Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight

Moderators: Adder, Desolous

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 23 Feb 2010 04:17 #29012

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
Sweet Baby Jesus!
Founder of The Order

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 23 Feb 2010 05:43 #29016

OK Tatsujin - firstly - I NEVER once said wiki was authoritative - never have and never will, im fully aware of its open source operation - as are most if not all our readers (or at least the adult readers) - I said its accurate.

There are hundreds of possible sources for this information, including the main scouting group website.

Im English born n bred - so if it makes you feel cosy inside - lets put it this way - Im giving the english historical version of the founding of the scouting movement - which funnily enough happens to be the nationality of Powell.

Another point - I dont see any 'grey area' in terms of the history - we're talking late 19th/early 20th century here - not several hundred years ago.

Neither did I once say the scouts and military are the same - you dont seriously think im that ignorant do you? This temple has DOZENS of active service personal, from all the forces from many nationalities - and as many if not more ex-servicemen/women. TOTJO also has regular interaction with the military for various reasons - and whilst I personally have not served - every generation of my family up to the current HAS served King/Queen and country - and has so dating back some 800+ years - im well aware of how the military functions thank you.

As a side note - linked to above point about language - I went somewhat out of my way to 'defend' you or at least put it to everyone else that perhaps youd been misunderstood - im starting to think 'why did I bother'

Have you had enough of the masters in this thread because you dont like being challenged over your statements?

To be blunt - a number of your posts have been quite abrasive - generally I put this down to language differences and the limitations of text conversations - I tend to cut everyone slack (when they are new or reasonably new) just in case its 'new comers defensive syndrome' or something - yet in an earlier post, you said

Tatsujin wrote:
If anything would make me want to leave, it's being put in a position to explain myself any time I affirm what the order is doing because someone is used to being assailed by people who don't get it.

yet your doing exactly this to others time n again.

Youve also said your seen as opinionated/snobby etc - have you wondered why this is? Perhaps lines such as this

Tatsujin wrote:
The third thought that crosses my mind is that I'm an intellectual who can post with clarity and defend myself well. This comes off to most people as being overly opinionated and snobby, so I can gather that when combining the three thoughts would result in people not reading what I'm writing and assuming their way through.

will explain this.

Your not the only one to have run many sites, your not the only one with any level of intellect but from the little I have experienced of you thus far is mainly your guilty of everything your pointing at others for. Most of the longer standing members here treat 'attacks' like water off a duck back- everyone has a different perspective of everything, one persons 'fact' maybe another's fantasy - history is written by the victors as they say.

I certainly am not going to disagree with your final line.

So back on topic - I think in terms of ranks etc - those who are 'rank haters' maybe have not quite thought about what the rank means. Just because one does not appreciate why another has a rank or title should not mean that they have no respect to the individual. Of course, respect is a mutual thing, but if your in a place (physically or otherwise) where ranks are used - it is only good manners to use the appropriate titles etc. You would expect a 'guest' in your home to treat you with respect and abide by your rules - so its simple course to do the same - be it in a home, public building, website or other place.

From what ive seen elsewhere - the main cause of problems in this regard is lack of understanding of what the title or rank means - with the knowledge of what they mean and what the function of the title and or individual - one can often avoid looking foolish or worse - ignorant.

Yes, respect is two way traffic - but someone has to 'go first' - so by showing the appropriate respect - youll be off to a good start in a given situation. As said, there will always be the little hitlers - but they are easy to identify, just keep calm and polite but dont fuel their rage or ego - if necessary, walk away - it takes at least two to fight ;)

As a final note - I have one irritation in terms of ranks and titles - its folks who (as an example) INSIST on being called 'Major' or whatever - when the last time they were in active service was in WW2. OK, they earned the rank in the military at the time, but military and civilian life is very different - most civies wont understand the ranks anyway and its especially maddening to see/hear elderly 'Majors' (again an example) get cross with say a 20 year old for not using the title. Whats the point? they will have only legitimatly had the title for a couple or so years anyway and once out of service - is the 'rank' theirs toi use anyway?

Would a serving soldier now, follow an 'order' from a guy who was a major 60years ago? I very much doubt it - so why do such folk think others should treat them differently. If you really want the name used - get your name changed by law (deed poll in the UK)

This really does only serve to feed the ego of the title holder - and at the end of the day - its only a word, a badge - it has no actual value and like money - you cant take it with you.

Everyone is equal in death and within the force ;)

"If you don't like or agree with the way we do things here, you know where the door is"

" What we do in life - echoes an eternity!"

Pastor Emeritus - Apprentice To Br John

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Feb 2010 23:48 #29039

Wow Tatsujin you really carried this a long way since I was last on.

