Britain to get a school for gay/bi/transgender students

ghost dog wrote:

ghost dog wrote: or people could just stop being hateful to whatever they do not identify as the "us." people out in the world, just to be clear.

but this, of course, is not going to happen. unless aliens intervene that is.

alien intervention would not work
because
we would see them as different and make them stay in their own little special "alien schools"
so we didnt catch their germs
or hurt their poor frail little bones

They should separate boys and girls again. Scientifically proven to be better for everyone. I don't know if the same would be true if segregation also occurred between homos and heteros, but surely that's worth a try. one obvious problem with it would be pressure on students to fit in a category even more. When I went to school displays of sexuality weren't allowed so we'd escape and get our fix elsewhere

http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-37-spring-2010/feature/gender-segregation-separate-effective

Not negating your argument, Ren, Just thought I'd share an article that talks about what you are speaking on.

I'm not sure what I think about gender separation (if you did that, based on this article's explanation of why it is a good idea, would you need to judge gender by physical attributes or by what the individual perceives themselves as? Or would the learning capabilities still be the same of their physical gender types?). Something I'm a bit curious about now.

The only thing that I would think is a better method of teaching people is engaging in classes aimed at teaching in one of the three types of learning styles (you can find what yours is here http://www.educationplanner.org/students/self-assessments/learning-styles-quiz.shtml ).

disclaimer: I'm a white, cisgendered, heterosexual, Christian male, raised in the American South, who swears that being bullied in school (while a terrible experience) made him a better person. From the end of these italics, your viewpoints and mine are almost guaranteed to vary wildly.

I don't think this is a good idea.

I agree that LGBTQA+ folk, especially teens, need safe places and safe spaces. I think, however, that those places and spaces woudl actually serve that particular subset of humanity best by being non-institutions. Private clubs, arcades, pizza joints, whatever after-school-teen-show-hangout-esque thing you want, might work a bit better for multiple reasons.

Primarily, I feel that school should be a place in which learning occurs. Granted, most of what you learn in school isn't taught in the classroom, but it is still primarily a learning environment. It cannot--nor should it, in some cases--shield students from social interaction. It can try. It can make rules. It can enforce dress codes, or crack down, or say "zero tolerance" on all its flyers, but there isn't enough Big Brother technology or enough security guards to enforce those kinds of rules consistently. And, by doing so, they are diverting funds and time and expertise away from learning, which is already a major issue for this generation.

After spending the day in a social pool of that nature, which is almost invariably stressful and harmful, a respite in the form of a non-institutional social safe-zone might help mitigate some of the stresses of the day. Perhaps it could offer after-school tutoring, but I can also see a need or a space for volunteers of a counselor-ish nature to help the students learn to cope with their specific daily issues a bit better.

Institutionalizing such a schism though, unless it's a solely private school, is asking for all kinds of trouble. Some will see it as a step backward (segregation), and some will see it as the intolerant's equivalent of fish in a barrel (congregating a portion of the community in one space). Some will see it as special treatment and others a social injustice. And I can't imagine the bullying outside the schoolhouse would be any easier if people knew you went there. In America, actually, it would probably make it a lot worse.

I just don't see this as a solution that will help anybody. It seems to have a lot in common with communism--it looks like a great idea on paper, but I think human nature will make sure this goes over like the Hindenberg.

Edan wrote:

V-Tog wrote: It's a concerning idea for SO many reasons... :dry:

Surely if they took the enormous amount of money that would presumably get poured into the new school, and used it to put better support in place for LGBT kids in schools across Manchester, that would be a much better way to help?

Those were my thoughts... you separate children like that and you risk stigmatising them, which is the opposite of what needs to be happening. Education to all pupils is a better way forward I think.

