Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight

Moderators: Adder, Adhara

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 23 Feb 2010 04:17 #29012

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
Sweet Baby Jesus!
Founder of The Order

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 23 Feb 2010 05:43 #29016

OK Tatsujin - firstly - I NEVER once said wiki was authoritative - never have and never will, im fully aware of its open source operation - as are most if not all our readers (or at least the adult readers) - I said its accurate.

There are hundreds of possible sources for this information, including the main scouting group website.

Im English born n bred - so if it makes you feel cosy inside - lets put it this way - Im giving the english historical version of the founding of the scouting movement - which funnily enough happens to be the nationality of Powell.

Another point - I dont see any 'grey area' in terms of the history - we're talking late 19th/early 20th century here - not several hundred years ago.

Neither did I once say the scouts and military are the same - you dont seriously think im that ignorant do you? This temple has DOZENS of active service personal, from all the forces from many nationalities - and as many if not more ex-servicemen/women. TOTJO also has regular interaction with the military for various reasons - and whilst I personally have not served - every generation of my family up to the current HAS served King/Queen and country - and has so dating back some 800+ years - im well aware of how the military functions thank you.

As a side note - linked to above point about language - I went somewhat out of my way to 'defend' you or at least put it to everyone else that perhaps youd been misunderstood - im starting to think 'why did I bother'

Have you had enough of the masters in this thread because you dont like being challenged over your statements?

To be blunt - a number of your posts have been quite abrasive - generally I put this down to language differences and the limitations of text conversations - I tend to cut everyone slack (when they are new or reasonably new) just in case its 'new comers defensive syndrome' or something - yet in an earlier post, you said

Tatsujin wrote:
If anything would make me want to leave, it's being put in a position to explain myself any time I affirm what the order is doing because someone is used to being assailed by people who don't get it.


yet your doing exactly this to others time n again.

Youve also said your seen as opinionated/snobby etc - have you wondered why this is? Perhaps lines such as this

Tatsujin wrote:
The third thought that crosses my mind is that I'm an intellectual who can post with clarity and defend myself well. This comes off to most people as being overly opinionated and snobby, so I can gather that when combining the three thoughts would result in people not reading what I'm writing and assuming their way through.


will explain this.

Your not the only one to have run many sites, your not the only one with any level of intellect but from the little I have experienced of you thus far is mainly your guilty of everything your pointing at others for. Most of the longer standing members here treat 'attacks' like water off a duck back- everyone has a different perspective of everything, one persons 'fact' maybe another's fantasy - history is written by the victors as they say.

I certainly am not going to disagree with your final line.

So back on topic - I think in terms of ranks etc - those who are 'rank haters' maybe have not quite thought about what the rank means. Just because one does not appreciate why another has a rank or title should not mean that they have no respect to the individual. Of course, respect is a mutual thing, but if your in a place (physically or otherwise) where ranks are used - it is only good manners to use the appropriate titles etc. You would expect a 'guest' in your home to treat you with respect and abide by your rules - so its simple course to do the same - be it in a home, public building, website or other place.

From what ive seen elsewhere - the main cause of problems in this regard is lack of understanding of what the title or rank means - with the knowledge of what they mean and what the function of the title and or individual - one can often avoid looking foolish or worse - ignorant.

Yes, respect is two way traffic - but someone has to 'go first' - so by showing the appropriate respect - youll be off to a good start in a given situation. As said, there will always be the little hitlers - but they are easy to identify, just keep calm and polite but dont fuel their rage or ego - if necessary, walk away - it takes at least two to fight ;)

As a final note - I have one irritation in terms of ranks and titles - its folks who (as an example) INSIST on being called 'Major' or whatever - when the last time they were in active service was in WW2. OK, they earned the rank in the military at the time, but military and civilian life is very different - most civies wont understand the ranks anyway and its especially maddening to see/hear elderly 'Majors' (again an example) get cross with say a 20 year old for not using the title. Whats the point? they will have only legitimatly had the title for a couple or so years anyway and once out of service - is the 'rank' theirs toi use anyway?

