Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight

Moderators: Adder, Desolous

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 23 Feb 2010 04:17 #29012

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
Sweet Baby Jesus!
Founder of The Order

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 23 Feb 2010 05:43 #29016

OK Tatsujin - firstly - I NEVER once said wiki was authoritative - never have and never will, im fully aware of its open source operation - as are most if not all our readers (or at least the adult readers) - I said its accurate.

There are hundreds of possible sources for this information, including the main scouting group website.

Im English born n bred - so if it makes you feel cosy inside - lets put it this way - Im giving the english historical version of the founding of the scouting movement - which funnily enough happens to be the nationality of Powell.

Another point - I dont see any 'grey area' in terms of the history - we're talking late 19th/early 20th century here - not several hundred years ago.

Neither did I once say the scouts and military are the same - you dont seriously think im that ignorant do you? This temple has DOZENS of active service personal, from all the forces from many nationalities - and as many if not more ex-servicemen/women. TOTJO also has regular interaction with the military for various reasons - and whilst I personally have not served - every generation of my family up to the current HAS served King/Queen and country - and has so dating back some 800+ years - im well aware of how the military functions thank you.

As a side note - linked to above point about language - I went somewhat out of my way to 'defend' you or at least put it to everyone else that perhaps youd been misunderstood - im starting to think 'why did I bother'

Have you had enough of the masters in this thread because you dont like being challenged over your statements?

To be blunt - a number of your posts have been quite abrasive - generally I put this down to language differences and the limitations of text conversations - I tend to cut everyone slack (when they are new or reasonably new) just in case its 'new comers defensive syndrome' or something - yet in an earlier post, you said

Tatsujin wrote:
If anything would make me want to leave, it's being put in a position to explain myself any time I affirm what the order is doing because someone is used to being assailed by people who don't get it.

yet your doing exactly this to others time n again.

Youve also said your seen as opinionated/snobby etc - have you wondered why this is? Perhaps lines such as this

Tatsujin wrote:
The third thought that crosses my mind is that I'm an intellectual who can post with clarity and defend myself well. This comes off to most people as being overly opinionated and snobby, so I can gather that when combining the three thoughts would result in people not reading what I'm writing and assuming their way through.

will explain this.

Your not the only one to have run many sites, your not the only one with any level of intellect but from the little I have experienced of you thus far is mainly your guilty of everything your pointing at others for. Most of the longer standing members here treat 'attacks' like water off a duck back- everyone has a different perspective of everything, one persons 'fact' maybe another's fantasy - history is written by the victors as they say.

I certainly am not going to disagree with your final line.

So back on topic - I think in terms of ranks etc - those who are 'rank haters' maybe have not quite thought about what the rank means. Just because one does not appreciate why another has a rank or title should not mean that they have no respect to the individual. Of course, respect is a mutual thing, but if your in a place (physically or otherwise) where ranks are used - it is only good manners to use the appropriate titles etc. You would expect a 'guest' in your home to treat you with respect and abide by your rules - so its simple course to do the same - be it in a home, public building, website or other place.

From what ive seen elsewhere - the main cause of problems in this regard is lack of understanding of what the title or rank means - with the knowledge of what they mean and what the function of the title and or individual - one can often avoid looking foolish or worse - ignorant.

Yes, respect is two way traffic - but someone has to 'go first' - so by showing the appropriate respect - youll be off to a good start in a given situation. As said, there will always be the little hitlers - but they are easy to identify, just keep calm and polite but dont fuel their rage or ego - if necessary, walk away - it takes at least two to fight ;)

As a final note - I have one irritation in terms of ranks and titles - its folks who (as an example) INSIST on being called 'Major' or whatever - when the last time they were in active service was in WW2. OK, they earned the rank in the military at the time, but military and civilian life is very different - most civies wont understand the ranks anyway and its especially maddening to see/hear elderly 'Majors' (again an example) get cross with say a 20 year old for not using the title. Whats the point? they will have only legitimatly had the title for a couple or so years anyway and once out of service - is the 'rank' theirs toi use anyway?

Would a serving soldier now, follow an 'order' from a guy who was a major 60years ago? I very much doubt it - so why do such folk think others should treat them differently. If you really want the name used - get your name changed by law (deed poll in the UK)

This really does only serve to feed the ego of the title holder - and at the end of the day - its only a word, a badge - it has no actual value and like money - you cant take it with you.

Everyone is equal in death and within the force ;)


Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Feb 2010 23:48 #29039

Wow Tatsujin you really carried this a long way since I was last on.