I'm transgender, and lesbian, and I was also separated from the "normal" student population as a child, although that was for being diagnosed with attention deficit disorder. The idea seems nice... to have a safe space to learn where other students share the same social experiences as you. It sounds like it would reduce the feeling of alienation. But when I was separated from other students and placed in special courses for students with "learning disabilities", the long term effect was that I felt more alienated, not less. By fifth grade, when my teachers deemed me ready to join the mainstream student population, I was already settled into the idea that I would always be removed from normalcy, and I was extremely anxious about joining with other students.

It also sounds like the kind of political decision that would appease bigoted parents ("Why don't they just put all those [insert LGBTQIAA slurs here]'s in their own school, why do they have to force their perverted 'lifestyle' choices onto my child?")

I think what LGBTQIAA and hetero-cisgender students alike need is for the LGBTQIAA students to be normalized. This is a joint cause, it has to take place in the media, where children derive their heroes from, and it has to take place in daily life, and in the minds of older-generation, conservative people who do not yet fully understand the issues.

So for what it's worth, as a transbian who has felt what it's like to be removed from other children and treated differently, I agree wholeheartedly with the above comments.

The money should instead go to educating the educators on LGBTQIAA issues, and to holding awareness-raising events. Schools could put some money into hiring a guest speaker from the LGBTQIAA community to come hold an event for students, for example. Energy and money should be focused on providing a more positive learning environment for all students alike, with an emphasis on celebrating diversity. I think this is the most harmonious approach for everyone.

Alethea Thompson wrote: http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-37-spring-2010/feature/gender-segregation-separate-effective

Not negating your argument, Ren, Just thought I'd share an article that talks about what you are speaking on.

I'm not sure what I think about gender separation (if you did that, based on this article's explanation of why it is a good idea, would you need to judge gender by physical attributes or by what the individual perceives themselves as? Or would the learning capabilities still be the same of their physical gender types?). Something I'm a bit curious about now.

The only thing that I would think is a better method of teaching people is engaging in classes aimed at teaching in one of the three types of learning styles (you can find what yours is here http://www.educationplanner.org/students/self-assessments/learning-styles-quiz.shtml ).

This stuff just sounds like douchebaggery to me, and is in no way related to what i was talking about. This being said the situation in the US probably is different and separation may not be needed, or needed for different reasons. I've looked around for english language info on this and what is heavily documented in other languages is completely absent in english.

what the individual perceives themselves as

I decided not to care in the slightest what people perceive themselves as. I care about what I see. If I see two legs, you're two legged, whether you think you have one or three. If my eyes deceive me, so be it. So far they've proven most reliable. I leave the pseudo-thinkers to their pseudo-thoughts.

Oh? So you did not say that separating males and females in school has been scientifically proven to be better for both parties?

You never said what scientific proof, above is an article talking about what people have discovered as a result of separating males and females in school and how it is perceived to be better. It's EXACTLY what you were talking about. You just failed to provide any thing supporting your views.

If you've got something else, I'd love to see it.

ren wrote:

Alethea Thompson wrote: http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-37-spring-2010/feature/gender-segregation-separate-effective

Not negating your argument, Ren, Just thought I'd share an article that talks about what you are speaking on.

I'm not sure what I think about gender separation (if you did that, based on this article's explanation of why it is a good idea, would you need to judge gender by physical attributes or by what the individual perceives themselves as? Or would the learning capabilities still be the same of their physical gender types?). Something I'm a bit curious about now.

The only thing that I would think is a better method of teaching people is engaging in classes aimed at teaching in one of the three types of learning styles (you can find what yours is here http://www.educationplanner.org/students/self-assessments/learning-styles-quiz.shtml ).

This stuff just sounds like douchebaggery to me, and is in no way related to what i was talking about. This being said the situation in the US probably is different and separation may not be needed, or needed for different reasons. I've looked around for english language info on this and what is heavily documented in other languages is completely absent in english.

what the individual perceives themselves as

I decided not to care in the slightest what people perceive themselves as. I care about what I see. If I see two legs, you're two legged, whether you think you have one or three. If my eyes deceive me, so be it. So far they've proven most reliable. I leave the pseudo-thinkers to their pseudo-thoughts.