Would a serving soldier now, follow an 'order' from a guy who was a major 60years ago? I very much doubt it - so why do such folk think others should treat them differently. If you really want the name used - get your name changed by law (deed poll in the UK)

This really does only serve to feed the ego of the title holder - and at the end of the day - its only a word, a badge - it has no actual value and like money - you cant take it with you.

Everyone is equal in death and within the force ;)

MTFBWY - A

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Feb 2010 23:48 #29039

Wow Tatsujin you really carried this a long way since I was last on.

Maybe we should withdraw from this subject or change the subject?
Rahm Kota: "The Force is strong in you my boy, to be able to sense my thoughts..."
Cheshire Cat: Different denotes neither bad nor good, but it certainly means 'not the same'!

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 25 Feb 2010 00:11 #29040

  • stevef
  • stevef's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Knight
  • ID: 535
been on and off for a while, and I just noticed a clever post saying lets be respectful and call people by rank or title.
Wow, for a simple point this thread got really complicated... scouts and the UK and the military!

here's my rule of thumb and it seems to make sense:
if They are a master Call them Master X. I use the username in shout and the forums. If they are an apprentice call them Apprentice X or I think Padawan is acceptable to most. or Brother or Sister.
Knights Sir Madam or Brother Sister
If you and them are the same rank Brother or Sister is fine.
If you don't know and are too lazy to find out Brother or Sister.
Ya we can use the full title or multiple titles but it's less about who's what than being respectful of all of us. let me say that again, it's about respecting your fellow jedi.

if you look at the films, all the jedi were called by a title even by Palpatine, who hated them and wanted to destroy all jedi. If he can bite the bullet so can we.

but maybe I'm too simple to be in this conversation.

MTFBWY

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 25 Feb 2010 23:15 #29054

  • Jaden
  • Jaden's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guest
  • ID: 1092
I been reading the whole thread and I would like to bring my small contribution in, saying what I think about ranks.

First of all I never see the rank, I see the person behind it and use the rank to get an idea about the amount of knowledge and work that person had until now. For instance I am an apprentice and it describes exactly what I am: a person that has more to learn in order to be able to teach others. As Kana Seiko Haruki said in one of the posts, a master is a normal human being which never looses the desire to learn and improve oneself for the good of others and make this world a better place.

We could put it this way: you call the one that gave you birth \"mother\". This is a rank. Before she gave birth she was a woman, she didn't knew how it feels and what it means to be a mother unless she had a child. This goes the same with our ranks: when you join in you know few things or maybe nothing about jediism. Later on as you learn your perception about life and other matters change, the ranks are there to remind of who you were and where you reached.

I personally see ranks as a tool to help new members and make the bound between members stronger. For instance when I will be called Master I wouldn't feel any different from what I feel now (it will just make me remember always about my duties and responsibilities I have towards the Temple and it's members)but I certainly know that a new member will come to me and ask for help because he/she would know that I am among those who know about TOTJO.

And yeah it's a matter of respect also. It's your choice if you want to use the ranks or not but I wonder if you would call your boss by his/her name, if you would call your school teacher by name and so on. As long as you see it JUST as a matter of respect you shouldn't feel offended yourself when others tell you to follow this simple rule and use the ranks.

Hope I managed to explain these things well as english is not my native language. Thanks for taking time to read this.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 26 Feb 2010 23:22 #29062

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
Yes you did Jaden very well indeed.
Founder of The Order

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 27 Feb 2010 22:48 #29068

  • Jestor
  • Jestor's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 3682
The comparrison to 'mother'... awesome..

VERY well done Jaden....
Rite: PureLand
Master: Master Jasper_Ward
Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Viskhard, DanWerts, Elizabeth, Edan

"Together, the teacher, and the taught, make the lesson." -- Eckart Tolle

Dan: "I have enough teachers."
Socrates: "Oh do you now? Whether you have a proper teacher or not, depends on what you want to learn."

