Conscription - Draft

I read a post by Cyan Sarden in another thread and it made me think this warranted its own topic. So I am placing it here.

Cyan Sarden wrote: There are many countries in the world (including my own) where draft is still enforced and every man (and sometimes woman) has to serve. I found my time in the military to be somewhat strange - Switzerland is neutral and our army is set up to defend the country, not to attack others. Everything about it felt somewhat surreal - you were ripped out of your peaceful life and thrown into a system that is built from the ground up to make killing feel "normal". over the last two decades, Switzerland has been involved in a series of foreign wars (mainly in the Balkans, we still have a presence in Kosovo), albeit as a non-fighting force. I was forced to join when I was 19 years old. I was handed a rifle and trained to kill, just like about 15'000 others that year. At that time, I considered myself a pacifist. I refused to shoot at human-shaped targets at the shooting range and was punished for that. I didn't mind the shooting itself - I still shoot guns for sports to this day, but I drew the line once they replaced the neutral aim with that containing the image of a bad guy. So again - Switzerland is neutral country and I'm grateful I was never placed in a situation where I actually needed to shoot at someone.

If you look at this here, you'll see that almost half of the world still has mandatory military service:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription

So while in the US and the UK, the decision of whether you're willing to kill someone for your country is made before you join up - and it's completely your personal choice - in other parts of the world you're forced to to prepare yourself for killing if you want to or not. So what would a Jedi do there? I believe that free will is the basis for being able to live the life of a Jedi. If that free will is taken from you, what is there left to do?

I have very mixed ideas with this. Though I think it would be nice that everyone who had to serve would realize how challenging this lifestyle can be, and it sure helped a lot of maturing for me personally. I do believe it should be a free choice.

When the US did the draft in the past, there were certain people that were "exempt" and of course this leads to unfairness. The rich and political could get their children out of it or a "safe" job outside of the danger zone.

With the current rate of ineligible population climbing to 78% in the US, this could become a possibility as it is in other countries. That means that only 22% meet the minimum qualifications for military service, not that they want to serve, and the drop out rate is still relatively high through initial training.

I am teaching at an advanced school right now after several deployments, teaching the next generation, and in the almost year I have been here the discharge is at 33%, that is not the drop out of training rate, that is the "kicked out" for bad choices, failing minimum standards.

So it is a very real possibility that in the not too distant future, that a draft may come back to the US as it is in other countries.

I do feel that serving your community/country should be something that everyone should want to do, it does not mean that they should have to do military service. What about a Peace Corps, or some other "service" that could help strengthen our community and give back a little. It would make more grateful or appreciative citizenry. There seems to be much taken for granted, and a sense of expectation.

Just some rambling but curious what some of your thoughts are.

I am in the US, no.military experience...

And, I think it should be mandatory...

Two years (minimum) military training...

Then college/job/whatever...

But our military needs some adjustments, and focusing on "home" ought to be a priority....

It would not only force some "growing up", but maybe a understanding of "national pride".... An understanding of you have to take care of yourself, your teammates, your country, and the world"....

But, not being military, perhaps I'm idealistic, idk...

I'd rather go to prison than serve in a military that fights wars I don't believe in.

Edan wrote: I'd rather go to prison than serve in a military that fights wars I don't believe in.

+1

I don't think everybody needs to fight in wars (in fact, I hope nobody has to), but I do think many would benefit from military-like training. Discipline, fast thinking skills, and all that good stuff. Physical fitness too.

Edan wrote: I'd rather go to prison than serve in a military that fights wars I don't believe in.

I don't see "fighting in a war", or even "fighting" as being a major reason for anything...

I don't even like "fighting" over what restaurant we go eat at... lol...

Jestor wrote:

Edan wrote: I'd rather go to prison than serve in a military that fights wars I don't believe in.

I don't see "fighting in a war", or even "fighting" as being a major reason for anything...

I don't even like "fighting" over what restaurant we go eat at... lol...

I don't understand what you mean... Even if I was conscripted into a branch of the military that wasn't fighting, I still wouldn't do it.. I don't like what my country is choosing to do with its military, ergo, I don't want to be a part of it.

