Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight

Moderators: Adder, Desolous

Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 10:09 #28224

  • Jon
  • Jon's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Novice
  • ID: 1798
An Official-in-waiting who had just rented a house in Hufangqiao Road in the capital was informed, “A fox lives in this house. You will not be disturbed if you offer a sacrifice before you move in.” Being a tightfisted man, he refused, but nothing unusual happened when he moved in. Shortly afterward he married a concubine. Received into his house on the wedding day, she was sitting alone in the room when she heard dozens of whispering voices outside the window commenting on her looks. Bashfully she kept her head lowered. When they went to bed that night after blowing out the candle, the whole room was suddenly filled with giggles. The moment he made a move, it was described in a loud voice. Several nights passed like this. Unable to bear it any longer, he went to a Taoist priest asking him to exorcise the fox. After hearing him out the priest said, “Only when a demon has harmed people can I invoke the heavenly gods to seize it and punish it. If the demon has merely been playing a prank without causing much harm, there is no need for divine intervention. Likewise, the government does not take any action against someone for playing a prank without causing real trouble. How can you bother the gods with such a trivial matter?” At the end of his rope, the official-in-waiting offered a sacrifice and libation to the fox. That very night his room became quiet. He said with a deep sigh, “Now I understand the importance of social etiquette!”

Now I know this is not going to go down well with a number of people here, but I am going to take that risk any way out of the simple fact that we are TEMPLE OF THE JEDI TEMPLE and not called for example PALS INCORPORATED. All of us are here to broadern our horizons; some wish even to learn the Jedi way, be knighted and even hope to guide others as Masters. So just as we take people`s desire to learn seriously so should those who have worked hard to carry the title of Master be addressed as such whether in shout, forum or PM (unless expressed otherwise by the addresse). For a long time this has been in use, was possible and still is the case.
Jediism - "Without religion, we'd have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Stephen Weinburg
The following user(s) said Thank You: steamboat28
Last Edit: 24 Jan 2010 10:11 by Jon.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 11:11 #28226

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
There is almost nothing that makes a person seems crass and undignified as a lack of simple manners. I finished college in my forties and new some of my teachers as friends and customers. Even though we were on a fist name bases and some were younger than I - in class I always addressed them as professor or with the proper title.

Being from the South I'm steeped in the virtues of Southern Hospitality and for good measure my Mothers family are all from Sibley. There are just things that a genteel person does not do or does do as the case may be.

And what Master Jon is telling you sir, young lad, lady ,little miss is that this is for YOU not for him.

If you want to be respected as a Jedi much less as a decent human being a little magic goes a long way.

Anyway you don't want the thrill of one day perhaps being invited to be on a first name basis - do you?
Founder of The Order
The following user(s) said Thank You: steamboat28, PatrickB

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 11:27 #28227

  • Tiamat
  • Tiamat's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • ID: 1369
Rather interesting and pointed post Master Jon. Like Br. John I too was raised with the \"SouthernL hospitality and from time to time get corrected by my mum and grandparents when I speak of their friends without the honorific Mr. Or Mrs. I understand that but also understand it is becoming a trait that is lost on the younger generations. Which is unfortunate. These people who are older or have earned their rank should be addressed as such, unless otherwise directed by that person.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 13:41 #28229

  • RyuJin
  • RyuJin's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Knight
  • Priest
  • ID: 3037
Tiamat wrote:
Rather interesting and pointed post Master Jon. Like Br. John I too was raised with the \"SouthernL hospitality and from time to time get corrected by my mum and grandparents when I speak of their friends without the honorific Mr. Or Mrs. I understand that but also understand it is becoming a trait that is lost on the younger generations. Which is unfortunate. These people who are older or have earned their rank should be addressed as such, unless otherwise directed by that person.

i was raised in the backwoods south where most people didn't like mr. or mrs. when in their presence i would address them in the manner they requested. i used mr. or mrs. when dealing with my teachers, in college i call my professors by professor unless they say otherwise but use mr. or mrs. when talking about them to someone else. growing up no one around me ever thought it to be disprespectful to call someone outside the family by first name as it made them part of the family. it was simply a matter of judgement on whether mr. or mrs. was needed in a particular situation...in the end it's a matter of personal preference from the individual that determines how they're addressed. :)
I do not need a cloak of darkness, I am darkness and I am light. I am both because the universe is both.
sometimes you have to enter the darkness to save the light
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
J.l.lawson, knight, b.div, o.c.p
Intake officer, Eastern Studies S.I.G advisor
Former masters: GM KanaSeikoHaruki, Br.John
Current Apprentices: Raikoutenshi, Zenchi, Baru

