacting to patterns they had developed to protect themselves from some kind of threat

i think the NLP presupposition "every behavior began with a positive intention" is appropriate as a general first step towards any kind of behavior change

Threatened? Perhaps. I think it depends on the people and the situations. Personally I would say its the end result of frustration, whether its (as Ren said) and inability to he heard or "get through" or simply being unable to make positive change to the circumstances. Whether its relationship expectations not being met, environmental factors (like financial concerns) or simply regular miscommunication.

While I appreciate the NLP aspect that you've mentioned, I don't believe that every behaviour has a positive start, only that it escalates. For example, someone with a controlling personality doesn't start out by physically harming their spouse in order to solicit the desired behaviour. It normally starts off with small verbal and emotional manipulations that the spouse is more likely to let slide. Controlling behaviour is never a positive intention.

Because most Men or the stereotypical "religious" male fears the feminine aspects, things to do with the reflection of the Sun - The Moon, or is told to fear these aspects, Men do all they can to reject the women inside of themselves. Men deny their "wholeness" by denying their female, feminine, emotional and heart centered self. Men are taught (generally) that emotions are bad and since women are "emotional", then women are bad or need to be controlled. And I find that women are instructed to "hate" men for various of other reasons. In the end, we Love/Hate each other in our attempts to have union with each other.

We are born into a body that has a form and that form has predisposed aspects - Male or Female (Yes I know that more various exist, but I am writing about the generic concept). However, our spirit nature is whole and encompasses both the masculine logic and the feminine emotions - and more.

In the end, we need to reconcile our "hatred" of the sexes in order to heal ourselves and the world that we live in. Until this "battle of the sexes" stops, will we only know "hate" and threads like this will exist.

Are threads like this helpful? Do these types of conversations bring us to greater understanding of each other? Does it heal the ancestral wounds caused by such distinctions? Does it allow us to clear our field so we can be better Jedi?

Ultimately, what is the purpose of this thread?

[quote=
Are threads like this helpful? Do these types of conversations bring us to greater understanding of each other? Does it heal the ancestral wounds caused by such distinctions? Does it allow us to clear our field so we can be better Jedi?

Ultimately, what is the purpose of this thread?[/quote]

Rarely do I see someone change their opinion here, but maybe I'm just not seeing it. I do see a lot of tolerance and discussion, though.

@brenna
i dig it
what im refering to is the original discovery of the behavior

which would likely have been before the couple even met

its basically the autopilot/script behavior you mentioned in the STUPID/TRUTH thread

except the benefit of the doubt is given to everybody based on the accompanying presupposition "we are all doing the best we can with the internal resources we have"
from this perspective, dysfunctional and inappropriate behavior is seen to be the result of applying an old solution to a new circumstance

for instance a person who feels the need to control all the time

i would have to see a specific instance to be able to offer a specific response but IN GENERAL people seek to control because they have had the experience of having been made to suffer for their lack of control

or more accurately
somwhere along the line they were convinced that it was appropriate for them to assume control

and usually these things happened with the intent of preservation - first SELF preservation but also preservation of things outside of but imortant to the self, such as the marriage

im not defending abuse

and i admit that you give an example of the person who is really just acting out in frusteration is more difficult to place
but
if we give the benefit of the doubt to this one lady who is always saying something demeaning about men

and instead of saying "shes just a mean man hater"
and instead say "she lashes out because its the most effective mechanism she relates to at the internal level for expressing her frustration and preserving her own sense of internal integrity"

then we open the door for the possibility that she would change her behavior if she could be lead to the ability to relate to a more effectige mechanism

by giving her the benefit of the doubt that she constantly demeans and insults men because she feels inadequate and insecure and/or is stuck in a script where demeaning men is the most workable tools she understands for preserving her own sense of well being

then we ALL have the opportunity to facilitate change, both with each other and in ourselves, becaus this type of thinking applies equally to us all

where to just say she hates men and shes a snow queen leaves the situation stuck in the old script and therefore makes change seem impossible

lastly
im no psychogist
ive watched a few youtube videos and downloaded a couple PDF's on NLP and read a few books here and there but in case im presenting myself as if i think im an expert on behavior change in general i want to correct that

im excited to hear from others who are also genuinely interested in greater understanding of what makes us tick as people and i at least tell myself im open to new views

baru wrote: Because most Men or the stereotypical "religious" male fears the feminine aspects, things to do with the reflection of the Sun - The Moon, or is told to fear these aspects, Men do all they can to reject the women inside of themselves. Men deny their "wholeness" by denying their female, feminine, emotional and heart centered self. Men are taught (generally) that emotions are bad and since women are "emotional", then women are bad or need to be controlled. And I find that women are instructed to "hate" men for various of other reasons. In the end, we Love/Hate each other in our attempts to have union with each other.

We are born into a body that has a form and that form has predisposed aspects - Male or Female (Yes I know that more various exist, but I am writing about the generic concept). However, our spirit nature is whole and encompasses both the masculine logic and the feminine emotions - and more.

In the end, we need to reconcile our "hatred" of the sexes in order to heal ourselves and the world that we live in. Until this "battle of the sexes" stops, will we only know "hate" and threads like this will exist.

Are threads like this helpful? Do these types of conversations bring us to greater understanding of each other? Does it heal the ancestral wounds caused by such distinctions? Does it allow us to clear our field so we can be better Jedi? za

Ultimately, what is the purpose of this thread?

i am genuinely interested in growing
i engage in these conversations because i have things that ive learned in my life which i know can benefit someone else and because i know that there are other people adound me who have the puzzle pieces that i am missing

when i talk i do my best to be completely honest about everything i say and i give the benefit of the doubt that the majority of others are as well

and that at some level we have these conversations because we want to be the best that we are capable of being

even those who dont change and who refuse others are usually imo doing so because they/we believe that its for their/our best interesnt for being the best of ourselves

so will this thread particular make any difference for any of us?

it depends on how open we can be and how safe we can feel in being open and in how directly into our own motives we are capable of looking

OB1Shinobi wrote: @brenna
i dig it
what im refering to is the original discovery of the behavior

which would likely have been before the couple even met

its basically the autopilot/script behavior you mentioned in the STUPID/TRUTH thread

except the benefit of the doubt is given to everybody based on the accompanying presupposition "we are all doing the best we can with the internal resources we have"
from this perspective, dysfunctional and inappropriate behavior is seen to be the result of applying an old solution to a new circumstance

and usually these things happened with the intent of preservation - first SELF preservation

YES

OB1Shinobi wrote: lastly
im no psychogist
ive watched a few youtube videos and downloaded a couple PDF's on NLP and read a few books here and there but in case im presenting myself as if i think im an expert on behavior change in general i want to correct that

I'd say it sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on it

OK OK i get it and youre right there are some people who are just plain selfish and they know it and they choose to stay that way

i say bump them into traffic but someone more rational might just do well to leave that person

i really dont include such people in my inventory of interaction because theres no "inter" to the action
if someone shows themself to be unconcerned with anyone elses well being then i do whatever i can do to remove their influence from my circumstance

but again i see your point and i concede