(Also, I think the UK is likely to be the last country having conscription.. our military is slowly being reduced purposely.)

Connor L. wrote: I don't think everybody needs to fight in wars (in fact, I hope nobody has to), but I do think many would benefit from military-like training. Discipline, fast thinking skills, and all that good stuff. Physical fitness too.

So maybe we should downsize the military and start up federally-funded hiking/camping groups with experts who teach people all the skills they would need to survive, get them in shape, and develop the ability to think under pressure? I think I could get on board with that.

I'm with Edan, I don't want to serve in the military regardless of whether we're in engaged in a conflict or not. I don't think what militaries do their people is healthy or beneficial. Combat just takes all those bad things and adds a second heaping of badness.

Jamie Stick wrote: So maybe we should downsize the military and start up federally-funded hiking/camping groups with experts who teach people all the skills they would need to survive, get them in shape, and develop the ability to think under pressure? I think I could get on board with that.

I'm with Edan, I don't want to serve in the military regardless of whether we're in engaged in a conflict or not. I don't think what militaries do their people is healthy or beneficial. Combat just takes all those bad things and adds a second heaping of badness.

I'm a civilian, so my opinion amounts to the price of a brass casing, but I could not disagree with you more. On either point, really. I hate the endless, illegal warfare we've [Americnas] been undertaking in the Middle East as much as anybody, but I don't believe that militaries are inherently harmful to anyone, and as long as humanity still has its primal survival instincts, they will be necessary things.

A lot of conflict stems from greed--for resources, power, land, etc. But, if you look back farther, the thing that makes this conflict work is the primitive "us vs. them" mentality that helped us survive our earliest encounters with other species to evolve into the thinking-tubes-with-appendages we are today. Those have not left us. The desire to survive to fulfill the biological imperative also informs our insular group-based philosophies. We gathered together to have a better chance of survival, as a species. After that, some groups realized that their chance of survival was threatened by other groups (usually either because resources were scarce and the locality could not support more than one group, or because a prosperous group was discovered by a group that was not and--both trying to survive--those with less attacked those with more to get what they needed to continue their lineage), and that instinct has never left us.

We pervert it--we feel we need X resource to survive, when it's truly a luxury; we say that Y group is a threat to our "freedom" (when it's not a threat to our survival); we kill "them" just because they're different and pose some vague, xenophobically-generated pseudo-threat. But the instinct itself, divorced from these perversions, is still vital to human survival to a degree, and so long as we possess it, we will continue our ancestral strategy of forming groups of people to place between "us" and "them" to ensure our own survival, through offense or defense.

Edan wrote:

Jestor wrote:

Edan wrote: I'd rather go to prison than serve in a military that fights wars I don't believe in.

I don't see "fighting in a war", or even "fighting" as being a major reason for anything...

I don't even like "fighting" over what restaurant we go eat at... lol...

I don't understand what you mean... Even if I was conscripted into a branch of the military that wasn't fighting, I still wouldn't do it.. I don't like what my country is choosing to do with its military, ergo, I don't want to be a part of it.

(Also, I think the UK is likely to be the last country having conscription.. our military is slowly being reduced purposely.)

Like anything else, change has to come from within...

The current, "in power" system needs to be navigated, then implement the changes as possible..

Standing at the gate, telling folks how to fix their walls doesn't work...

You don't think there are folks whobcould benefit from learning to cook, do laundry, why dry socks are so.important? How to fly a jet, fix broken machinery, cleaning up after themselves, the value of teamwork?

I don't know about other countries, but prisoners often volunteer (ok, volunteer kight be a strong word, lol) to clean the grounds to get out of their cells, to see the sun for an extra hour... Is that helping? Yea, lol...

All the crap work, and that can include toilet duties...

And lastly...

Being in jail teaches those interested humane treatment of their charges... Or allows for chances of inhumane treatment....

Its all connected..... lol....

Because we have the choice, we think our morals will insulate us from helping, but they won't...

And, I say this half joking, but understanding "all things are possible", if aliens were to visit, and be hostile, what would you do?

How about another Hitler?

(Just talking, always looking for other views.......)