Definitions?

Brenna wrote:

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Oneiros wrote: There does need to be a standard so that when people think of Jedi they have a clear picture in their mind.

The problem with this statement is that it is ignorant to all the other paths and ways of Jedi. Please do not take "Ignorant" as rude, meerly understand that I am attempting to prove a small point.

That point is simply. TotJO is not the ONLY Definition and Way of Jedi. There needs to be a clear understanding of that. TotJO needs to be more mindful of the fact that when they say "Jedi" in their descriptions.....They mean THEIR Jedi and THEIR ideals and THEIR Standards.

Not everyone who is Jedi will line up with TotJO foundations.

Gathered Force Community is purely a Social Community which fullfills all the Social needs of community users. But we do not discourage or attempt to claim "The Only" or "The best" or "The most" status. Those actions and statements are what leads to Elitism....not directive purpose and goals.

In my opinion TotJO Should focus on their "Church" Goals and clearly define that it is THEIR "way" of Jediism.

Be very very careful of generalizations *Bows*

While I do agree with you Kitsu, please be aware that for the majority of discussions of this nature, members of TOTJO are referring to their own definitions and the way TOTJO does things.

No one here is interested in defining for any of the other groups what the Jedi way is, and the other groups definitions seldom get brought up unless a member of those groups is involved, like now I suppose. So we don't specify because its mostly understood that we don't dictate "our" way to anyone.

Added above for continuity. Wescli Wardest

Brenna wrote:

Kitsu Tails wrote:
I know that. And You know that. But new members on the path who finds TotJO first Does not.

I am writing a Manual on Jedi Standards and education. In that Manual I do not say "Jedi do this. and Jedi do that." I say "J.u.s.t Jedi Do this. And J.u.s.t Jedi do that." because I know that some of those who will read my manual may not know anything about the "Entire" Jedi Community and I want it clearly understood that the Standards and Education of J.u.s.t Jedi is ONLY J.u.s.t Jedi's beliefs.

Of course. And as I said, I agree.

For the purpose of this thread though, we are talking about what people think of TOTJO and the standards expected here, as is very clear from the OP.

I realize that I did not think my "Warning" was misplaced however Never hurts to keep a reminder up There are plenty of pages and articles on here which make me squirm because it generalizes the use of the word "Jedi" which it should (In my honest opinion) be stated more clearly. Thus, I place my warning on the spur of "Chnage" discussions. Nothing more. *bows*

Continue on. I derailed enough..... :dry:

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Brenna wrote:

Kitsu Tails wrote:
I know that. And You know that. But new members on the path who finds TotJO first Does not.

I am writing a Manual on Jedi Standards and education. In that Manual I do not say "Jedi do this. and Jedi do that." I say "J.u.s.t Jedi Do this. And J.u.s.t Jedi do that." because I know that some of those who will read my manual may not know anything about the "Entire" Jedi Community and I want it clearly understood that the Standards and Education of J.u.s.t Jedi is ONLY J.u.s.t Jedi's beliefs.

Of course. And as I said, I agree.

For the purpose of this thread though, we are talking about what people think of TOTJO and the standards expected here, as is very clear from the OP.

I realize that I did not think my "Warning" was misplaced however Never hurts to keep a reminder up There are plenty of pages and articles on here which make me squirm because it generalizes the use of the word "Jedi" which it should (In my honest opinion) be stated more clearly. Thus, I place my warning on the spur of "Chnage" discussions. Nothing more. *bows*

Continue on. I derailed enough..... :dry:

Admin - Perhaps we could move this to a new thread? I think its interesting and bears discussion.


Most people are unaware that I spend quite a lot of time in the other sites and communities. I mostly watch and read.

I very seldom see other groups being asked to temper their discussions to accommodate TOTJOS views on the Jedi and its definitions... in fact, I don't think Ive ever seen it. And there are also posts and articles that make me deeply uncomfortable too. But I realise, I do not have to take what they say on board.

What I do see through is regular discussion on what is "Jedi", which is to be expected, the community is still developing. But I also see bickering, I see egos and I see lots of labels and sub labels. I see those who are more forceful promoting their version of the definitions loudly and aggressively and tearing down any who disagree. I see people told "you are not a Jedi" when disagreeing with someone elses ideals.

There is of course a huge amount of good discussion that goes on too. But I feel it is marred and stunted by people expecting their own definitions to be adopted and adhered to and accepted as valid.

This is the main reason that TOTJO is my home. Which is funny, because I dont believe in religion. And Jediism is just a word other people use. Yes, there is a doctrine. We have "rules" and expectations but we very seldom push to have every possible definition present in every discussion. We tend to have faith that people have the capacity to see the wider picture and just get on with it.

Anyone who has found TOTJO has access to google. Anyone spending more than 5 minutes here will realise that there are many definitions within this temple alone, let alone the wider community. We never ever declare that this is the only way or that we are the only Jedi. Quite the opposite in fact. And you will see that we often have discussions here where the Jedi of TOTJO present differing views on what it is to be a Jedi. And we have a great deal of time for the integration of various definitions and philosophies.