Maybe we should withdraw from this subject or change the subject?
Rahm Kota: "The Force is strong in you my boy, to be able to sense my thoughts..."
Cheshire Cat: Different denotes neither bad nor good, but it certainly means 'not the same'!

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 25 Feb 2010 00:11 #29040

  • stevef
  • stevef's Avatar
  • Knight
  • ID: 535
been on and off for a while, and I just noticed a clever post saying lets be respectful and call people by rank or title.
Wow, for a simple point this thread got really complicated... scouts and the UK and the military!

here's my rule of thumb and it seems to make sense:
if They are a master Call them Master X. I use the username in shout and the forums. If they are an apprentice call them Apprentice X or I think Padawan is acceptable to most. or Brother or Sister.
Knights Sir Madam or Brother Sister
If you and them are the same rank Brother or Sister is fine.
If you don't know and are too lazy to find out Brother or Sister.
Ya we can use the full title or multiple titles but it's less about who's what than being respectful of all of us. let me say that again, it's about respecting your fellow jedi.

if you look at the films, all the jedi were called by a title even by Palpatine, who hated them and wanted to destroy all jedi. If he can bite the bullet so can we.

but maybe I'm too simple to be in this conversation.


Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 25 Feb 2010 23:15 #29054

  • Jaden
  • Jaden's Avatar
  • Guest
  • ID: 1092
I been reading the whole thread and I would like to bring my small contribution in, saying what I think about ranks.

First of all I never see the rank, I see the person behind it and use the rank to get an idea about the amount of knowledge and work that person had until now. For instance I am an apprentice and it describes exactly what I am: a person that has more to learn in order to be able to teach others. As Kana Seiko Haruki said in one of the posts, a master is a normal human being which never looses the desire to learn and improve oneself for the good of others and make this world a better place.

We could put it this way: you call the one that gave you birth \"mother\". This is a rank. Before she gave birth she was a woman, she didn't knew how it feels and what it means to be a mother unless she had a child. This goes the same with our ranks: when you join in you know few things or maybe nothing about jediism. Later on as you learn your perception about life and other matters change, the ranks are there to remind of who you were and where you reached.

I personally see ranks as a tool to help new members and make the bound between members stronger. For instance when I will be called Master I wouldn't feel any different from what I feel now (it will just make me remember always about my duties and responsibilities I have towards the Temple and it's members)but I certainly know that a new member will come to me and ask for help because he/she would know that I am among those who know about TOTJO.

And yeah it's a matter of respect also. It's your choice if you want to use the ranks or not but I wonder if you would call your boss by his/her name, if you would call your school teacher by name and so on. As long as you see it JUST as a matter of respect you shouldn't feel offended yourself when others tell you to follow this simple rule and use the ranks.

Hope I managed to explain these things well as english is not my native language. Thanks for taking time to read this.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 26 Feb 2010 23:22 #29062

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
Yes you did Jaden very well indeed.
Founder of The Order

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 27 Feb 2010 22:48 #29068

  • Jestor
  • Jestor's Avatar
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 3682
The comparrison to 'mother'... awesome..

VERY well done Jaden....
Rite: PureLand
Master: Master Jasper_Ward
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Elizabeth, Llama Su

"I do not demand your faith; I am not setting myself up as an authority. I have nothing to teach you - no new philosophy, no new system, no new path to reality; there is no path to reality any more than to truth. All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."~Krishnamurti~

"My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions." ~Dr. Alfred Lanning (I, Robot)

"Wherever this leads, I DO like the idea of semi-nomadic symbolism. In truth, it speaks more from the heart of our decentralized culture.
We have no Pontiff, we have no Prophet...we have a loose confederation of independent people who agree upon fundamental symbols that we interpret in our own way according to our philosophy and spirituality.
Moreover, that is not a weakness - it remains our singular strength." ~Reacher~