Maybe we should withdraw from this subject or change the subject?
Rahm Kota: "The Force is strong in you my boy, to be able to sense my thoughts..."
Cheshire Cat: Different denotes neither bad nor good, but it certainly means 'not the same'!

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 25 Feb 2010 00:11 #29040

  • stevef
  • stevef's Avatar
  • Knight
  • ID: 535
been on and off for a while, and I just noticed a clever post saying lets be respectful and call people by rank or title.
Wow, for a simple point this thread got really complicated... scouts and the UK and the military!

here's my rule of thumb and it seems to make sense:
if They are a master Call them Master X. I use the username in shout and the forums. If they are an apprentice call them Apprentice X or I think Padawan is acceptable to most. or Brother or Sister.
Knights Sir Madam or Brother Sister
If you and them are the same rank Brother or Sister is fine.
If you don't know and are too lazy to find out Brother or Sister.
Ya we can use the full title or multiple titles but it's less about who's what than being respectful of all of us. let me say that again, it's about respecting your fellow jedi.

if you look at the films, all the jedi were called by a title even by Palpatine, who hated them and wanted to destroy all jedi. If he can bite the bullet so can we.

but maybe I'm too simple to be in this conversation.


Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 25 Feb 2010 23:15 #29054

  • Jaden
  • Jaden's Avatar
  • Guest
  • ID: 1092
I been reading the whole thread and I would like to bring my small contribution in, saying what I think about ranks.

First of all I never see the rank, I see the person behind it and use the rank to get an idea about the amount of knowledge and work that person had until now. For instance I am an apprentice and it describes exactly what I am: a person that has more to learn in order to be able to teach others. As Kana Seiko Haruki said in one of the posts, a master is a normal human being which never looses the desire to learn and improve oneself for the good of others and make this world a better place.

We could put it this way: you call the one that gave you birth \"mother\". This is a rank. Before she gave birth she was a woman, she didn't knew how it feels and what it means to be a mother unless she had a child. This goes the same with our ranks: when you join in you know few things or maybe nothing about jediism. Later on as you learn your perception about life and other matters change, the ranks are there to remind of who you were and where you reached.

I personally see ranks as a tool to help new members and make the bound between members stronger. For instance when I will be called Master I wouldn't feel any different from what I feel now (it will just make me remember always about my duties and responsibilities I have towards the Temple and it's members)but I certainly know that a new member will come to me and ask for help because he/she would know that I am among those who know about TOTJO.

And yeah it's a matter of respect also. It's your choice if you want to use the ranks or not but I wonder if you would call your boss by his/her name, if you would call your school teacher by name and so on. As long as you see it JUST as a matter of respect you shouldn't feel offended yourself when others tell you to follow this simple rule and use the ranks.

Hope I managed to explain these things well as english is not my native language. Thanks for taking time to read this.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 26 Feb 2010 23:22 #29062

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
Yes you did Jaden very well indeed.
Founder of The Order

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 27 Feb 2010 22:48 #29068

  • Jestor
  • Jestor's Avatar
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 3682
The comparrison to 'mother'... awesome..

VERY well done Jaden....
Rite: PureLand
Master: Master Jasper_Ward
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Elizabeth, Edan, Brenna

"I do not demand your faith; I am not setting myself up as an authority. I have nothing to teach you - no new philosophy, no new system, no new path to reality; there is no path to reality any more than to truth. All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."~Krishnamurti~