You may not feel that your "Warning" is misplaced, but I feel that in this thread, it is inappropriate.

Brenna wrote: You may not feel that your "Warning" is misplaced, but I feel that in this thread, it is inappropriate.

It wasn't when it was just a response to Onerios comment. It is now that it's turned into an unexpected discussion of it's own I did not intend for you or anyone else to expand on it beyond my simple warning to Onerios statement on "Jedi Standards." So.....My deepest appologies. Please, lets let it drop and return to the OP's purpose.*bows*

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Brenna wrote: You may not feel that your "Warning" is misplaced, but I feel that in this thread, it is inappropriate.

It wasn't when it was just a response to Onerios comment. It is now that it's turned into an unexpected discussion of it's own I did not intend for you or anyone else to expand on it beyond my simple warning to Onerios statement on "Jedi Standards." So.....My deepest appologies. Please, lets let it drop and return to the OP's purpose.*bows*

You do not need to apologize, you've done nothing wrong or offensive this is not a criticism of your commentary Kitsu, and as I've said, its an interesting discussion. One I feel is worthwhile having. (which is why I asked for it to be moved to another thread)

My concern in this particular thread over the warning, is that we are talking about TOTJO specifically, and its a discussion we absolutely must have. I do not want for people to be unable to continue the discussion because they feel they are being expected to filter their comments through the screen of "is this going to upset the definition of someone in another community". That is the only reason I call it inappropriate.

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Brenna wrote: You may not feel that your "Warning" is misplaced, but I feel that in this thread, it is inappropriate.

It wasn't when it was just a response to Onerios comment. It is now that it's turned into an unexpected discussion of it's own I did not intend for you or anyone else to expand on it beyond my simple warning to Onerios statement on "Jedi Standards." So.....My deepest appologies. Please, lets let it drop and return to the OP's purpose.*bows*

I thank you for your constructive criticism on my earlier comment. I honestly hadn't considered the larger Jedi community when I posted it. Also many thanks to Brenna for keeping the context of this thread clear and for starting a new and equally important discussion. I look forward to the new thread mentioned in other comments.

.......This was split off at the wrong spot...me thinks....Admins?

Kitsu Tails wrote: .......This was split off at the wrong spot...me thinks....Admins?

Thats where I asked for it from, I didnt want to drag the whole of the rest of the thread in.... does it read funny?

Yes...perhaps split it off where I first comment in that thread would be more "Understandable"

Ok. most of whats important has been quoted in the first post.

As I was saying,

there is a lot of discussion in the community on definitions. TOTJO in particular has a LOT of flexibility on definition, so long as you play by the rules of courtesy (and even then you get some leeway)

Im interested in the "pushing" of definitions, that I've mentioned seeing in the community, and it pops up here from time to time.

And I wonder.

Each of us, and each "group" is still working to define their "way". There seems to be a fear that if we dont list all the various definitions and pit disclaimers on posts, that people might think that TOTJOs way is the only one.

What are peoples feelings on this?

I guess for me, I wonder about it being just another tool to highlight the differences, rather than the similarities in our community? And further widen that "them and us" mentality that seems to have developed within the community.

And is it our responsibility to detail the differences or make people aware of them?

Brenna wrote: there is a lot of discussion in the community on definitions. TOTJO in particular has a LOT of flexibility on definition, so long as you play by the rules of courtesy (and even then you get some leeway)

Im interested in the "pushing" of definitions, that I've mentioned seeing in the community, and it pops up here from time to time.

These discussions and conversations has been an ongoing theme for over 20 years. There have been councils and secret round tables dedicated to Defining and Standardizing Jedi (Which I have been a member and active participant of) This is by far not a new story....It is much older than many realize.

Each of us, and each "group" is still working to define their "way". There seems to be a fear that if we dont list all the various definitions and pit disclaimers on posts, that people might think that TOTJOs way is the only one.

Just like in the past they feared it would be Jedi.org to carry the flag, and The Creed, and The Jediism Way and.....TOTJO is not the only one. It is simply the most mentioned now because it is the most active community at this time.

I guess for me, I wonder about it being just another tool to highlight the differences, rather than the similarities in our community? And further widen that "them and us" mentality that seems to have developed within the community.

A nice dream. But simple fact of the matter is. This will never happen. Are there similarities? Yes. But it is not the same. Jedi Religious groups will have very religious undertones in their deffinitions. Jedi Realists will have very simple/basic and "practical" Non-religious Undertones in Their deffinitions. Then you have the Shadows/Greys who will have theirs. And the smaller branch groups like J.u.s.t Jedi who have theirs.....

Just because there is diversity and devision dosn't mean we can't all get along. It just means we need to respect eachothers differences and be mindful in how we "Define" things.

And is it our responsibility to detail the differences or make people aware of them?

It is TotJO's responsibility to define Their Own Temple and be precise/clear in their deffinitions that they only mean for their temple and does not carry over to others.. Just as it is My responsibility to Define J.u.s.t Jedi.