Definitions?

  • Brenna
  • Offline
  • User
  • User
    Registered
  • I hear your voice on the wind, and I hear you call out my name
More
9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 5 months ago #165593 by Brenna
Replied by Brenna on topic What is TOTJO?
Stand by, fixing quotes. sigh



Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet

Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.

With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me
Last edit: 9 years 5 months ago by Brenna.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Brenna
  • Offline
  • User
  • User
    Registered
  • I hear your voice on the wind, and I hear you call out my name
More
9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 5 months ago #165595 by Brenna
Replied by Brenna on topic What is TOTJO?

Kitsu Tails wrote: These discussions and conversations has been an ongoing theme for over 20 years. There have been councils and secret round tables dedicated to Defining and Standardizing Jedi (Which I have been a member and active participant of) This is by far not a new story....It is much older than many realize


Yes, as there have been here. And each time the idea of standardization comes up, the response is the same. There have been some recent threads detailing this which are quite extensive. And each time, I find myself wondering, to whose specification are we attempting to standardize, and what is the point when those who dont agree will splinter off anyway

Kitsu Tails wrote: Just like in the past they feared it would be Jedi.org to carry the flag, and The Creed, and The Jediism Way and.....TOTJO is not the only one. It is simply the most mentioned now because it is the most active community at this time.


I think you misunderstood. I mean that people seem to fear that "outsiders" will think that TOTJO is the only "jedi way". But you agree then, people are afraid of TOTJO being a "flag bearer" in the community?

Kitsu Tails wrote: A nice dream. But simple fact of the matter is. This will never happen. Are there similarities? Yes. But it is not the same. Jedi Religious groups will have very religious undertones in their deffinitions. Jedi Realists will have very simple/basic and "practical" Non-religious Undertones in Their deffinitions. Then you have the Shadows/Greys who will have theirs. And the smaller branch groups like J.u.s.t Jedi who have theirs.....


"a nice dream, never happen" Im a little confused, I did not suggest anything. I only said that its seems to be yet another highlighter of the differences.

Kitsu Tails wrote: Just because there is diversity and devision dosn't mean we can't all get along. It just means we need to respect eachothers differences and be mindful in how we "Define" things


Yes. As mentioned, at TOTJO we allow freedom of belief and definition. I believe that to be very respectful.

Kitsu Tails wrote: It is TotJO's responsibility to define Their Own Temple and be precise/clear in their deffinitions that they only mean for their temple and does not carry over to others.. Just as it is My responsibility to Define J.u.s.t Jedi


But we do not have "standardized" definitions here, so as to ensure that people have the freedom needed to evolve and grow on their own paths. Its why we dont play the "Jedier than thou" game here, and why we resist attempts to force that.



Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet

Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.

With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me
Last edit: 9 years 5 months ago by Brenna.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 5 months ago #165596 by
Replied by on topic Definitions?
It seems to me that a part of the discussion is which site is the authority on what a Jedi should be. What if the leaders of each major site (define major as you will; not my place) got together and decided which among them would specialize in various aspects of Jedi teachings and training. Jedi history, philosophy, religion, even martial arts could all be centralized at different sites and an initiate would have to complete certain levels of training at each one to be considered a full Jedi. I think gradfathering in Knights and Masters who have already completed trainings at their respective sites should be considered, but that's also not my place. So why not make each major site effectively the "authority" on an individual apsect of Jediism? Then people wouldn't be considered Jedi just because they did some online courses on some site somewhere, but because they spent time learning from many different sources.
Last edit: 9 years 5 months ago by .

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 5 months ago #165598 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Definitions?
Kit,
I think you are asking for something that is obviously already here. You say that it is TOTJO's responsibility to define and specify what Jedi is...that may be, but this...this forum here is OUR forum. This is the Temple of the Jedi Order. As such, when we say Jedi, as we post here, we mean Jedi as defined by the temple.

Say I went over to IJRS and used the term "Jedi" then I might have to specify that I mean Jedi as defined by TOTJO if that is what I mean because IJRS has a different definition of Jedi.

I for one am not going to be putting disclaimers on my posts here. Sorry

Pax Per Ministerium
[img



Last edit: 9 years 5 months ago by Rosalyn J.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Jestor, Breeze el Tierno

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Topic Author
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
9 years 5 months ago #165599 by
Replied by on topic What is TOTJO?

Brenna wrote: Yes, as there have been here. And each time the idea of standardization comes up, the response is the same. There have been some recent threads detailing this which are quite extensive. And each time, I find myself wondering, to whose specification are we attempting to standardize, and what is the point when those who dont agree will splinter off anyway


The Specifications of Standardizing was meant (In theory) to be Community Wide. During these meetings representatives from All of the communities would be there to define an "Overall" Standard.

What is the point? Good questions....which is why there has been no success so far. In the end, you will always have those few who rush off and do their own thing anyways. Until we can all learn to play together, we will never have a community wide set of standards.

I think you misunderstood. I mean that people seem to fear that "outsiders" will think that TOTJO is the only "jedi way". But you agree then, people are afraid of TOTJO being a "flag bearer" in the community?


Say in pretend fantasy I am a new person. And I hear through a friend of a friend or some word dropped on the internet that there is a "Real Jedi Religion" and I become interest. I think, that sounds cool! And so get on my computer, pull up google and type in "Real Jedi Religion."

Temple Of the Jedi Order is the very first website to come up.

This means that it is a very high possibility that I, as a New person, will look over Temple of the Jedi Order and think. Oh!! So this is what the Jedi Religion is!!