Latest Posts Comments Articles
    • Guns in America (Last post by OB1Shinobi)
    • Quote: I think people have to understand that if you want to enjoy freedom there are risks involved. there are many reasons and many factors - one that i think is relevant here (but not always) is a sort of victim mindset - some people feel like victims and then are mean and angry, and also weak, but rather than find ways to strenghten themself, they demand that the world be made safe, which of course it never will be
    • The nature of entertainment media (Last post by CryojenX)
    • Quote: I used to be a metalhead. I still listen to a lot of metal, I just don't identify with the subculture. I was really into black metal, but I got tired of it after I became a Christian, because I didn't feel like listening to a genre that is at least 75% dedicated to bashing Christianity. I don't like the metal culture, either. It advocates a self-destructive lifestyle. I know what you mean, part of my problem was that I wanted to belong to a community, I like a lot of metal, and so tried to fit into the subculture, as it's supposedly the place for the misfits. But while I love some metal, the culture is simply not who I am. This is one reason I puled away from the music for a while: I had completely oversaturated myself to the point of spiritual exhaustion. I do like me some indie pop and folk music, yknow? Quote: As for the video games: I don't mean to be pushy or preachy, but I have nothing good to say about them. I decided at the beginning of my adult life to live without video games, TV, and films, and it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. My advice to you would be to throw out all your games, but I can understand if you see that as unreasonable. To tell the truth, in the past I have done exactly that, thrown out all my games. Unfortunately with nothing to fall back on it left a vacuum in my life and never lasted for long. I don't see anything inherently wrong with the medium, or film for that matter; just as with music, one needs to simply be selective. I like films and games that show me life from a perspective I might not ordinarily have, to help me gain a better insight of universal truths. Believe it or not, there are more games out there with deep philosophical, emotional, and moral themes than you might imagine. ;)
    • Declining Student Resilience: A Serious Problem fo... (Last post by RyuJin)
    • hello ritalin.....for a while that stuff was being prescribed for everything...half of my sisters kids were on it....all of the ones that were on it...not very successful or resilient....the ones that never took it....thriving.... in the states it seems to be a trend...if a kid misbehaves or doesn't focus...give them some meds...when i was a kid they had corporal punishment in when i messed up at school i got paddled there...then when i got home and my mom found out i got punished at home...then when my stepdad found out i got paddled at school...he'd wear my @$$ out with a belt, switch,paddle, or anything else he could grab....punished 3 times for 1 crime....guess what i learned...don't do that again.... i failed college algebra spectacularly 3 times...
    • Thomas Jefferson, Jedi? (Last post by Br. John)
    • Quote: Poking fun at Old Guard Jedi? ;) :P B) I'd say some of the one's you call Old Guard Jedi would do well to consider it - as would we.
    • Weight Check-In Thread (Last post by flowerfie)
    • Just want to quickly correct my last post, was supposed to say 21st September 2015 not 29th! Whoops! Anyway, latest update and hit another 10lb milestone. Starting Weight: 210lb (19th August 2015) Today's Weight: 190lb (3rd October 2015) Goal Weight: 135lb
    • Senior Knights (Last post by Br. John)
    • As far as I know: The library is accessible to any registered user (Guest). There are forums not visible to search engines and anyone not logged in. There are forums only accessible to Apprentices. There are forums only accessible to Knights. There are forums only accessible to Clergy. There is a special forum for moderators and admins. There is a forum for The Council only visible to it and Sys Admins. Just as no two Knights have received the same training there is no set plan for Senior Knight. There is no secret plan or materials for becoming a Senior Knight. As I said earlier, it's time The Council and The College of Knights take up this issue to update and clarify it. The proposed plan should be published for public comment before becoming policy.
    • Workout Check-In Thread (Last post by JLSpinner)
    • Cable flies 10x100 5x140 3x160 3x200 Inclined cable press 5x200 4x200 3x200 Cable lateral raises 10 second reps 10x14 7x14 6x14 Weighted dips 7x20 7x20 7x20 HIIT 40 yard sprint 60 yard fastwalk 5 sets
    • Digital Temple (Last post by Streen)
    • Thanks for the support, Whyte Horse! One thing I forgot to mention is that the game does support voice-over chat. You just need a mic.
    • Is Mario Evil? - The science of Good-versus-Evil (Last post by Competent)
    • I think it would be safe to say evil isn't only pushing people out of their tolerance range to the point they die, it is also pushing them out of their tolerance range to the point where it inflicts great pain (such as torture).
    • The Holocron (Newsletter) (Last post by Alethea Thompson)