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 14:11 #28232

The rule only tends to hold true for those who:
  1. ...have something to lose (rank, title, etc.).
  2. ...should know better because it's been explained to them.
  3. ...have an example to follow.
I thank you, Grand Master Jon, my Master, for keeping this open for posting. Though I am neither making a demand nor trying to \"run the show\" or anything like that, these were what I was taught and the seem (to me) be reasonable.

However, the above rules suggest that the responsibility lies in those who are ranked addressing one another by rank, even equals. But there is a danger that I see, as well. It is the attachment to the title and rank, and its associated power and authority. While I will do as you ask, could you respond to this aspect, so that I might understand it better?

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 14:30 #28233

  • Jon
  • Jon's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Novice
  • ID: 1798
I have noticed that you have proposed this issue of attachment to titles very often RedHeron, which from my point of view indicates that you have some kind of issue with or experiences involving titles. I am not aware of any personal attachment to titles or fears of loosing it, so unfortunately I am unable to respond to that. What I am really afraid of loosing is my job and not being able to feed my daughter or provide a good education. I can however tell you about the amount of commitment, time and money invested in TOTJO which involves being a Master, the less obvious side which doesn`t seem to be the cause of much thought or scandal. As I already said this is Temple of the Jedi Order, a Jedi spirituality, a Jedi system of philosophy, which (as FAQ) clearly explains includes yes titles but also their DUTIES. Everyone of us is a guest here in a house if you like, this is a priveledge and not a right. Or which house do you walk into and dictate the way things are to be run because you don`t like it? It is all about respect, understanding why we are here, giving as much as we can for the benefit of others and keeping your feet firmly grounded on the floor of reality.
Jediism - "Without religion, we'd have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Stephen Weinburg

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 14:37 #28234

  • Tiamat
  • Tiamat's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • ID: 1369
Apprentice Redheron, if I may a moment. Most of us Masters, Knights relgate the notations of rank with one another for in past issues it has confused new members and has often been the cause of disrespect.

I can tell you from my POV, I request new members to address me by my title until I and they have come to know one another. Not out of basis for rank or title but out of basis for respect. After a time the rank becomes a nonissue with those that have known each other. For instance when I speak with your Master, I call him by his name and the same with Br. John for we have built a repoire of friendship. This is not meant to create attachments to titles or rank, but with an Order this size, a line of \"succession or order\" is necessary.

Many here holding rank do not tend to naturally hold their titles for it is just that a title. It is the actions and words of those members who define them and not their rank.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 14:58 #28235

The issue with attachment to titles is indeed an experience of my own. I have both seen and (regrettably) committed abuses because of such attachment in the past (and luckily, was able to somewhat remedy the damage when I realized it). But I also tend to follow the examples I am given (point #3 on the list I wrote). I have explained my understanding and beliefs; it was not my intent to make a demand, but to understand the demand which has been made, and to avoid my own issues with regard to titles and ranks. It was not intended as an affront, or to disrespect the obvious level of commitment you have.

My question is still unanswered, Master Jon, and so I'm going to try to rephrase it:

How are we to proceed without attachment to a title, if titles of rank are the primary means of address?

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 15:14 #28236

  • Tiamat
  • Tiamat's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • ID: 1369
I have taken no disresect from this post, but find that clarity of the knowledge or answer you seek to be a good thing. If one is to understand one just needs to ask, but bear in mind it may not always be the answer you sought.

Re:Grand Masters, Masters, Senior Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 24 Jan 2010 15:59 #28241

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
The attachment to titles question is reasonable and there's an answer.

Attachment to titles by masters there may be in some but it's about helping students develop new good habits or reminding them of old ones. A Jedi has a certain dignity that includes being a pleasant person.

It's a small token to ask and even smaller to pay folks who are helping you get something at no cost or demand.