Without any extra direction or awarness of other communities new members will Assume that Temple of the Jedi Order is how all Jedi behave. So when Temple of the Jedi Order writes articles on their site saying "Become a Jedi" and "You must complete such and such in order to be a Jedi" These new members will assume. Oh! These must be the standards for ALL Jedi.

Until they learn that there is more beyond the Temple....This place will be The example of the Community at large. There are plenty of people here right now who know nothing about the other communities because of this fact.

So yes. I am afraid of TotJO becoming the flag bearer. There are quite a few good communities and groups out there asides for this place, they should be given their chance as much as TotJO has theirs.

Yes. As mentioned, at TOTJO we allow freedom of belief and definition. I believe that to be very respectful.


I realize that TotJO "Will allow" but when you read the context in their pages it does sound very strict and one directional to the Church only. This goes back to my "Cosmetic" complaints of how some things are worded and displayed here.

But we do not have "standardized" definitions here, so as to ensure that people have the freedom needed to evolve and grow on their own paths. Its why we dont play the "Jedier than thou" game here, and why we resist attempts to force that.


No? You don't think the Initates Program. Clergy. Knights. and Sermens are not all apart of defining and standardizing what Temple of the Jedi Order stands for? It seems that way to me, and from what I have seen just of recent...many feel the same way.

Many of the older members here will repeatedly say how things are "Open" and "Free" here. But the structure of the website itself. The APPERANCE of it gives a different feeling.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Topic Author
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
9 years 5 months ago #165600 by
Replied by on topic Definitions?

Oneiros wrote: It seems to me that a part of the discussion is which site is the authority on what a Jedi should be. What if the leaders of each major site (define major as you will; not my place) got together and decided which among them would specialize in various aspects of Jedi teachings and training. Jedi history, philosophy, religion, even martial arts could all be centralized at different sites and an initiate would have to complete certain levels of training at each one to be considered a full Jedi. I think gradfathering in Knights and Masters who have already completed trainings at their respective sites should be considered, but that's also not my place. So why not make each major site effectively the "authority" on an individual apsect of Jediism? Then people wouldn't be considered Jedi just because they did some online courses on some site somewhere, but because they spent time learning from many different sources.


:) This has been attempted before....sadly didn't work out so well.

You say that it is TOTJO's responsibility to define and specify what Jedi is...that may be, but this...this forum here is OUR forum. This is the Temple of the Jedi Order. As such, when we say Jedi, as we post here, we mean Jedi as defined by the temple.


So it has been said. And yet myself and others have felt differently. As I pointed out above....New members and guests here don't know any different. So when they see "One must take our Initiates exam in order to become a Jedi." It gives the appearance and feeling as if that is universal. Simple as that.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
9 years 5 months ago #165602 by
Replied by on topic Definitions?
I agree with RosalynJ in that when using the word 'Jedi' while on our forum it should be implied that we mean our definition of 'Jedi' It's like regulars at a Catholic church talking about God while in their church, they don't say "I mean our version of God, not the Baptist version or Protestant version." It's just kind of understood.

I do feel like Oneiros is searching for a world wide definition and that should be specified if that's what we're to be discussing. Like Brenna says, that's been discussed here a lot recently, and like Kit says, it's been discussed by Jedi (of all communities) for quite some time.

As far as TOTJO being a flagship for the community and wanting new comers to understand that there are other communities I must say that I don't see that being that big a problem. Most newcomers here talk about having searched the internet for a while before settling here, I know I searched for months before I did. If a person stops at the first thing they see and judge all others based on that, well that seems like their problem more than the Temples. That's like saying that Walmart needs to let people know that there are other stores and that just because maybe they come up first on google doesn't mean they're the only option. (not a perfect metaphor, but I think it's ok for what I'm trying to say)

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Brenna
  • Offline
  • User
  • User
    Registered
  • I hear your voice on the wind, and I hear you call out my name
More
9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 5 months ago #165604 by Brenna
Replied by Brenna on topic What is TOTJO?
HElp. I dont know what I did but I think i wiped out the posts that was here :(



Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet

Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.

With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me
Last edit: 9 years 5 months ago by Brenna.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #165606 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Definitions?

Oneiros wrote: It seems to me that a part of the discussion is which site is the authority on what a Jedi should be.


Precisely. I mean, we should strive to be like all the other religions that have that figured out, too. So, let's get in touch with the official authority on Christianity--is it the Roman Catholics, the Orthodox, the Coptics, the Baptists, the Pentecostals, the Methodists, the Anglicans, the Episcopalians, or the Seventh-Day Adventists? I forget.

Oh, nevermind. We'll just ask how the Muslims did it. Wait..which sect do we ask...Buddhists! there we go. The Buddhists are all one---wait, drat. They're not cohesive, either...
The following user(s) said Thank You: Brenna

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Jestor
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
    Registered
  • What you want to learn, determines your teacher ..
More
9 years 5 months ago #165608 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Definitions?

Kitsu Tails wrote:

You say that it is TOTJO's responsibility to define and specify what Jedi is...that may be, but this...this forum here is OUR forum. This is the Temple of the Jedi Order. As such, when we say Jedi, as we post here, we mean Jedi as defined by the temple.


So it has been said. And yet myself and others have felt differently. As I pointed out above....New members and guests here don't know any different. So when they see "One must take our Initiates exam in order to become a Jedi." It gives the appearance and feeling as if that is universal. Simple as that.


It doesn't say that....

I'm not done catching up, but here's what our front page says...

"a church"

"Members of the Order take an Oath"

Sorry if its been said further....:blush:



Attachment h6b856e7_2014-10-22.png not found


On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter
Attachments:
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rosalyn J,

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Moderators: ZerokevlarVerheilenChaotishRabeRiniTavi