Latest Posts Comments Articles
    • Jedi Knight in one word (Last post by Brenna)
    • Quote: See, to me, I have been around the community since before 2000. I have seen, debated, argued, discussed and taught "The Big Picture" for many many years ^_^ So it is not that I do not see it or know it. I do. I quite like this quote: Quote: “Simplicity is about subtracting the obvious and adding the meaningful.” ― John Maeda, The Laws of Simplicity: Design, Technology, Business, Life Great discussions guys! Keep it up! I like this one "The Tao which can be expressed in words is not the eternal Tao" So if you're not trying to teach the big picture now, what are you trying to teach us with this particular game?
    • New Star Wars comics (Last post by Goken)
    • Is anybody reading the new Star Wars comics from Marvel? I read the first issue of Star Wars and, while I normally think that Jason Aaron is overrated as a writer, I loved it. I feel like he really got the dialogue right. I could hear the actors saying those lines and they fit. It made sense and was really well done. I forget who the artist was (typical, I know) but the art was fantastic, way better than the Dark Horse artist. I'm very excited for more. I'm intrugued by the idea of solo Darth Vader and Leia serieses. I think that Leia is a mini series written by Mark Waid (current writer for Daredevil) which means it could be good. She could be good in a mini but an on going series when she's a main character in the main comic might be too much. Vader is really cool but I'm not sure what they're going to try to do with him as the main character. I'm worried that they'll try to make us too sympathetic towards him at a point in the timeline when we don't yet know his history (the new comics take place between episodes IV and V at the moment).
    • General reading question (Last post by Alan)
    • The Tolkien translation is probably wonderful. I don't know. Those who know better than I have recommended A New Verse Translation by R. M. Liuzza, Broadview Press, 2000. Liuzza is another Oxford scholar. I used the most excellent Introduction as the basis for a World Mythology lesson plan...then we watched The 13th Warrior. I'm looking forward to doing it again this semester.
    • Is it possible to change so that you don't recogni... (Last post by Goken)
    • It's entirely possible, in fact, I think its a good thing. If my child self saw me and could tell instantly that I was him grown up then my life didn't branch out much. (unless I was much smarter than I think I was and could figure it out. LOL) My fiance and I frequently talk about how much we've changed in the time that we've been together. How much we've grown as a couple and as individuals. Then we look at how much we've changed since we met (seven years prior to our first date). We both know that there is no way we would have worked out back then because of who we were. (I was rude, she was weird). Even something as simple as clothes. If you had told me two years ago that I would wear a tie five days a week, and enjoy it, I'd have laughed my head off. Now I feel weird on casual days at work when I don't have to wear a tie. Some times I do anyway. Change is growth, stagnation is death. I hope that I constantly surprise my past self and become different than I expect.
    • Do you have a loved one that has a mental illness?... (Last post by Goken)
    • My fiance has been diagnosed with anxiety issues (I'm sure there's a better word) and ADHD. The toughest part for me is that growing up my father taught me (not explicitly mind you, just through actions) that both of those things are simply weakness. That people with anxiety just don't have the strength to deal with their problems and ADHD is an excuse for bad parenting. This causes a lot of tension between my fiance and myself when she has anxiety attacks because, as much as I know in my head that it's a real problem that she can't just make go away, there's still that part of me that just doesn't understand what's going on and still sees it as a weakness that should have been trained out of her long ago. My reaction to people I meet with depression is somewhat similar. Please note that I do know that that view point is wrong and I am currently doing everything I can to train myself out of that feeling. What I've learned from dealing with this is that the best thing that you can do is be there. Sometimes they don't want you to be, some of those times you should leave and some of those times you should stay, the hard part is figuring out which is which. That's different for everyone. You have to find triggers, both good and bad. Then you can avoid the bad triggers and try to set off the good ones. Example, my fiance absolutely hates seeing dirty dishes, even if I'm abviously still eating the dinner that was made in those dishes. She's also convinced that shes the only one that ever does the dishes even though that's not true. If I know that she's had a bad day at work the first thing I do when I get home is do the dishes. Also, if we've been at home all day on a weekend she freaks out, so I make sure that every time we have a full day off we get out of the house, even if it's just for a walk. (I think that she's mildly claustrophobic and being enclosed for too long freaks her out). One of the hardest aspects of this is that your efforts will not be recognized every time, but you have to remember that you do it for them and not for yourself. Seeing them feel better should be it's own reward. I also hole heartedly agree with Burn Pheonix. Be sure to take time for yourself. Good luck.
    • Video Games Promoting Nationalism and War? (Last post by Goken)