Founder of The Order
Latest Posts Comments Articles
    • Thinking about the 8th teaching. (Last post by Alexandre Orion)
    • Quote: Quote: All are free to reply to these types of threads by Mr Hannigan here... However, before any of you do, a reminder to those who already know and to those who are new here and don't yet know, I simply offer a disclaimer: What you reply with here will very likely be either 1. ignored, 2. twisted into a petty retort usually including a personal attack or 3. taken apart with only the most unimportant bits quoted to use for #2 or otherwise. If you are highly bored and willing to go through becoming personally upset by this member whom you don't actually even know in person and who's words may or may not be worth the trouble for, be my guest. Otherwise, I simply suggest moving along to discussions where your input has a better chance of being considered and respected. Eitherway, just make sure you know for SURE whether or not you feel it is worth it to reply. If no one tries to help him, I do not care if I will be ignored, I do not care if people try to twist me, I do not care if someone tries to attack me with words. Just try to tell, if I do not try to understand him, and if I would ignore him for simple not being able to give it a neutral look.. who would I be than? Could I forgive myself for that? Even if you are right about your post, but I guess that I am a little bit pigheaded I guess.. :blush: Bend Absorb and reflect, - Aqua We care, Aqua ... :) As it were, many of us have sat through this play before ... We know how it ends. We know what goes on in the middle too. :pinch: Michael -- Stop it. You cannot "irritate" people into better physical fitness. You can't intimidate people into making health/hygiene choices. In fact, you just make it worse. What you say/imply is nothing less than shaming. This sort of physical fitness evangelism is not a testimony to the benefits - or the sanctity - of health, it is simply another attempt by you at one-ups-manship. If you would place as much value on mind and spirit as you do the physical (and ... you know, you won't get to keep that -- you are mortal too) then you might not permit yourself this sort of insulting insinuation. How do you know how many out-of-shape people are in the TotJO ??? The only way you could would be the same way we do : by when they tell us about it -- and that is usually when they are talking/asking about what/how to do something about that ... Jedi do not shame people -- we may provide examples that may or may not be followed. My apprentice was kinder to you than I'm going to be. Until you have developed your compassion, your empathy, your patience and simplicity ... please spare us your physical fitness/martial arts song and dance that isn't even compelling. ;)
    • The Grateful Thread (Last post by Kamizu)
    • I am grateful for my six month old daughter's lesson. No matter how badly the days have been, it is fun to just growl and roar out loud together . :D great stress relief!
    • Martial Arts: Your interest? (Last post by Johno)
    • Quote: Quote: Telekinesis? :dry: Who might be teaching this? I am seeking.. I found a place but I said that I am going to heal my chakras first and my kundalini. I learned that the temple of salomon use that to build it and some special tech too. I am sure the Force going to show the way. First post here and on a topic I've been reviewing lately as I'm jumping back into martial arts after dropping it for a while due to limited time and conflicting priorities. I stumbled on "Systema" a Russian form that seems to have a strong esoteric side and appears to be able to do take downs without touching the opponent. I don't know about that but after considering and weighing everything I'll likely take up Savate again (Boxe Francaise and Savate Defense/ Canne). Good holistic and realistic form born in the Paris slums over 200 years ago. Described as the thinking man's combative; graceful, brutal and effective.
    • Rants far and wide (Last post by Edan)
    • Congratulations! You have succeeded where many have failed in making me so angry I am literally shaking with it. How dare you be so cruel, and if any of my cats turn up dead I know on whose doorstep to leave their bodies! You who told me there is 'nothing you could do about them' but you've already done something so bloody cruel! You didn't want to admit it so you lied to me. I hope you feel good about yourself! You better hope I don't see you for the rest of the weekend, cos if I do you are getting this rant directly to yourself with additional swear words!
    • Addiction Check-In Thread (Last post by OB1Shinobi)
    • ive gone through alcoholism, smoking cigarettes, and shooting both heroin and methamphetamine at different stages of my life i lived on the street for about four years total - including in tents out in the woods and blankets under bridges now coffee and occasional proccessed foods are my biggest vices i am fully behind this thread and am available to any one of you if youd like to talk PM me any time EDIT and congrats to Talariq for making the decision and congrats to Conner for your progress, its very commendable and best wishes to both of you