Latest Posts Comments Articles
    • Father knocks out sons abuser. (Last post by Wescli Wardest)
    • Would I be able to control myself were I to walk in and find a similar situation in my house? To be quite honest, I don’t know. I will also be honest in saying that if I were not able to keep anger in check I would have probably not stopped with just a beating and would be arrested for murder. I believe a jury would acquit me after due process, but it would end up being what it would be. I like to think that like most parents I am very protective of my child.
    • Everything is Made of Energy Stuff (Last post by Adder)
    • Quote: So... if energy is conscious and aware (whatever the heck that means because with the ill, nay, sick non-definition of energy it could be literally anything and one might expect that consciousness and awareness are buzz words of the same nature), and we are an example of that, then wouldn't rocks be an example of energy being not conscious nor aware (unless the ill, nay sick non-definitions of conscious and aware are such as to allow for conscious and aware rocks, i suppose)? If we are arguing from examples, surely that must go both ways, and conversely, in order for it to only go one way the argument must be one that wouldn't rely on examples. If looking for useful definitions, an example might be 'conscious' being self aware, and 'aware' being aware of outside of self. The 'structure' of a rock is simple compared to an animal, and its rate, quantity and variety of change is, as a result, at a different temporal frame. By virtue of its simplicity that rock can last a million years, by virtue of our complexity we collapse near 100. The problem might be expecting some truth from a practise, when the practise is not about seeking truth primarily but improving the experience of reality to have a better and more rich truth. Funny thing is we are not really aware of what is outside of self, we are aware of our self interacting with outside which we interpret as outside! But for practical reasons it makes sense to split mental processing into different areas. One example would be to use a three tiered level of; * space realm - temporal, spirit * mind realm - corporeal representation, spatial * abstract realm - mental, emotional While its all the same system of awareness, it probably uses different circuitry in the brain. Some people might have an ability to integrate visual processing (like in dreams) to different senses to work with such concepts. I dont think anyone is trying to 'define' reality by doing this sort of thing, rather have a greater experience of it or try to refine the experience for some nature of benefit. I agree though we must stay firmly anchored in the science of reality, and for me Jediism does heavily incorporate science and scientific discovery to shape how we can better experience reality.
    • invitation to totjo (Last post by Jestor)
    • Quote: So who do I need to speak with to make a totjo episode happen? I need permission to make it happen and 3 members to commit to the episode. We can plan it for next Thursday or the Thursday after if need be. Show will be at 7pm eastern us time. TOTJO Members don't need permission... Or did I read that wrong? Maybe you needed permission? That line confused me, lol...
    • What are your opinions about euthanasia? (Last post by Adder)
    • My thoughts are it should be only allowed to people who have a terminal disease which is progressing, and has evident associated symptoms impacting quality of life. I know living is terminal too, but living is not a diseased state of living lol, hmmm. I don't think anyone should be forced to experience a painful terminal collapse of the body if that is what is happening to them. If someone does not fit my classification, and really wants to die, then they will find a way. Unfortunately for them, a solution to their manic depression, chronic pain etc might be around the corner, so if its not progressed and terminal, then all efforts IMO should be on survival at any cost. I have stuff in my medicine cabinet which can blow my flame out, so its not like it's impossible to do it. The issue isn't who should be allowed to end their own life, its about at what point can the medical establishment end someones life for them. It needs to also make sure it cannot be abused from within the medical establishment by staff working in grey areas of ethics or the shadows around the law. These are just my thoughts though, its a personal thing for the family who usually know the person best. Perhaps it needs to include close friends if possible who aren't