"Your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them."

You should open your mind and accept that the assumptions you were probably raised in were never true for all people.

Recently, a fellow transsexual woman I met in a Facebook group was arrested for marijuana possession. Rather than place her in a female cell block, the jail guards placed her in with the males. She demanded again and again to be placed with the females, where she would feel safe. She even pointed out to them that her gender had legally been changed. The guards told her, "the only
proof we need of your gender is what we see between your legs."

While in jail her feminine appearance made her a target for rape threats from the male inmates, and as a rape survivor she was psychologically traumatized by the experience.

So your simple, gender binary, one-size-fits-all solution does not truly fit all, you see. How about instead of your eyes, when dealing with matters that affect people's health, you choose a more reliable sense to trust in, such as empathy?

Alethea Thompson wrote: Oh? So you did not say that separating males and females in school has been scientifically proven to be better for both parties?

You never said what scientific proof, above is an article talking about what people have discovered as a result of separating males and females in school and how it is perceived to be better. It's EXACTLY what you were talking about. You just failed to provide any thing supporting your views.

If you've got something else, I'd love to see it.

If you insist, this document cites many sources and offers a very balanced view to the argument. http://back.ac-rennes.fr/orient/egalchanc/rapmixite22103.pdf

Mica wrote:

ren wrote:

Alethea Thompson wrote: http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-37-spring-2010/feature/gender-segregation-separate-effective

Not negating your argument, Ren, Just thought I'd share an article that talks about what you are speaking on.

I'm not sure what I think about gender separation (if you did that, based on this article's explanation of why it is a good idea, would you need to judge gender by physical attributes or by what the individual perceives themselves as? Or would the learning capabilities still be the same of their physical gender types?). Something I'm a bit curious about now.

The only thing that I would think is a better method of teaching people is engaging in classes aimed at teaching in one of the three types of learning styles (you can find what yours is here http://www.educationplanner.org/students/self-assessments/learning-styles-quiz.shtml ).

This stuff just sounds like douchebaggery to me, and is in no way related to what i was talking about. This being said the situation in the US probably is different and separation may not be needed, or needed for different reasons. I've looked around for english language info on this and what is heavily documented in other languages is completely absent in english.

what the individual perceives themselves as

I decided not to care in the slightest what people perceive themselves as. I care about what I see. If I see two legs, you're two legged, whether you think you have one or three. If my eyes deceive me, so be it. So far they've proven most reliable. I leave the pseudo-thinkers to their pseudo-thoughts.

"Your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them."

You should open your mind and accept that the assumptions you were probably raised in were never true for all people.

Recently, a fellow transsexual woman I met in a Facebook group was arrested for marijuana possession. Rather than place her in a female cell block, the jail guards placed her in with the males. She demanded again and again to be placed with the females, where she would feel safe. She even pointed out to them that her gender had legally been changed. The guards told her, "the only
proof we need of your gender is what we see between your legs."

While in jail her feminine appearance made her a target for rape threats from the male inmates, and as a rape survivor she was psychologically traumatized by the experience.

So your simple, gender binary, one-size-fits-all solution does not truly fit all, you see. How about instead of your eyes, when dealing with matters that affect people's health, you choose a more reliable sense to trust in, such as empathy?

I am glad your friend was not given the preferential treatment women get. If only it could apply to everyone else too.
When dealing with medical issues, such as someone suffering from albinism yet believes they are black, I'll trust my eyes, and send the redhead to stand in the sun in their place. Similarly, with perhaps some exceptions (whom I have yet to meet), i consider people who want to chop their legs off just as mentally ill as those who want to make other dramatic altercations to their bodies.
It is that which malfunctions that requires repairs, though I must say I have no idea why people (especially here) have such poor control over their feelings, especially feelings towards themselves. Perhaps you should open your mind and accept that encouraging people to give in to their feelings is not always a good thing. (It goes against Jedi beliefs too btw)