    • Wonders of our Doctrine.. (Last post by ren)
    • Quote: I wonder.. If the philosophical roots in the movies and Jediism are the same? The Doctrine tells us that Jediism and 'Star Wars' share almost the same philosophical roots. Do you think it is written correctly? -Jediism finds its roots in philosophies that did not make it to star wars. And some of the philosophies that made it to star wars did not make it to jediism. -Jediism evolved in a way that occasionally contradicts star wars, for example: The first sentence of the doctrine says: Jediism is a religion based on the observance of the Force, a ubiquitous and metaphysical power that a Jedi (a follower of Jediism) believes to be the underlying, fundamental nature of the universe. Star Wars says: "Life creates it, makes it grow". "life creates it" is an uncommon belief nowadays. Some believe that they can grow their personal force (a concept not found in star wars and directly imported from buddhism) and the living force (that's the force created by life; more life = more force). The universalist point of view (as adopted by the doctrine) stipulates the force is everywhere and responsible for the existence of everything, a very pantheistic view, with any other force concepts, objects, "souls", etc being avatars/manifestations of the force. With this often comes a belief that the Force is some kind of energy that does not grow but mutates (like any other energy). The star Wars force can be likened to chi, the jediism force is more like the tao or brahman.
    • Humble and Egotist (Last post by efuller18)
    • And in some cases you are actually encouraged to behave like an egoist. On the way back from a conference one of my professors and I had a conversation about what you need to do to suceed as a woman in computer science and academia in general. We also talked about the differences she sees in female students and male students. What she basically said was you have to be confidant in the extreme. You have to project the belief even if your not that you are the absolute best programmer/researcher in your school. She said a lot of female students don't project that kind of confidence which is on the edge of pure arrogance. She asked me how I would rank myself against my fellow students and I said I have no idea. She said most of her male students would say they were great in comparison. It was the first time I had ever really heard someone saying that having the attitude that there is always more to learn is a bad thing and that projecting that attitude could have negative consequences for your career. Apparently, being humble is not an advantage when it comes to a scientific career.
    • HEMA, what is it? (Last post by RyuJin)
    • despite my heritage i've never really felt a connection to european fighting arts...i've always been drawn to the east asian arts...and i've been studying them since i was 8 years old....so 31 years now.....man i'm old.....
    • Jedism hippies? (Last post by Aqua)
    • If I would ask: ,,How can I know that different hippies like the same kind of music.'' Jestor would have asked: ,,What is music?'' If I would ask: ,,How can rules affect a faith?'' Jestor would have asked: ,,What is affection?'' When Jestor asked himself: ,,Why is Aqua trying to type what I think?'' Aqua would have said: ,,Knowing the mind of a person is not harder than expressing yourself.'' Just wondering.. what would happen if all people would give equal value to the same principles or rules? Would we still be able to separate an individual from a group? If principles are so important for groups, why is it that we find it so difficult to express the line between ourselves and others groups? How can it be, that understanding our self is just as difficult as understanding a group? :blush:
    • saber build (Last post by RyuJin)
    • once the parts arrive i'll be using this thread as a sort of tutorial.... my old ultrasaber was never oiled....6years and going and it still opens just fine...the body for my new build wasn't oiled either and it doesn't stick....but i'm constantly opening both sabers.....worst case scenario i'll use some oil from my gun cleaning kit....
    • Posting Pictures (Last post by Jestor)
    • Quote: So if I'm understanding you I using my phone to access the internet and the forum so it will upload right from my phones picture album? Yes? Yep...

There are 591 visitors, 8 guests and 49 members online (3  in chat): Akkarin, Br. John, Sarus, Alethea Thompson, steamboat28, Firewolf, Jestor, ren, Kitsu Tails, Adhara, Proteus, Locksley, Xaii, Alexandre Orion, PatrickB, Arcade, Llama Su, Archon, Kamizu, Degataga, Edan, Pyrus Erath, peace, Venator Mortis, carlos.martinez3, Calanon, Goken, Aqua, focone oceanlast, GalUnDrux, Tarran, Rocda, Tk768, MrBruno, Krieger, asteropos, MaGnA CrYsTaL, WayneTec, Adi Vas, BartMc, Neorian, Willa, MarkBrereton, Stroke, theta, kaay, MeliKnowles, FriendlyLion, Tellahane, Jamacam, alegolas.

Follow Us