beneficiary's to any monies or property to avoid manipulation, or long term care... so staff can make determinations about that persons character and falling quality of life - as oppossed to moods, mental state or psychological conditions. The dangerzone for this topic is the psychological side - when is a person 'capable' of making such a decision. Here there is a high profile story at the moment which has seen; Quote: "On 23 July 2014 the Australian Medical Board voted to use emergency powers to suspend his practitioner's license immediately, on the grounds that he presents "a serious risk to public health and safety". Dr Nitschke said he would appeal the suspension, which he claimed was "politically motivated"." because; Quote: "Perth man Nigel Brayley, 45, died in May this year after taking the euthanasia drug Nembutal, which he illegally imported. In emails obtained by the ABC, Mr Brayley admitted to Dr Nitschke he was not "supporting a terminal medical illness", but said he was "suffering". Now Dr Nitschke is being accused of moving into uncharted territory by agreeing to assist Mr Brayley despite knowing he was not terminally ill." source
    • Saber Smithing - What's Colour would you have and ... (Last post by ChaosMerdy)
    • Hey everyone! It's been a while since I posted here but I've stumbled across a bit of a hurdle while building my saber. I was actually wondering if anyone had any ideas as to how to craft a removable blade for mine? I have a plastic tube that I've adjusted to the correct length for the blade, but I'm not sure how to go about attaching it in a way that is removable. I'd like to be able to alternate between commemorative/ceremonial display piece and actual useable blade. Thanks in advance!
    • Live Service - Saturday 26th July at 2000 UTC (Last post by MCSH)
    • I'll be conducting a live service on Saturday 26th July at 2000 UTC. The sermon part of this live service would be available as a normal sermon for everyone to read. To find out what this time would be on your timezone click here.
    • Cognitive Dissonance - Your Thoughts (Last post by Rickie The Grey)
    • Well it seems to me knowing yourself: likes, dislikes, desires and expectations would be helpfull? Then knowing your limits while working to expand them would keep dissonance to a minimum? I think it's all about: living, learning and becoming a better person. Don't get hung up on your flaws and keep on keeping on.
    • Words Mean Things. (Last post by Jestor)
    • Quote: In type, you should strive to be more clear, if anything, as there is not context of voice inflection, body language, etc. In type, it much more easy to misunderstand something, hence, to be as clear as possible and non subjective with your words will open more doors then close them. Of course... But if I think I'm clear, and as clear as I can be, and still not getting through, it can't be helped... And, an individual should realize that not everyone is going to understand what someone else is saying so further questioning should be done...:) Quote: It goes against the argument of subjectivity really. Such as this... Would you explain? This is just another point where people get separated... The "prickly" people, and the "goo" people.... :lol:....
    • Still Around (Last post by Brenna)
    • It was really nice to see you Scott. Its been a while :)
    • Another XKCD- Answers (Last post by Vusuki)
    • Not sure where to put this- so thought I'd just add it here. Just a bit of a fun poke at star wars www.xkcd.com/1397/ Don't turn it on.
    • Unacceptable Casualties of War (Last post by Deepseablue)
    • Quote: Czech Airlines were not flying from Seoul to Prague above Ukraine. Only above Russia. We have arrived safely in Prague. Good for you! I wouldn't have wanted to be anyone anywhere near Ukraine in the days after the "crash."
    • Well, I thought I would make a few suggestions... (Last post by Proteus)
    • The shoutbox was a 3rd party code which ren was managing when he was admin but took it down after the site's update due to some kind of compatibility or functional issues and never finished fixing it back up. Whatever its condition was when he left, I forgot, but I can check and see if there's anything we can do about it.

There are 292 visitors, 4 guests and 25 members online (one is in chat): Octagon, Jestor, Nakis, Adder, Wescli Wardest, Darren, Desolous, Psyddhattha, Luthien, rugadd, Alexandre Orion, Rosalyn J, Arcade, Brenna, Buvan, Llama Su, Archon, zeronycon, wesleycook74, jasonwilkins, Jamie Stick, Jer-Pen Dan, Calanon, Cabur Senaar, TambelSadera, Carrotunlimited.

Follow Us