    • What the Holocron is. It's a monthly newsletter hosted/organized by Jedi Federation. Anyone can submit articles to the Holocron. What is Jedi Federation? It's the coming together of several ofline Jedi groups to establish a non-profit organization which will assist in the growth of its chapters and affiliates. Vision: Building Peace and Justice While Promoting Diversity Mission: Guided by our training we improve ourselves, serve the community, and help the world around us. Style Guideline WRITE FOR THE HOLOCRON Submissions can be made in the following categories (but are not limited to): * Research based articles * Opinion based articles * Tips & Training Techniques Articles submitted for publication in the Holocron should address the quality and scope of Jedi and related topics. Articles must be appropriate to the audience including but not limited to best Jedi practices, technical information, and problems and solutions. Style Guidelines: Title page On this page, list: * Title of the article; * Title, full names, affiliation and email addresses of all authors * Suggestions for a short running title of no more than 40 characters (including spaces); * Acknowledgements (if applicable) Body of the paper The introduction should state clearly the objective of the paper as well as the motivation and context of the article. Theoretical papers may devote a full section to motivation and potential usefulness of the proposed theoretical framework. The conclusion should summarize key findings and state their importance to the reader, or wrap up the key thoughts. Style of presentation * Use double spacing and Times New Roman or Garamond 12 pt font. * Number all pages in your article. * Use one space, not two spaces, between sentences. * Article text should be left-aligned. * When appropriate, use headings and subheadings for clarity. The Holocron uses only three levels of headings. o Main headings designate your major sections. Center main headings and use all capitals. o Second-level headings should be flush with the left margin and in bold, and only the first letter of major words should be capitalized. o Third-level headings should be in bold and italicized, and only the first letter of major words should be capitalized. o Do not use a fourth level of headings. * Use endnotes instead of footnotes. Please use these sparingly, and keep them short. Citations to the literature should be included in the text, not in the endnotes. * Check that the sequence of any numbered elements (tables, figures, equations, etc.) is correct. * Double check all mathematical entries in the article before submission. Write out numbers below 10. Insert leading zeros before decimal points in text and tables (e.g., '0.3' rather than '.3'). Report only two decimal places for statistics. * Place endnotes, references, figures, tables, and appendices at the end of your article. Each component should begin on a new page. Readability * Make your article easy to read by using short words and short sentences. Journalism Magic Rule 13 applies—sentences should average 13 words in length. Keep sentences short so the reader does not get lost before the end of a sentence. Do not write long, run-on paragraphs. * Write in an interesting, readable manner. Vary your sentence structure. * The Holocron is intended to be read, not deciphered. Avoid jargon or heavily technical terms that few readers may understand. Define specialized words or terms. * Spell out any acronyms or abbreviations. For example, Force Academy (FA) or Jedi Federation (FE) are ways to spell out these acronyms. * When emphasizing a word or phrase, do not put in quotation marks. Instead, put these words or phrases in italics. * Put sentences in the active voice ("I did") instead of the passive voice ("It was done") to make it easy for readers to see who did what. Use the first person ("I" or "we") to describe what you did. * Be consistent in your capitalization, spelling, hyphenation and formatting throughout the article. For example, use “Jedi” instead of “jedi.” * Avoid common usage errors such as "it's" and "its", "affect" and "effect", and "that" and "which". Singular (plural) nouns require singular (plural) pronouns and verbs. "Data" is a plural noun; "none" is singular. "Who" should be used for people; "that" and "which" for organizations. * Use semicolons to help define long lists that include both groups and subgroups. If a clause is inserted in a sentence use paired commas to set off the clause. * Check and correct spelling and punctuation before submitting your article. * Any figures, tables, pictures that were not created by the author must appropriately cite where it came from. (Please give credit where it was due). Figures and Tables * Line drawings, maps, charts, graphs, diagrams, photos, etc. should all be labelled as figures. * Number tables and figures consecutively, in order of appearance (one series for tables, one for figures). Long tables that have many panels should preferably be broken into separately numbered tables. * Each table or figure must have at least one sentence in your text that introduces it. In-text references to tables should be in sequential order throughout the paper. * A table should be understandable on its own. The text should highlight the main points in a table and summarize its message, but not duplicate the details. Tables should not have any lengthy introductory text; any necessary notes should be included as footnotes to the table and should not repeat text from the body of the paper. * Titles of tables and figures should be short and descriptive. They should not contain acronyms, abbreviations or symbols. Submission Guidelines: All articles must be submitted electronically only in Microsoft Word format to \n This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. Please do not send as a PDF. You may send as a Word document or Rich Text format. Please also include a brief bio of 100-150 words (per author) and a headshot photo to include in the Holocron. Criteria for Selection Submitted articles will go through a double-blind peer review. Selection will be based on quality and style (organization and clearly written), as well as represent a contribution to knowledge on walking the Jedi Path. Articles may be: (a) Accepted without revision, (b) Conditionally accepted pending minor revisions as recommended, (c) Rejected but invite resubmission with major revisions, or (d) Rejected.

There are 661 visitors, 14 guests and 46 members online (none in chat): Sirius, Br. John, Sarus, Grom Fett, Alethea Thompson, Angelus, Jestor, Jedi_Roz, Kitsu Tails, Connor L., Desolous, Luthien, isisinabi, Alexandre Orion, Rosalyn J, Joey, E-3_4L_Teeter, Archon, Kamizu, Avalonslight, Keladry, Jamie Stick, Calanon, Cabur Senaar, SeventhSL, OB1Shinobi, Rendar, Krieger, asteropos, Competent, CryojenX, Plasmawiz, Tellahane, Corsair Gorscue, toft, Trazyn4211, Mikhael, Hiram Abiff, McYeke, Korwin Nightshade, Morkhen, Tymmy, Ellipses, mikul, Doogle, WBStookey, Ousan Ka, Jack.Troutman, MadHatter, Focas.

Follow Us