    • When I used to work for Best Buy parents used to ask me about violent video games all the time. I would always steer them towards the more unrealistic ones that involved aliens and lazer guns because it created a clear cut line between the game and reality. Parents seem to like that answer, the people who make Call of Duty do not. :laugh: Personally I find that I have a hard time playing a game when I don't agree with the motives of the character I'm playing. When I was young I didn't have this problem as much, but even when I played Grand Theft Auto all I did was start wars with the other gangs and protect my turf and the people in it. I was more of a vigilante than a gangster. In games where I'm given the choice between "good" decisions and "evil" decisions I usually do one play through as good and then try to be bad the next and it never works for me. I seem to have difficulty escaping who I am. One of my all time favorite games is Total War: Shogun 2. I will play that game for 12 hours at a time if nothing inturrupts me or shows me a clock. But even in that game I have trouble starting a war with another faction if they haven't first wronged me in some way. I sometimes lose because I haven't gained enough territories. Believe it or not I had a point when I started this post. :laugh: I guess I'm just saying that I understand not wanting to be the bad guy even in a fictional world and not enjoying playing a game that seems to focus on sensless violence just for the sake of violence. Give me an epic quest to save the world and some obvious bad guys that I don't have to feel too bad for killing though and it's game time!
    • LucasArts games on GOG (Last post by Arcade)
    • Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II, Star Wars: Republic Commando, and Star Wars: Starfighter were added today.
    • Jedi Sentinel Findings (Last post by Daniel L.)
    • "As heaven and earth are my witness(as I stand before the creator and man kind on earth), I will strive for knowledge and wisdom with the five senses and beyond the five senses. I will strive for love of all man kind and there will be no needless shedding of blood. I bow not in submission but in respect to you and I extend the hand of respect and friendship to you and I look towards the creator for divine guidance. I am trained to be a warrior with wisdom if my peace and friendship is rejected. I stand in symbolism for I serve only for the creator, my tribe, and my family and I owe no allegiance to any foreign king. With my hands and heart I cherish the knowledge my instructor has given me for it is my life in combat. I am prepared to go against you even if your skill is greater than mine and if my body falls to you in combat you have defeated only my physical body for my fighting spirit and soul rise to the heavens for they are unconquerable " -SiFu Dwight Woods
    • From time to time a poem (Last post by Proteus)
    • she shines in a world full of ugliness she matters when everything is meaningless fragile she doesn't see her beauty she tries to get away sometimes it's just that nothing seems worth saving I can't watch her slip away I won't let you fall apart she reads the minds of all the people as they pass her by hoping someone can see if I could fix myseld I'd - but it's too late for me I wont let you fall apart we'll find the perfect place to go where we can run and hide I'll build a wall and we can keep them on the other side ...but they keep waiting ...and picking... it's something I have to do I was there, too before everyhting else I was like you - NIN (The Fragile)
    • Native American Jedi... tribes, skills, get to kno... (Last post by Wescli Wardest)
    • Hahahhaha RyuJin and I have the same name! :woohoo: Wescli Wardest Running-Wolf Black Foot, Sioux Irish American Hunting, tracking, leather working, drum and flute making, beading, knapping, cord making, bowyer fletcher (as it is called in Europe), horsemanship… and a myriad of other things. Basically, I love the outdoors. And I am very fond of heritage and native skills and crafts from most every peoples.
    • What's the difference between hunting and buying m... (Last post by OB1Shinobi)
    • its serendipitious to me that you mention human/virus c connection i have a theory id love to share iv been saying this theory for a while and no ines been able to counter it to satisfaction my theory is not that we ARE a virus but thst we are INFECTED by a virus virus may not be an exactly appropriate word but its definitely accurate for purposes of explanation its not a symbiote which binds us to the force its a virus which seperates us from it ?
    • Rants far and wide (Last post by Kohadre)
    • Quote: OK, so I know this is generational and you young ones will give me some sort of excuse like..." But that's the way our generation does it", but.... I DON"T OWE YOU ANYTHING! WHO THE F*&%%$$ DEITY DIED AND LEFT YOU AS*)&%%LES IN CHARGE? WE ALL CAME INTO THIS WORLD WITH NOTHING, AND THAT'S THE WAY WE ALL LEAVE THIS WORLD! IF YOU WANT TO BE RESPECTED, RESPECT OTHERS FIRST! THIS ENTITLEMENT GENERATION ARE NOTHING BUT FOOLS, ARROGANT, IGNORANT, AND LACKING ANY SKILLS TO SEE THE WORLD IN FRONT OF THEM! DON'T BE ONE OF THEM! Like retirement? My generation seems to understand the "we're fucked over scale" pretty well, it seems the previous ones still think they deserve something (even if they paid into it)
    • The Grateful Thread (Last post by elizabeth)
    • I am grateful that people understand my crazieness... Here's to all the crazy ones :) Thank you

There are 395 visitors, 9 guests and 41 members online (3  in chat): Akkarin, Br. John, Zanthan Storm, steamboat28, Shadouness, Jestor, Jedi_Roz, 666, Kitsu Tails, Joe, Phortis Nespin, Connor L., Adder, Desolous, Proteus, Rosalyn J, Elemental Harmony, tjoseguera, MCSH, Alastor, Arcade, Brenna, Llama Su, Archon, Kamizu, Edan, Silvermane, Senan, Zenchi, peace, Jamie Stick, dorianwallacemusic, Janice, Blue Star, Goken, Culla, Ryno, RaB, Fenton, Kameron, SGaelach, Bbydoll, WazupDoge, obi-wan_k, Relyt Dagor, Star111176, Arminas, Ramadeus.

Follow Us